Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 26, 2014 9:32:26 GMT -5
They don't really do Cena a ton of favors sometimes. He's booked like Bugs Bunny. Now, ask most adults. Do they like Bugs more, or Daffy? Most are going to say Daffy. Same goes for Spongebob and Squidward. That's why I always felt The Looney Tunes Show did more to help Bugs than hurt him. In some classic shorts he was so god-mode he made 80's Hogan look like Zack Gowen, so I enjoyed seeing him as a flustered straight man. SpongeBob's gone so downhill these days though, I'm pretty sure Cena would try to kill him after ten minutes. Bugs makes for a decent Jerry given the show is basically Seinfeld.
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Post by lesleymoon on Aug 26, 2014 9:39:28 GMT -5
I tend to think so, yes. Hear me out. Part of it is probably his fault but I think a lot of it is the powers that be. Because he is such a valuable commodity with merchandise sales, make a wish, etc that they aren't going to make him look too weak nor are they going to keep him off TV for any length of time. It's just not gonna happen. He is also their go to...so much that I think they are hesitant to push new stars because they tend to get screwed when they do, with injuries and what not. Look at D-Bry. Love the guy but his injury couldn't have come at a worse time. So what do they do? Go back to old reliable. Are you gonna hitch your wagon to the work horse or to the pony that you cant trust? They don't have a lot of choice. And its their fault for not building stars during Cena's ascension. So now I think it's kind of rock and a hard place now.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2014 9:41:54 GMT -5
They don't really do Cena a ton of favors sometimes. He's booked like Bugs Bunny. Now, ask most adults. Do they like Bugs more, or Daffy? Most are going to say Daffy. Same goes for Spongebob and Squidward. Do you go with the guy who always wins or the guy who always faces adversaty? In a relatable attribute discussion, people would rather see a guy realize what he has against him and knows what he is going to be dealing with, yet is willing to battle the problem even if they are gonna lose, rather than a guy who knows he's gonna win and is just gonna joke about it. I was hoping they'd have Cena take time off to sell this beatdown, but if the intention is to have Cena "overcome the odds" for the 9,000,000th time just so he could tie Ric Flair's record of 16 world championship reigns, then NOBODY wins. The problem here is that Cena has basically no-sold the beatdown he got at SummerSlam, which is what everybody feared. Also doesn't help that the Wyatts are far from recoverable as last night proved...
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"Magic" Mark Hurr
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Post by "Magic" Mark Hurr on Aug 26, 2014 9:46:26 GMT -5
Of course he is. Were he not as overexposed and as protected as he is, how could he not get Shawn Michaels/Ric Flair comparisons in terms of all the great matches he's had? I have no idea how responsible for his dominance he is, I imagine he does assert he wants to look strong but I doubt he's the one cutting off other guys' pushes. But him being the top guy for over a decade with no break, while understandably frustrating, has blinded a lot of fans as to how good the guy is. Well just in case, how do I get this to you
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 26, 2014 9:47:51 GMT -5
They don't really do Cena a ton of favors sometimes. He's booked like Bugs Bunny. Now, ask most adults. Do they like Bugs more, or Daffy? Most are going to say Daffy. Same goes for Spongebob and Squidward. Do you go with the guy who always wins or the guy who always faces adversaty? In a relatable attribute discussion, people would rather see a guy realize what he has against him and knows what he is going to be dealing with, yet is willing to battle the problem even if they are gonna lose, rather than a guy who knows he's gonna win and is just gonna joke about it. I was hoping they'd have Cena take time off to sell this beatdown, but if the intention is to have Cena "overcome the odds" for the 9,000,000th time just so he could tie Ric Flair's record of 16 world championship reigns, then NOBODY wins. The problem here is that Cena has basically no-sold the beatdown he got at SummerSlam, which is what everybody feared. Also doesn't help that the Wyatts are far from recoverable as last night proved... Does anyone really think Cena will win, though? The very popular assumption has been that Brock is going to be the top guy for a while, and crushing Cena a second time will probably solidify that, especially since Cena is one of literally less than 10 people who have ever pinned Brock, making him one the few people on a mark's radar capable of defeating Brock. When he fails to do it, people will know Brock's not losing that strap anytime soon. That said, obviously, WWE might not go that route, but pessimism doesn't always win the day. A lot of _was Wrong usernames are a solid reminder of that fact.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 26, 2014 10:26:22 GMT -5
To be fair, it took CM Punk leaving and a host of other things forcing their hand to lead to '... was wrong'.
