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Post by Main Eventer on Sept 19, 2014 13:16:24 GMT -5
Can we please give somebody the Troy McClain name? Its a pretty badass name, and it deserves better than being with a jobber.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Sept 19, 2014 13:27:25 GMT -5
WWE does hires women wrestlers along with the models and athletes. People want them to basically hire the Shimmer roster which they won't do for various reasons. For every wrestling newbie like Eva Marie and Cameron who struggle to pick it up, there are women who not only pick it up but strive like Summer Rae and Alexa Bliss. I have no problems with WWE hiring people who never done pro wrestling because a massive number of people we love started from scratch under the WWE umbrella. You never know who will become a superstar. Just like they shouldn't penalize someone who wrestled in the indies before coming to WWE. WWE will keep the same hiring practice of hiring women who fit their vision for Divas regardless of their experience level. I don't disagree with that. But as I said, there is a huge imbalance. I don't know what the number is after this most release but let's say NXT has, give or take, 15 women. Of those, only Bayley, Becky and Sasha have any prior wrestling experience. Last month, Bayley vs Sasha and Becky vs Charlotte were repeated often. Beyond that though, when we talk about Steen or Devitt being signed everyone can agree that it's a wise choice. No offense to the football players, no offense to the pretty boys most said, but it makes sense to sign someone with a following who already knows a lot. Why can't the exact same thing be said for women's wrestlers? This isn't about the main roster; they'll inevitably get misused there. But as long as Hunter is going to give the division 10-15 minute marquee matches, then he should hire at least a few more female performers that can handle the pressure; that can lift the newer workers. I get the logic of 'eh, we'll just use Emma or Nattie' to fill a spot but it doesn't mean I agree with it. WWE doesn't go after women wrestlers with a big fanbase except for the times they hired Awesome Kong and Paige. They prefer women wrestlers who are still relatively young in their career and/or women who can handle the physical and mental pressure of pro wrestling. And getting back to WWE's hiring practices, they don't just look for experienced talent. Even folks who been doing for a while and considered some of the best in their field don't get pass the screening process. Emma may did Shimmer but she wasn't considered one of the elite in that company. She was basically opening match material. WWE got some of the best trainers in the biz working with the women. Even experienced women wrestlers have flaws that have to be fixed and smooth out before tossing them out on tv. I seen way too many times that a woman who was good in the indies look lost as f*** on tv. I watch TNA and see Brittany who was hyped as a standout talent wrestle like a semi competent Rosa Mendes. While I wish they would hire ladies like Rosita and Dark Angel, they are going to keep up their current practices since it is what they are looking for and it delivers the desired results.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Sept 19, 2014 13:31:18 GMT -5
WWE does hires women wrestlers along with the models and athletes. People want them to basically hire the Shimmer roster which they won't do for various reasons. For every wrestling newbie like Eva Marie and Cameron who struggle to pick it up, there are women who not only pick it up but strive like Summer Rae and Alexa Bliss. I have no problems with WWE hiring people who never done pro wrestling because a massive number of people we love started from scratch under the WWE umbrella. You never know who will become a superstar. Just like they shouldn't penalize someone who wrestled in the indies before coming to WWE. WWE will keep the same hiring practice of hiring women who fit their vision for Divas regardless of their experience level. That's complete nonsense. Yeah WWe sure does hire a lot of female wrestlers except for the fact that they haven't signed one in about a year and a half. While they've signed countless model types. Compare that to the ratio of Male wrestlers that get signed and non-wreslting athletes and bodybuilders that get signed. In 2014 alone WWE has signed - Kenta, Kevin Steen, Devitt, Willie Mack. I don't think it's too much to ask for the WWE to sign 1 or twoindy women's wrestlers a year in place of one or two model signings. I mean since the WWE took a chance with a male Japanese star like Kenta, why not sign someone like Io Shirai who imo is prettier than most of the divas. Whose to say they won't do that down the line? See this is one of the problems of them hiring a bunch of indy and international standouts. Now people have a unreasonable standard when it comes to WWE hiring new talent. We went from WWE won't hire this person because they are a indy darling to WWE shouldn't hire this person because they aren't a big enough name to earn a contract.
