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Post by ________ has left the building on Aug 1, 2014 18:35:47 GMT -5
Yeah. I know it's a bit hypocritical but I don't think he's any good. To me, Bull brings nothing to the table except a means for WWE to say "See? we DON'T push/hire guys based on their looks/physiques". Well there's that Bray Wyatt fella who won't be winning any hardbody or beauty contests whose getting a good push.
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NXT Cuts
Aug 1, 2014 18:37:42 GMT -5
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 1, 2014 18:37:42 GMT -5
Yeah. I know it's a bit hypocritical but I don't think he's any good. To me, Bull brings nothing to the table except a means for WWE to say "See? we DON'T push/hire guys based on their looks/physiques". Well there's that Bray Wyatt fella who won't be winning any hardbody or beauty contests whose getting a good push. It helps that he actually has talent.
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Post by Mondai Rogue on Aug 1, 2014 18:44:51 GMT -5
Well there's that Bray Wyatt fella who won't be winning any hardbody or beauty contests whose getting a good push. It helps that he actually has talent. Bull's not terrible though. I like them, more than the original Last of the Dying Breed.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Aug 1, 2014 18:46:44 GMT -5
Well there's that Bray Wyatt fella who won't be winning any hardbody or beauty contests whose getting a good push. It helps that he actually has talent. Here's the thing, having a great body doesn't equal getting a push anymore in WWE. Talent, luck, and having the faith of management does. Bull got his supporters and getting a chance to shine. He may succeed. He may fail. But people are writing him off before he can show what he can do. Haven't been on the show for 2 months and folks are already calling for his head. I bet if he didn't show up on NXT and got fired, the narrative would be different.
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NXT Cuts
Aug 1, 2014 18:49:13 GMT -5
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 1, 2014 18:49:13 GMT -5
It helps that he actually has talent. Here's the thing, having a great body doesn't equal getting a push anymore in WWE. Talent, luck, and having the faith of management does. Bull got his supporters and getting a chance to shine. He may succeed. He may fail. But people are writing him off before he can show what he can do. Haven't been on the show for 2 months and folks are already calling for his head. I bet if he didn't show up on NXT and got fired, the narrative would be different. Better guys, both those who have been fired and some of them who are still employed, have been written off before they could show what they can do.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Aug 1, 2014 18:54:57 GMT -5
Here's the thing, having a great body doesn't equal getting a push anymore in WWE. Talent, luck, and having the faith of management does. Bull got his supporters and getting a chance to shine. He may succeed. He may fail. But people are writing him off before he can show what he can do. Haven't been on the show for 2 months and folks are already calling for his head. I bet if he didn't show up on NXT and got fired, the narrative would be different. Better guys, some of them who are still employed, have been written off before they could show what they can do. That's how things go. I had friends who were consider football standouts in high school go to college and proceed to ride the bench. A couple of them didn't even get to play in a game even if it was a blow out. Not everyone will get the spotlight. Tito Santana was more talented than Hogan and Savage but he stayed in the midcard. George South put over some people who were garbage in the ring for decades.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 19:01:12 GMT -5
Here's the thing, having a great body doesn't equal getting a push anymore in WWE. Talent, luck, and having the faith of management does. Bull got his supporters and getting a chance to shine. He may succeed. He may fail. But people are writing him off before he can show what he can do. Haven't been on the show for 2 months and folks are already calling for his head. I bet if he didn't show up on NXT and got fired, the narrative would be different. Better guys, both those who have been fired and some of them who are still employed, have been written off before they could show what they can do. This makes you seem like a hypocrite, because your posts are always have an undercurrent of "this is what's fair and right for the talent, give everyone a chance", but then a guy you DON'T like, all of a sudden it's "nope, just cut him".
