Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
Had one once
Everybody's Favorite Arizonian.
Posts: 31,072
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Sept 21, 2014 11:26:46 GMT -5
Is Jim Cornette responsible for why Mike Bennett is a thing? Initially yes. Damn you, Cornette!
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Post by ________ has left the building on Sept 21, 2014 12:03:37 GMT -5
If you want to see promotions that successfully blend the southern style with ROH style, look at CWF Mid Atlantic and Pro Wrestling Xperience. Most of the roster are standout talents who are getting booked on the bigger indies (Cedric Alexander, Trevor Lee, Adam Page, etc.) but they also have throwbacks who would fit in back in the glory days of the Crockett Promotion (Marcellus King, Ric Converse, Jake Manning). They mixed state of the art wrestling with old school mentality to create a product that pleases both demographics.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Sept 21, 2014 13:40:56 GMT -5
If you want to see promotions that successfully blend the southern style with ROH style, look at CWF Mid Atlantic and Pro Wrestling Xperience. Most of the roster are standout talents who are getting booked on the bigger indies (Cedric Alexander, Trevor Lee, Adam Page, etc.) but they also have throwbacks who would fit in back in the glory days of the Crockett Promotion (Marcellus King, Ric Converse, Jake Manning). They mixed state of the art wrestling with old school mentality to create a product that pleases both demographics. PWX is where Konley is pretty big right? Isn't Corino's son wrestling for them too?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 13:56:59 GMT -5
What a great thread, I feel bad for not having anything to add (so many likes...) but from the opening post to the last few this has been one of the best wrestling discussions I've seen on FAN in a few months.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 21, 2014 15:11:27 GMT -5
If you want to see promotions that successfully blend the southern style with ROH style, look at CWF Mid Atlantic and Pro Wrestling Xperience. Most of the roster are standout talents who are getting booked on the bigger indies (Cedric Alexander, Trevor Lee, Adam Page, etc.) but they also have throwbacks who would fit in back in the glory days of the Crockett Promotion (Marcellus King, Ric Converse, Jake Manning). They mixed state of the art wrestling with old school mentality to create a product that pleases both demographics. Yeah PWX is awesome, it's where I discovered Caleb Konkley and Zane Riley, amongst others. They have their niche, but Cornette didn't had the time to please both Demographics (smarks and casuals), Sinclair only cared about the casuals, and Cornette had to book a tv show and house shows, he didn't had the luxury of PWX of only airing a couple of times a month.
I think what hurt ROH was the same thing that hurt SMW, ironically enough, that they were too big to be small, but too small to be big, instead of protecting their homebase, they tried to go into new markets that didn't knew them, understandably so because Sinclair doesn't have tv stations in philly and NYC, as far as I know.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Sept 21, 2014 15:44:12 GMT -5
If you want to see promotions that successfully blend the southern style with ROH style, look at CWF Mid Atlantic and Pro Wrestling Xperience. Most of the roster are standout talents who are getting booked on the bigger indies (Cedric Alexander, Trevor Lee, Adam Page, etc.) but they also have throwbacks who would fit in back in the glory days of the Crockett Promotion (Marcellus King, Ric Converse, Jake Manning). They mixed state of the art wrestling with old school mentality to create a product that pleases both demographics. Yeah PWX is awesome, it's where I discovered Caleb Konkley and Zane Riley, amongst others. They have their niche, but Cornette didn't had the time to please both Demographics (smarks and casuals), Sinclair only cared about the casuals, and Cornette had to book a tv show and house shows, he didn't had the luxury of PWX of only airing a couple of times a month.
I think what hurt ROH was the same thing that hurt SMW, ironically enough, that they were too big to be small, but too small to be big, instead of protecting their homebase, they tried to go into new markets that didn't knew them, understandably so because Sinclair doesn't have tv stations in philly and NYC, as far as I know.
