"JR" on Bray Wyatt losing at Battleground: "It's laughable."

[JTH]

If you think the loss is devastating to Bray Wyatt that is...



Granted I get where JR is coming from, obviously he knows more about the business than all of us combined, but Jericho pinned Wyatt cleaner than Cena did at Mania for crying out loud. Much respect to JR, but there was still no reason to do it in that manner.

[4TheGlory]

JR is still a company man despite not even being in the company.

[Topher is Human]

Completely agree with JR there, also for MANY reasons Jericho absolutely had to go over in their first match.

1. Jericho had JUST come back, after a previous stint where people complained that all he did was lose. So he needed a big win to show that he's still "top tier"
2. The entire build to the match was Wyatt completely destroying Jericho, calling him a phoney etc. Jericho never once got the physical advantage.
3. The plan was clearly to build to Summer Slam, which is much bigger than Battleground. If Jericho lost both times, it would be very hard for Jericho to convincingly put over other stars down the track, and if Jericho wins at Summer Slam after Wyatt won at Battleground, more people would remember the fact that Jericho won the "big one" and forget that Wyatt won the first match.
4. You could argue, that due to the nature of the Codebreaker's execution that Jericho snuck out a flukey win.
5. Based on the Smackdown Spoilers

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}Jericho wins a match that bans Rowan from ringside, stands to reason he will win another match that bans Harper from ringside meaning it will be Jericho going 1 vs 1 against Wyatt with no shenanigans, so either Wyatt wins cleanly without any interference, making him look like a beast that conquered Jericho (who now looks a bit stronger) OR they can debut a new member to cost Jericho the match making Wyatt's Cult Leader presence even stronger.

Jericho might be one of my all time favourites, but even so, the booking makes sense.

[JTH]

Jul 30, 2014 21:36:09 GMT -5 Topher is Human said:

Completely agree with JR there, also for MANY reasons Jericho absolutely had to go over in their first match.

1. Jericho had JUST come back, after a previous stint where people complained that all he did was lose. So he needed a big win to show that he's still "top tier"
2. The entire build to the match was Wyatt completely destroying Jericho, calling him a phoney etc. Jericho never once got the physical advantage.
3. The plan was clearly to build to Summer Slam, which is much bigger than Battleground. If Jericho lost both times, it would be very hard for Jericho to convincingly put over other stars down the track, and if Jericho wins at Summer Slam after Wyatt won at Battleground, more people would remember the fact that Jericho won the "big one" and forget that Wyatt won the first match.
4. You could argue, that due to the nature of the Codebreaker's execution that Jericho snuck out a flukey win.
5. Based on the Smackdown Spoilers

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}Jericho wins a match that bans Rowan from ringside, stands to reason he will win another match that bans Harper from ringside meaning it will be Jericho going 1 vs 1 against Wyatt with no shenanigans, so either Wyatt wins cleanly without any interference, making him look like a beast that conquered Jericho (who now looks a bit stronger) OR they can debut a new member to cost Jericho the match making Wyatt's Cult Leader presence even stronger.

Jericho might be one of my all time favourites, but even so, the booking makes sense.

Here's the problem though.

One your 1. That's what RAW and Smackdown are for, give Jericho wins there and then a PPV loss doesn't look as bad and builds a Wyatt win as more meaningful.
2-5. Once again, as I've said. If they're booking a feud, and the point is to lead to Summerslam, DON'T BOOK THE MATCH UNTIL SUMMERSLAM. It's the same problem with Rusev/Swagger, build to first match to Summerslam if they want to keep both guys strong instead of a ridiculous countout finish @ Battleground.

This is the whole problem with these meaningless PPVs. Let them feud with other guys at Battleground and give them wins on PPV while obviously still showing a build to a Summerslam encounter.

[cabbageboy]

Battleground was a useless PPV that did more harm than good. Here's one thing that JR isn't taking into account: The Wyatts have lost all sorts of momentum anyway. Bray Wyatt is coming off losing to Cena decisively in a feud (what's that about losing the battle to win the war?). He wasn't a factor at MITB. And he just attacked Jericho only to lose to him. Sorry, but at this point even if he stomps Jericho does it really mean much? Last year Jericho jobbed to Fandango but ultimately beat him in a blow off to that feud, but who really remembers that?

They could have done a DQ finish with Harper/Rowan doing a run in, or Bray could have beaten Jericho with a chair, etc.

[Kevin Hamilton]

Having Jericho go over CLEAN was still pretty dumb. You could have him win in such a way that it wasn't just him pinning Bray.

That said, in the scheme of things, the Jericho feud is gonna/has done FAR less damage than the Cena one anyway; or indeed just booking dude like an ineffectual cult leader that doesn't really have any effect on anyone he feuds with.

[Rick Mad]

If he beat Jericho in the first match it does NOTHING for Bray. No one would say "Oh wow Bray Wyatt beat Chris Jericho holy shit!" they'd say "Bray beat that guy that always does returns to put people over, big whoop" and it wouldn't mean anything. Having Jericho go over first and then have Bray have to get the win back makes the most sense.

When you continuously bring guys back just to have them put others over, eventually they aren't putting anyone over at all, they're just losing. Letting Jericho win a major match made eventual losses more important.

[Kevin Hamilton]

See I don't think beating Jericho will do anything for him either. Long term, this feud will be utterly meaningless.

[Deleted]

Jul 30, 2014 22:49:19 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

Having Jericho go over CLEAN was still pretty dumb.

I think this criticism is more a byproduct of WWE's narrative that only losers lose. It seems less acceptable here because whenever WWE's sacred cows get together they rarely let a guy lose without some kind of caveat where he didn't really lose. Really all their first match was, was a case of Jericho being the better man that night. I think it was smart to have Jericho win because almost everyone here was cynical that he wouldn't get a thing in this feud.