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keezy
Dennis Stamp
full time slacker
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Post by keezy on Sept 19, 2014 13:34:17 GMT -5
Wasn't Kendell hired around the same time as Charlotte? Kendall never made it to TV as a wrestler while Charlotte is the divas champion and can put on a good match, no surprise.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Sept 19, 2014 13:35:55 GMT -5
McClain didn't have any wrestling experience either, why are we singling out Skye? Not part of the agenda.
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
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Post by Abdullah on Sept 19, 2014 13:36:18 GMT -5
I don't disagree with that. But as I said, there is a huge imbalance. I don't know what the number is after this most release but let's say NXT has, give or take, 15 women. Of those, only Bayley, Becky and Sasha have any prior wrestling experience. Last month, Bayley vs Sasha and Becky vs Charlotte were repeated often. Beyond that though, when we talk about Steen or Devitt being signed everyone can agree that it's a wise choice. No offense to the football players, no offense to the pretty boys most said, but it makes sense to sign someone with a following who already knows a lot. Why can't the exact same thing be said for women's wrestlers? This isn't about the main roster; they'll inevitably get misused there. But as long as Hunter is going to give the division 10-15 minute marquee matches, then he should hire at least a few more female performers that can handle the pressure; that can lift the newer workers. I get the logic of 'eh, we'll just use Emma or Nattie' to fill a spot but it doesn't mean I agree with it. WWE doesn't go after women wrestlers with a big fanbase except for the times they hired Awesome Kong and Paige. They prefer women wrestlers who are still relatively young in their career and/or women who can handle the physical and mental pressure of pro wrestling. And getting back to WWE's hiring practices, they don't just look for experienced talent. Even folks who been doing for a while and considered some of the best in their field don't get pass the screening process. Emma may did Shimmer but she wasn't considered one of the elite in that company. She was basically opening match material. WWE got some of the best trainers in the biz working with the women. Even experienced women wrestlers have flaws that have to be fixed and smooth out before tossing them out on tv. I seen way too many times that a woman who was good in the indies look lost as f*** on tv. I watch TNA and see Brittany who was hyped as a standout talent wrestle like a semi competent Rosa Mendes. While I wish they would hire ladies like Rosita and Dark Angel, they are going to keep up their current practices since it is what they are looking for and it delivers the desired results. Yeah, I went back and edited my post on that one. Basically, women like Bayley and Sasha and even AJ Lee weren't independent standouts but they knew enough that they shined in a top spot. I wouldn't mind if WWE went after mid-level talent, but they haven't even done that in a long time. I feel like the only way I'm proven right is if they decide to put Alexa vs Devin on an NXT special. They can't keep running combinations of Becky, Bayley and Sasha forever. Charlotte's rumored to be called up soon as well.
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Chip
Hank Scorpio
Slam Jam Death.
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Post by Chip on Sept 19, 2014 13:41:42 GMT -5
Wasn't Kendell hired around the same time as Charlotte? Kendall never made it to TV as a wrestler while Charlotte is the divas champion and can put on a good match, no surprise. That's not really fair though. Even WWE has stated time and again that Charlotte is far better then she has any right to be at this stage in her career.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
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Post by Reflecto on Sept 19, 2014 13:49:53 GMT -5
It would be great if they hired some more indy female talent, it would. But I have to wonder, knowing what we know about the pay there at NXT, if they have reached out to indy ladies and got a 'thanks but no thanks' response? They can probably make more on the indy circuit, honestly. While I'm sure there are indy ladies that would give their right arm to work for WWE, there are probably others that would rather eat nails than to work for WWE. On the contrary, I think you might be confusing TNA and NXT-WWE's pay scales. All accounts say the WWE/NXT payscale is highly competitive/reasonable, even in developmental, at a going rate of $500 a week (and most indy ladies, due to the far lower amount of spots available outside of all-woman promotions, will struggle to make $500 a week on the indy circuit). When you add the Performance Center (and the best possible training facility you could get for a up and coming wrestler), the WWE shouldn't have much of a problem. As far as the models, it's still the same point- there is no reason not to try models as well- again, you'll never know who makes it and who won't. (Same token for McClain- no one mentions him for not having indy experience, and Chris Hero proved that just being an indy darling doesn't necessarily guarantee you'll make it out of NXT, much less become a big star.) However, again- there should be a little more attention being paid to the high female indies, just due to how reliable they've been to find popular NXT talent (and, in the case of Paige, translating to popular Divas following that.) They don't ALL have to be indy ladies, but there should be a lot more being hired than they have right now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 13:55:00 GMT -5
Maybe if they actually got with the times and made the active NXT roster at least 50% women, when you did have women not make it, it wouldn't look so lopsided...