Sinclair had a former NWA guy leading the absorption who basically wanted ROH to be an old school wrestling tv show. Which Cornette was more than happy to give him. They were more concerned about providing tv content for the stations than caring on making money from the house shows, dvds, and merchandise sales. It basically took the overall business to drop, Cornette getting fired, and Hunter Johnson taking over for Sinclair to realize what Ring of Honor is really about and stuck to that. The current company format works which is pleasing to everyone involved. PWX is where Konley is pretty big right? Isn't Corino's son wrestling for them too? Yes and Colby Corino was wrestling for them as American Tiger. He hasn't been there for a while.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 21, 2014 16:19:13 GMT -5
oh yeah Gary Michael Capetta, Cornette called him his friend but still buried him on his "Breaking Kayfabe" shoot, just Jim being Jim, lol. But still I gotta defend Cornette, he wanted to keep running the smark markets but Sinclair preferred the tv markets, and the management didn't wanted to produce more dvds to sabe money.
I wonder if instead of the clone wars, Davey just would've defeated Tyler, how the landscape would've been.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Sept 21, 2014 19:33:21 GMT -5
Yeah PWX is awesome, it's where I discovered Caleb Konkley and Zane Riley, amongst others. They have their niche, but Cornette didn't had the time to please both Demographics (smarks and casuals), Sinclair only cared about the casuals, and Cornette had to book a tv show and house shows, he didn't had the luxury of PWX of only airing a couple of times a month.
I think what hurt ROH was the same thing that hurt SMW, ironically enough, that they were too big to be small, but too small to be big, instead of protecting their homebase, they tried to go into new markets that didn't knew them, understandably so because Sinclair doesn't have tv stations in philly and NYC, as far as I know.
Sinclair had a former NWA guy leading the absorption who basically wanted ROH to be an old school wrestling tv show. Which Cornette was more than happy to give him. They were more concerned about providing tv content for the stations than caring on making money from the house shows, dvds, and merchandise sales. It basically took the overall business to drop, Cornette getting fired, and Hunter Johnson taking over for Sinclair to realize what Ring of Honor is really about and stuck to that. The current company format works which is pleasing to everyone involved. PWX is where Konley is pretty big right? Isn't Corino's son wrestling for them too? Yes and Colby Corino was wrestling for them as American Tiger. He hasn't been there for a while. The current format works better and I think Delirious has a better idea of how to get the most out of the guys ROH want to push (like Bennett). I think there are still some issues but nothing they can't work through with time.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 21, 2014 19:42:35 GMT -5
The one thing I really hate that Cornette did, was shoving Mondo down everyone's throats. Man I don't think he last a lot there. I know Charlie Haas wasn't that great, but I popped when he and Shelton appeared as the mystery opponents for the Kings of Wrestling. Their theme was ACDC's "TNT", that match was f***ing awesome.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Sept 21, 2014 19:46:42 GMT -5
Yeah Mondo didn't work and what was even weirder was his feud with Bennett since the fans hated both.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 21, 2014 19:48:18 GMT -5
Yeah, he told Maria that he was gonna f*** her, but the crowd didn't care, if another babyface would've said it... Maybe the booking (Cornette and Delirious) wanted to exploit the Dolph Zigglerish type, obviously Dolph is way more talented.
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Ultimo Gallos
Grimlock
Dreams SUCK!Nightmares live FOREVER!
Posts: 14,363
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Sept 22, 2014 0:56:49 GMT -5
If you want to see promotions that successfully blend the southern style with ROH style, look at CWF Mid Atlantic and Pro Wrestling Xperience. Most of the roster are standout talents who are getting booked on the bigger indies (Cedric Alexander, Trevor Lee, Adam Page, etc.) but they also have throwbacks who would fit in back in the glory days of the Crockett Promotion (Marcellus King, Ric Converse, Jake Manning). They mixed state of the art wrestling with old school mentality to create a product that pleases both demographics. Two other feds that blend southern style and modern indy style are Wildkat Sports out of NOlA. And Powerslam productions out of Mid Mississippi.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 22, 2014 1:08:15 GMT -5
Isn't Wildkat run by Luke Hawkx? That guy is awesome, his promo delivery is like he doesn't gives a f***, wish he would get at least a look from roh.