But yeah, clearly Cena is a victim inasmuch as he is a really talented guy that actually deserves the majority of the audience behind him; but they just go about it the most bone-headed way possible.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 26, 2014 10:28:27 GMT -5
To be fair, it took CM Punk leaving and a host of other things forcing their hand to lead to '... was wrong'. But yeah, clearly Cena is a victim inasmuch as he is a really talented guy that actually deserves the majority of the audience behind him; but they just go about it the most bone-headed way possible. It's a good example of what bad booking is. Some booking, we can be pissed because our favorites get shafted or we see them as being used to prop up someone else, but when booking really is bad, like it has been to a degree lately, everyone comes out looking worse for it and no one is shown from a flattering angle.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 26, 2014 10:33:37 GMT -5
Of course he is. Were he not as overexposed and as protected as he is, how could he not get Shawn Michaels/Ric Flair comparisons in terms of all the great matches he's had? I have no idea how responsible for his dominance he is, I imagine he does assert he wants to look strong but I doubt he's the one cutting off other guys' pushes. But him being the top guy for over a decade with no break, while understandably frustrating, has blinded a lot of fans as to how good the guy is. Well just in case, how do I get this to you ...I don't get it.
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Post by hossfan on Aug 26, 2014 10:39:49 GMT -5
Cena's booking has made him a shitload of money and the most recognizable wrestling name of his generation, so no. The only cost its had for him is in earning the approval of some non-casual wrestling fans, which, in the general scheme of things, doesn't mean much in the real world.
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Post by Juice on Aug 26, 2014 10:47:31 GMT -5
He's not a victim because he has the power to change it, but doesn't. I would be inclined to agree, but then I remember Triple H humping a mannequin. Main eventers have limits to what they can veto. Ditto. It's play game or go home. A guy like Punk chose to go home. That's more proof in my mind.
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"Magic" Mark Hurr
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Post by "Magic" Mark Hurr on Aug 26, 2014 11:04:45 GMT -5
Well just in case, how do I get this to you ...I don't get it. My bad. I meant to quote this. I'm waiting until NOC to get a full answer. Here's a preview: If Cena goes into NOC acting like the same old douchebag LOL I WIN Cena and gets killed again forcing his character to actually admit total defeat and have it affect him in some way... I get it. It's new, it's different. If Cena goes into NOC acting like typical LOL I WIN douchebag Cena and beats Lesnar: I could puke alphabets on the floor and come up with better writing.
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ededdneddy
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Post by ededdneddy on Aug 26, 2014 11:14:30 GMT -5
Here is another problem with Cena and booking. You have a great setup for an emotional moment last night. Cena coming out during the pre-show should have been more poweful on him. The power and weight of what happened to him at Summerslam should've hit him at this very point. But instead, what do they do? Try to explain more exposition. And that is one of the many problems. Whether you're aware of the beating he took or not aware of the beating he took, Cena is all explanation with no humanity. Why do you think they waited til 8 days after Summerslam to have us hear from him about what happened? Because that's not what was most important to the Creative Team. The identity of Cena? Who gives a shit? It can't be nearly as important as explaining...and explaining...and explaining...and explaining.
I watched the main event last night and I was like....I DON'T F**KING CARE! And you know why? Because there was no emotions being addressed. Sure he looked like they were going to do something completely different with his beat down of Bray Wyatt but no they threw it away to make him continue to be a goodie goodie. What if they actually pulled the trigger and make him a crazed up person. Like if he pictured Bray as Brock Lesnar and literally bust up Bray to the point he is bleeding everywhere shocking the audience and tv audience that someone like him actually did something that he would never do, only to have him go outside and hug the kid in the front row and make that beatdown look like it never happened? Thats the problem with Cena. Creative and his creative control has made him so bland and unbelievable that even if he were to turn heel at this point the kids would still chant for him because they would just see it as he came up with a new mindset to beat Lesnar and then go back to being how he normally acts the following night.