Again, I feel that's a reasonable standard.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Sept 19, 2014 14:33:12 GMT -5
WWE does hires women wrestlers along with the models and athletes. People want them to basically hire the Shimmer roster which they won't do for various reasons. For every wrestling newbie like Eva Marie and Cameron who struggle to pick it up, there are women who not only pick it up but strive like Summer Rae and Alexa Bliss. I have no problems with WWE hiring people who never done pro wrestling because a massive number of people we love started from scratch under the WWE umbrella. You never know who will become a superstar. Just like they shouldn't penalize someone who wrestled in the indies before coming to WWE. WWE will keep the same hiring practice of hiring women who fit their vision for Divas regardless of their experience level. Friendly reminder that Naomi was a model and Velvet Sky came up through the independent circuit. And that isn't one-sided either; some of the best wrestlers in the history of the business were former football players and bodybuilders. Meanwhile, Mistico was one of the most talented stars coming out of Mexico and turned out to be a complete bust. Fact of the matter is, you never truly know where your next big star is going to come from, so it's always good to cast a wide net. And if they get weeded out from developmental, good. That's what developmental is for; to find the ones who truly want it and get rid of the ones that don't.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Sept 19, 2014 14:37:05 GMT -5
My queen Jo Jo is still there so it's all good. Not gonna lie, I got really paranoid when I saw the thread title.
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Sept 19, 2014 15:35:24 GMT -5
Maybe if they actually got with the times and made the active NXT roster at least 50% women, when you did have women not make it, it wouldn't look so lopsided... Again, I feel that's a reasonable standard. It would be reasonable if they were used 50% of the time. But there's one women's match on any PPV/special. And for TV shows, there's maybe 2. So it would seem silly to invest the same amount of money and time in female talent when male talent take up the lion's share of WWE TV.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 16:54:57 GMT -5
Maybe if they actually got with the times and made the active NXT roster at least 50% women, when you did have women not make it, it wouldn't look so lopsided... Again, I feel that's a reasonable standard. It would be reasonable if they were used 50% of the time. But there's one women's match on any PPV/special. And for TV shows, there's maybe 2. So it would seem silly to invest the same amount of money and time in female talent when male talent take up the lion's share of WWE TV. I didn't think I had to say if you do that roster change, the tv time they got and the titles would be comparable to what the men have. Because like you said, it'd be silly to have that much of the roster be women and not give them shit to do. I'm automatically assuming they'd be given shit to do. Consider they can't get any more people to watch their product who isn't already watching and they've got a network to plug, why not branch out to the people they've been blatantly ignoring for decades?
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crabbymelt
ALF
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Post by crabbymelt on Sept 19, 2014 17:35:26 GMT -5
Here's the thing with the Trish Stratus hiring.
Yes, she was a model- a fitness model at that. And while I'll be the first to admit she was never amazing at wrestling, she was gifted at establishing a character, and the WWE hit the jackpot when I don't think they even meant to with her. Then, there's Kelly Kelly. Hired at 19, expressionless, took years to learn how to run the ropes, and for whatever inexplicable reason was popular with fans. And now there's Paige. Daughter of a wrestler, indie darling, already champ. All three women pretty much exemplify what WWE thought/thinks women's wrestling can be at the time. Paige is the anti-diva? Then why is she in a push-up bra and spanks, and being a fake lesbian? The more things change....