Another controversial aspect that Cornette dealt with in roh was with Greg the Office Boy, I would like to know more about him and if he was truly the moron Jim said he was. Steen said that he was actually a nice guy, yet the Patrick Edwards guy says he's an asshole who started posting as him causing the fans to hate Edwards.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Sept 22, 2014 1:20:25 GMT -5
Well there's also how he doesn't get certain things. In his last KC shoot he just started ripping the Super Smash Bros because fans wanted them booked (this is when they were insanely hot in 2012 and 2013 before they had visa issues). No question was asked about them and Cornette just brought them up and said no one in their right mind would book them over Matt Hardy or Mike Bennett (debatable). I don't know the exact quote but it passed Stu and Uno off quite a bit Is Jim Cornette responsible for why Mike Bennett is a thing? Mike Bennett is still a thing? I didn't notice. Is his gimmick still "WWE Guy Parody/Stereotype"?
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Post by lildude8218 on Sept 22, 2014 1:24:38 GMT -5
my vision of Jim Cornette's ROH was "a bunch of bland white guys....even Shelton Benjamin"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 1:57:31 GMT -5
Is Jim Cornette responsible for why Mike Bennett is a thing? Mike Bennett is still a thing? I didn't notice. Is his gimmick still "WWE Guy Parody/Stereotype"? He's now "Guy Who Accompanies Maria's Ass To The Ring"
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 22, 2014 1:58:53 GMT -5
my vision of Jim Cornette's ROH was "a bunch of bland white guys....even Shelton Benjamin" You mentioned earlier than ROH has never been great at striking when the iron is hot. To me, Jim's ROH but also ROH in general is "Take pizza out of the oven and wait for it to cool down on a Monday, enjoy that pizza on Saturday afternoon."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 2:04:54 GMT -5
Is Jim Cornette responsible for why Mike Bennett is a thing? Mike Bennett is still a thing? I didn't notice. Is his gimmick still "WWE Guy Parody/Stereotype"? Not really. He's more just a cocky heel with a hot fiance. He's part or a semi-faction with Adam Cole and Matt Hardy (who I guess is done with ROH unfortunately) who basically think the world owes them everything. Yeah Mondo didn't work and what was even weirder was his feud with Bennett since the fans hated both. I thought Mike Mondo was alright. He could have pretty damn good matches I just hated his psychotic promos. He wasn't likeable at all. If he had developed/a better character I think he could have a place there still. Bennett on the other hand I don't think will ever get enough credit. His feud with Lance Storm was great. I would almost argue that they never went far enough with his WWE-bound gimmick. Having a guy calling himself a sports entertainer and aping on WWE tropes would get such killer heat. I think the fact that he already has the appearance of a WWE guy works to his benefit, makes him different in that universe, and his in ring work can keep pace/with the rest of the guys.
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lovingway
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Post by lovingway on Sept 22, 2014 5:21:24 GMT -5
Mike Bennett is still a thing? I didn't notice. Is his gimmick still "WWE Guy Parody/Stereotype"? Not really. He's more just a cocky heel with a hot fiance. He's part or a semi-faction with Adam Cole and Matt Hardy (who I guess is done with ROH unfortunately) who basically think the world owes them everything. Yeah Mondo didn't work and what was even weirder was his feud with Bennett since the fans hated both. I thought Mike Mondo was alright. He could have pretty damn good matches I just hated his psychotic promos. He wasn't likeable at all. If he had developed/a better character I think he could have a place there still. . I agree with Mondo. I think he could have done well in ROH had he not been seen as a Cornette guy coming from OVW.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 22, 2014 7:13:34 GMT -5
my vision of Jim Cornette's ROH was "a bunch of bland white guys....even Shelton Benjamin" You mentioned earlier than ROH has never been great at striking when the iron is hot. To me, Jim's ROH but also ROH in general is "Take pizza out of the oven and wait for it to cool down on a Monday, enjoy that pizza on Saturday afternoon." This. You're absolutely right. Tyler Black should've been champion 2 years before, he even complains about that on The Shields documentary. Same as Davey he was supposed to dethrone Black, not put us through the clone wars. I also want to put CM Punk on that list, on my opinion he should've been the one to dethrone Joe, but I'll concede that it worked for the best and giving him the title as he was about to leave was an awesome angle.
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