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NXT Cuts
Aug 1, 2014 19:05:17 GMT -5
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 1, 2014 19:05:17 GMT -5
Better guys, some of them who are still employed, have been written off before they could show what they can do. That's how things go. I had friends who were consider football standouts in high school go to college and proceed to ride the bench. A couple of them didn't even get to play in a game even if it was a blow out. Not everyone will get the spotlight. Tito Santana was more talented than Hogan and Savage but he stayed in the midcard. George South put over some people who were garbage in the ring for decades. Tito Santana is a former Intercontinental Champion and is now in the Hall of Fame. He got to shine on some level and is remembered fondly by fans. Most of these guys that WWE brings in and casts off won't get that kind of treatment because they don't get to make "memories" or "moments" for the fans Plus WWE is throwing away more money by hiring them only not to use them than they would have if they never hired them to begin with. They just needlessly waste money hiring guys they aren't going to use, then fire them and put the black cloud of being "rejects who can't hang in the big leagues" over their heads.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Aug 1, 2014 20:12:58 GMT -5
Better guys, some of them who are still employed, have been written off before they could show what they can do. That's how things go. I had friends who were consider football standouts in high school go to college and proceed to ride the bench. A couple of them didn't even get to play in a game even if it was a blow out. Not everyone will get the spotlight. Tito Santana was more talented than Hogan and Savage but he stayed in the midcard. George South put over some people who were garbage in the ring for decades. This. Again, as said before in the thread- NXT being on the Network has a problem for developmental, shining a light on some people who need more time to develop's weaknesses and treating a developmental promotion like a legitimate show, leads to problems. I've said before that NXT needs to be looked at more like how Triple-A baseball would in the US, and this is the example: In the minor leagues- just getting drafted doesn't guarantee you a major league job, and it's the same for WWE. These guys may have had potential, but in the end...they were given more of an opportunity to show their stuff than thousands of other wrestlers will ever get. They flame out in developmental, they flame out...they still got their chance, even if they didn't make it to an NXT ring.
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Post by craigdanbeaton on Aug 1, 2014 20:26:45 GMT -5
f*** me, man. Everyone's been going nuts (justifiably) waiting for Crowe to debut? Well that was me with Shaun Ricker. Ever since I first saw him I thought he could make it big in WWE. He has such star quality, but he never even made it on NXT TV. I'm so disappointed. But I'm not going to play the "THEY FIRED MY GUY BUT THIS OTHER GUY GETS TO KEEP HIS JOB?!?!?" game. It really is a shame though. I was hoping for big things from Garrett Dylan too. Yeah this sums up my feelings pretty well, ever since I first got introduced to Shaun in The Hero I've been waiting to see him on WWE TV, that man had some fantastic charisma.
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Mr T L Wolf
Hank Scorpio
He has the looks of Andre the Giant, and the strength of Barry Windham. Not to mention he's a hero to a few armadillos, a kangaroo and a small herd of bison.
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Post by Mr T L Wolf on Aug 1, 2014 20:26:56 GMT -5
I won't be surprised to see guys like Bronson and Baron Corbin go. If I were to predict one of the bigger names going, I'd say Graves, if he can't wrestle any more. Damn, is Graves injured that badly? Last I heard he had gotten another concussion, and rumor mill was he might not wrestle again, so yeah.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Aug 1, 2014 20:27:01 GMT -5
Garrett Dylan is a really sad story, like, imagine being brought into WWE, fired, then rehired, only to be fired again. It just messes with your head. And then of course you have the guys who don't even make it to TV, so they have no real name to go back to the indies with, even with something as little as being on NXT on the WWE Network.