Jul 30, 2014 21:50:26 GMT -5 JTH said:

One your 1. That's what RAW and Smackdown are for, give Jericho wins there and then a PPV loss doesn't look as bad and builds a Wyatt win as more meaningful.
2-5. Once again, as I've said. If they're booking a feud, and the point is to lead to Summerslam, DON'T BOOK THE MATCH UNTIL SUMMERSLAM. It's the same problem with Rusev/Swagger, build to first match to Summerslam if they want to keep both guys strong instead of a ridiculous countout finish @ Battleground.

This is the whole problem with these meaningless PPVs. Let them feud with other guys at Battleground and give them wins on PPV while obviously still showing a build to a Summerslam encounter.

Yeah but who could Jericho beat on Raw or Smackdown that's gonna make them think he can beat Wyatt? They're not gonna feed Orton to him, beating a Cesaro or Del Rio isn't gonna fool anyone. Jericho winning that first match now makes things less predictable because we now know it's in the cards for Jericho to win a big match and make the nearfalls in the Summerslam match more compelling than they would be otherwise.

[berlynwright]

the feud has been dead boring for weeks now, and i'm a big fan of Jericho's work.

[Hit Girl]

The feud has run out of steam. Now we'll see Jericho face the henchmen before facing Bray again and probably losing, before winning the decider


Then rinse and repeat for Bray, the least effective cult leader in history

[BigJerichool222]

What a misleading thread title; makes it seem like JR was against Bray losing.

[Mayonnaise]

Jul 30, 2014 22:58:19 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

See I don't think beating Jericho will do anything for him either. Long term, this feud will be utterly meaningless.

Like everything else he has done since the HBK feud which makes him beating Bray clean all the more stupid.

[TOO SWEET]

Jul 30, 2014 22:58:19 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

See I don't think beating Jericho will do anything for him either. Long term, this feud will be utterly meaningless.

As far as his character/momentum/popularity, I agree.

But what I think JR was alluding to is that by working with Chris, Bray will have a chance to get a bit stronger in the ring (which is his real weakness right now) and learn from a true veteran that understands the subtle ways to get the crowd cheering/booing. Personally, it kind of sucks seeing Bray's momentum getting slowed down right now but it might be beneficial in the long run to help Bray become a big star in the company.

So yeah, as far as fans are concerned... this is probably going to be a pretty useless storyline. Bray is pretty sure to win the blowoff and none of these Jericho matches are going to make a real difference for him either way. But for Bray, it could go a long way to developing the tools necessary to be a total package.

[JTH]

Jul 30, 2014 23:27:11 GMT -5 BigJerichool222 said:

What a misleading thread title; makes it seem like JR was against Bray losing.

That was the point.

[Kevin Hamilton]

Jul 30, 2014 23:12:38 GMT -5 @nichotine said:

Jul 30, 2014 22:49:19 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

Having Jericho go over CLEAN was still pretty dumb.

I think this criticism is more a byproduct of WWE's narrative that only losers lose. It seems less acceptable here because whenever WWE's sacred cows get together they rarely let a guy lose without some kind of caveat where he didn't really lose. Really all their first match was, was a case of Jericho being the better man that night. I think it was smart to have Jericho win because almost everyone here was cynical that he wouldn't get a thing in this feud.

Jul 30, 2014 21:50:26 GMT -5 JTH said:

One your 1. That's what RAW and Smackdown are for, give Jericho wins there and then a PPV loss doesn't look as bad and builds a Wyatt win as more meaningful.
2-5. Once again, as I've said. If they're booking a feud, and the point is to lead to Summerslam, DON'T BOOK THE MATCH UNTIL SUMMERSLAM. It's the same problem with Rusev/Swagger, build to first match to Summerslam if they want to keep both guys strong instead of a ridiculous countout finish @ Battleground.

This is the whole problem with these meaningless PPVs. Let them feud with other guys at Battleground and give them wins on PPV while obviously still showing a build to a Summerslam encounter.

Yeah but who could Jericho beat on Raw or Smackdown that's gonna make them think he can beat Wyatt? They're not gonna feed Orton to him, beating a Cesaro or Del Rio isn't gonna fool anyone. Jericho winning that first match now makes things less predictable because we now know it's in the cards for Jericho to win a big match and make the nearfalls in the Summerslam match more compelling than they would be otherwise.

Again though, win now or win later, there's gonna be no benefit to Bray. Even if you go with the 'the feud will give him more tools in the ring' thing; that part could be accomplished the same, win or lose.

It's not so much the Jericho loss, as it is Bray hasn't won, really, since Royal Rumble. He's looked like a guy that can't get the job done that entire time.

[BigJerichool222]

Jul 31, 2014 4:00:03 GMT -5 JTH said:

Jul 30, 2014 23:27:11 GMT -5 BigJerichool222 said:

What a misleading thread title; makes it seem like JR was against Bray losing.

That was the point.

THAT'S AGAINST THE RULES, BRO.

I SHOULD (ross) REPORT YOU RIGHT HERE AND NOW

[Abdullah]

Let's not talk about the Jericho loss.

It was the Cena feud that damaged Bray.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

AS GOD AS MY WITNESS, BRAY WYATT HAS BEEN BROKEN IN HALF!!

[Mozenrath]

Jul 30, 2014 23:23:27 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

The feud has run out of steam. Now we'll see Jericho face the henchmen before facing Bray again and probably losing, before winning the decider


Then rinse and repeat for Bray, the least effective cult leader in history

*coughStraightEdgeSocietycoughcoughSeratonincough*