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Post by The Ichi on Aug 26, 2014 11:52:01 GMT -5
Everyone else is a victim of Cena's inability to grow a spine and actually change things. How do we know if he has the power to? Top draw or not, HHH/Vince's word is most likely final.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Aug 26, 2014 12:10:00 GMT -5
Everyone else is a victim of Cena's inability to grow a spine and actually change things. How do we know if he has the power to? Top draw or not, HHH/Vince's word is most likely final. Yet it's been reported that Vince respects individuals who stand up and challenge his view, thus forcing him to actually think about what he's doing. Whether it's true or not, Shawn said in his book that he and Hunter were the ones who were the ones telling Vince that his past direction and ways of thinking sucked, the shows were boring and predictable, and a change needed to be made if they wanted to compete with WCW at the time.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2014 12:21:05 GMT -5
I no longer believe that Cena is completely innocent as he comes off in interviews. I don't really believe that Cena is so willing to step aside and all it takes is someone to take his spot. I know that a lot of my reasons are speculatory as hell but this happens way too often for me to believe now that Cena is just doing what he's told. Stuff like last night, that godawful "I'm tired of making mediocre look awesome" that made Miz look like a piece of shit for no good reason. Laughing in the face of all his challengers. I think some of it is the writing but I think Cena knows what he's doing too.
On Jericho's podcast he and Edge discuss how hard Cena fought for that shitty Nexus elimination match ending too which also lends to my opinion that he's more selfish than he lets on. The only time he seemed to appear to be throwing a bone to someone on his own volition was Zack Ryder which I almost believe in and of itself was a self serving move to make him look like he gives a shit, and knowing that he has nothing to be afraid of in Zack Ryder. He just puts so much gusto into things like last night's buffoonery that he comes off as more than just a guy following orders.
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ededdneddy
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Post by ededdneddy on Aug 26, 2014 14:34:01 GMT -5
Now hear me out. He's been booked strong forever and whatnot but I'm starting to think he hasn't been WRITTEN in a way that takes advantage of his strengths and whatever. He's obviously a good talent and had a big connection with the crowd in the beginning but the weird coddling and overprotection by the writing team is a real handicap. He could be a really interesting character with a great worker behind it. But....awkwardness at every turn. Another problem with Cena. Traditional storytelling is setting up a character, sending them on their journey, and learning more about them through their journey. Cena is just chess piece storytelling: Cena goes here, Cena goes there, Cena says this, pawn to king four. So when Cena coming out to talk about Summerslam was a scene that should've been the emotional pinnacle of our "main star", it's just more explaining about what happened rather than why it happened. So pardon me if, rather than be concerned when he comes out and buries The Wyatts for no reason, I ask that you remind me WWE Creative what you revealed about him that's worth giving any investment whatsoever. This isn't me being angry that it's different from what we normally get from Cena, this is me being angry that it's missing the most essential element of telling any story: if the character can never express any emotion, why should the audience ever express any emotion?
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Post by Sponsored by Groose Wipes on Aug 26, 2014 14:53:20 GMT -5
I think it's the whole reason why people hate the guy. I personals think Cena is pretty good in the ring and he should be one of the big draws for WWE, it's just bad booking has pretty much turned him into the lol cena wins guy we know and hate.
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Post by SAJ Forth on Aug 27, 2014 22:09:02 GMT -5
I think it's the whole reason why people hate the guy. I personals think Cena is pretty good in the ring and he should be one of the big draws for WWE, it's just bad booking has pretty much turned him into the lol cena wins guy we know and hate. Sums it up well
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silverplaquevii
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Post by silverplaquevii on Aug 27, 2014 22:42:54 GMT -5
Lets fit my views for this topic shall we?
From 2003-2008, Cena had good booking skills using his Thuganomics and Marine gimmicks respectively to increase his popularity. Those were shunned in favour of the superhero type gimmick because from my point of view, the WWE had to change course based on two criterias:
- The US TV-PG rating - The Georgia Athletic Commission's stricter regulations of pro wrestling after the Benoit tragedy in 2007.
Based on my theory, Cena's character is too stale thanks to the watered down product after Benoit died. Where is B2 when ya need him?
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 27, 2014 22:54:13 GMT -5
Not really. Hogan thrived in the PG era, and was never as one note even as the superhero character they're desperately trying to have Cena emulate. PG or not PG has nothing to do with it.
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