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 10,990
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Post by Sparkybob on Aug 1, 2014 20:41:08 GMT -5
That's how things go. I had friends who were consider football standouts in high school go to college and proceed to ride the bench. A couple of them didn't even get to play in a game even if it was a blow out. Not everyone will get the spotlight. Tito Santana was more talented than Hogan and Savage but he stayed in the midcard. George South put over some people who were garbage in the ring for decades. Plus WWE is throwing away more money by hiring them only not to use them than they would have if they never hired them to begin with. They just needlessly waste money hiring guys they aren't going to use, then fire them and put the black cloud of being "rejects who can't hang in the big leagues" over their heads. I'm not 100% positive, but I'm very sure HHH isn't hiring these guys with the intent of never using them. There will be special cases like KENTA/Steen etc who will get the stronger spotlight early on, but the rest of the guys and gals are in a competition against each other. There are very limited slots for NXT, so the WWE checks these new guys out for 2 months and determine specific traits they have. Like how good is their work ethic, how coach-able they are, how smooth they are in the ring, what type of ideas do they pitch for their gimmick etc. 90% of these guys and gals are all fighting to prove to the WWE that they have all the qualities needed to be on TV. Just like any competition there will be losers and these guys who are cut are a sad result of that. But to say after a month or 8 weeks that the WWE can't figure out if this guy has the makings of someone who will make them some money is a bit naive. Can Hunter and company make a mistake? Absolutely but they have enough tapes and reports to figure out who they feel is the bottom feeders of NXT.
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Aug 1, 2014 21:34:10 GMT -5
Plus WWE is throwing away more money by hiring them only not to use them than they would have if they never hired them to begin with. They just needlessly waste money hiring guys they aren't going to use, then fire them and put the black cloud of being "rejects who can't hang in the big leagues" over their heads. I'm not 100% positive, but I'm very sure HHH isn't hiring these guys with the intent of never using them. There will be special cases like KENTA/Steen etc who will get the stronger spotlight early on, but the rest of the guys and gals are in a competition against each other. There are very limited slots for NXT, so the WWE checks these new guys out for 2 months and determine specific traits they have. Like how good is their work ethic, how coach-able they are, how smooth they are in the ring, what type of ideas do they pitch for their gimmick etc. 90% of these guys and gals are all fighting to prove to the WWE that they have all the qualities needed to be on TV. Just like any competition there will be losers and these guys who are cut are a sad result of that. But to say after a month or 8 weeks that the WWE can't figure out if this guy has the makings of someone who will make them some money is a bit naive. Can Hunter and company make a mistake? Absolutely but they have enough tapes and reports to figure out who they feel is the bottom feeders of NXT. Yep, this 100%. I feel like every other week I'm on fan debating with CATCH_US about treatment of talent. And this quote above sums it all up perfectly. It's how WWE works, period, end of story. It's a competitive business and the strong survive and every day they need to up their game. And we people who sit on our couches and watch WWE on TV or sit in our basement and surf the internet and read reports, we have NO clue what is going on behind the scenes. But rest assured, HHH & Co are watching. And based on their signings over the last 4-5 years, clearly they know what they're looking for.
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Post by RadcapRadsley on Aug 1, 2014 22:12:47 GMT -5
I wonder how many more people working for WWE will get fired before a single perosn in upper management get's even a tiny paycut.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Aug 1, 2014 22:15:08 GMT -5
I won't be surprised to see guys like Bronson and Baron Corbin go. If I were to predict one of the bigger names going, I'd say Graves, if he can't wrestle any more. Bronson? He's been gone for a while
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Aug 1, 2014 23:00:33 GMT -5
I'm not 100% positive, but I'm very sure HHH isn't hiring these guys with the intent of never using them. There will be special cases like KENTA/Steen etc who will get the stronger spotlight early on, but the rest of the guys and gals are in a competition against each other. There are very limited slots for NXT, so the WWE checks these new guys out for 2 months and determine specific traits they have. Like how good is their work ethic, how coach-able they are, how smooth they are in the ring, what type of ideas do they pitch for their gimmick etc. 90% of these guys and gals are all fighting to prove to the WWE that they have all the qualities needed to be on TV. Just like any competition there will be losers and these guys who are cut are a sad result of that. But to say after a month or 8 weeks that the WWE can't figure out if this guy has the makings of someone who will make them some money is a bit naive. Can Hunter and company make a mistake? Absolutely but they have enough tapes and reports to figure out who they feel is the bottom feeders of NXT. Yep, this 100%. I feel like every other week I'm on fan debating with CATCH_US about treatment of talent. And this quote above sums it all up perfectly. It's how WWE works, period, end of story. It's a competitive business and the strong survive and every day they need to up their game. And we people who sit on our couches and watch WWE on TV or sit in our basement and surf the internet and read reports, we have NO clue what is going on behind the scenes. But rest assured, HHH & Co are watching. And based on their signings over the last 4-5 years, clearly they know what they're looking for. It's fallacious to say, "Well, a successful company is doing it, so these practices must be part of what makes them successful." We have no way of knowing how successful they'd be if they didn't do these things. Personally, I cannot think of a way that this could possibly be a good strategy. They're hiring people knowing that a certain number of them are going to get weeded out? WANTING them to get weeded out? How on earth does the math work out to have that be worth it? They don't hire a given individual knowing they won't use them, but they do know they won't use some of the people they hire, so how is that not throwing money down the drain? (This is even leaving aside whether it's a moral way to treat your employees or not. It's not.) I gotta say, I've had a number of these kinds of conversations here myself, and I find it really interesting that people often, when taking this point of view, use terms like "the strong survive" almost as value statements. It's like people WANT it to be some kind of dog-eat-dog competition. I wonder if it just goes along with a particular way of seeing the world. It's one that makes no sense to me, but it might just be a fundamental thing.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Aug 1, 2014 23:19:51 GMT -5
Remember most of these people are brought in to be developed into something, not to be put right into NXT and on the road. WWE wants to see them make progress while working out at the Performance Center. They literally have cameras filming these guys and gals every move in Orlando so they can watch and see how they are coming along and if they are developing into something WWE can use, or someone better comes along pushing them down the list of ready guys, it makes all the sense in the world to cut them.
Yes, they are bringing people in and not expecting all of them to make it and it is perfectly fine. That is the nature of a development system.
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Post by They Killed the Giggler on Aug 1, 2014 23:21:22 GMT -5
Slate Randall is a funny name. Almost as good as Lift Sawyer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 23:33:26 GMT -5
Yep, this 100%. I feel like every other week I'm on fan debating with CATCH_US about treatment of talent. And this quote above sums it all up perfectly. It's how WWE works, period, end of story. It's a competitive business and the strong survive and every day they need to up their game. And we people who sit on our couches and watch WWE on TV or sit in our basement and surf the internet and read reports, we have NO clue what is going on behind the scenes. But rest assured, HHH & Co are watching. And based on their signings over the last 4-5 years, clearly they know what they're looking for. It's fallacious to say, "Well, a successful company is doing it, so these practices must be part of what makes them successful." We have no way of knowing how successful they'd be if they didn't do these things. Personally, I cannot think of a way that this could possibly be a good strategy. They're hiring people knowing that a certain number of them are going to get weeded out? WANTING them to get weeded out? How on earth does the math work out to have that be worth it? They don't hire a given individual knowing they won't use them, but they do know they won't use some of the people they hire, so how is that not throwing money down the drain? (This is even leaving aside whether it's a moral way to treat your employees or not. It's not.) I gotta say, I've had a number of these kinds of conversations here myself, and I find it really interesting that people often, when taking this point of view, use terms like "the strong survive" almost as value statements. It's like people WANT it to be some kind of dog-eat-dog competition. I wonder if it just goes along with a particular way of seeing the world. It's one that makes no sense to me, but it might just be a fundamental thing. I think your last point is it really, I have strong feelings about making things fair and all my ideologies tend to sit behind that, often to the point where my hardline beliefs of workers rights and skills makes me feel a bit down for the guys who get cut down (even if I dislike the people it's happening to) even though I realize the current system won't allow 60% of the roster to be what they could be given a better environment. Sometimes I think some of us talk about the bigger picture (/Barrett) instead of the current state of the business/systems in place, we want better things for people overall even if that may not be best for profit lines in the companies eyes. I don't believe anyone on here is ever saying they want people to fail or be sacked for the sake of it, I think they're just the other side of the coin to those of us who talk about things when we believe they'd be better if they changed the damn system somewhat. Nobody is wrong, it's just it, long term possibilities vs short term reality.
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