I think HHH is going in the right direction, and yes there will always be casualties in every hiring process, but I think the WWE is sorely in need of more diversity. More women of different sizes (and not slim and slender, pixie and swizzle stick), different backgrounds (comedians, sports ballers, etc.), different races! Would it kill them to hire ONE Japanese wrestler or ONE Mexican wrestler? And as far as pay goes, nobody can blame anyone for turning down a WWE job for more pay. If the WWE wants to keep their female employees, they ought to extend the olive branch and pay them more money.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 17:40:54 GMT -5
Bottom line is the top wrestling company in the world should be hiring people (male and female) with at least workable experience. Yeah but some guys just have so much potential either due to their athletic background or have a good look who happens to be a smooth talker you can't help but to sign. Like Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle, The Rock, Bray Wyatt, Randy Orton, Roman Reigns (yes I know those four are generational wrestlers that had family connections but had no to very little experience before signing. Might as well say every generational talent), Shelton Benjamin, Batista, Mark Henry, Ryback, Big E, Big Show (yeah WCW I know), Goldberg (Same thing), and countless and countless of others. Hell this shit has been going on since the beginning of pro wrestling and every decade before hand. Tons of success stories and I bet we would be surprised to hear which past famous wrestlers had no experience before signing with WWE/NWA/WCW/ECA/etc. Recruiting talent is a crapshoot and a business. If it's true developmental contracts are not all the same pay and are negotiated with experience playing a factor in negotiations, then there must be a budget an internal salary cap on total salaries they can spend on developmental contracts. If Kevin Steen and Hideo are making 60 grand a year (the rumored top price) that's 120K between the two of them which is expensive for a prospect. You could easily spend 120K on six unknown talents who might be the next Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle, Batista, Orton, Goldberg , and The Rock instead. If one prospects fails well you have two more chances per talent where a top talent who doesn't pan out is a costly mistake.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
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Post by Reflecto on Sept 19, 2014 19:44:08 GMT -5
Recruiting talent is a crapshoot and a business. If it's true developmental contracts are not all the same pay and are negotiated with experience playing a factor in negotiations, then there must be a budget an internal salary cap on total salaries they can spend on developmental contracts. If Kevin Steen and Hideo are making 60 grand a year (the rumored top price) that's 120K between the two of them which is expensive for a prospect. You could easily spend 120K on six unknown talents who might be the next Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle, Batista, Orton, Goldberg , and The Rock instead. If one prospects fails well you have two more chances per talent where a top talent who doesn't pan out is a costly mistake. But that's the other side of recruiting developmental talent as well- you also have to spend money based on how much of a "can't miss" prospect there are. For someone like Steen or Hideo making 60 grand a year, you have to also decide: Is it better to spend 20 grand a piece on three unknown guys- who may end up a Lesnar/Angle/Orton/Batista/Goldberg/Rock, but may also end up a...well, Troy McClain or Kendall Skye- or spend 60 grand to lock up a Kevin Steen- who it's fairly safe to project him turning out as a CM Punk/Daniel Bryan/Dean Ambrose/Seth Rollins? The latter is more expensive, but it's far easier to project where he'll turn out, and project the likely success that will get there...and that's incredibly useful, if not a shrewd way to run developmental scouting, as well.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Sept 19, 2014 19:48:38 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 20:16:20 GMT -5
Recruiting talent is a crapshoot and a business. If it's true developmental contracts are not all the same pay and are negotiated with experience playing a factor in negotiations, then there must be a budget an internal salary cap on total salaries they can spend on developmental contracts. If Kevin Steen and Hideo are making 60 grand a year (the rumored top price) that's 120K between the two of them which is expensive for a prospect. You could easily spend 120K on six unknown talents who might be the next Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle, Batista, Orton, Goldberg , and The Rock instead. If one prospects fails well you have two more chances per talent where a top talent who doesn't pan out is a costly mistake. But that's the other side of recruiting developmental talent as well- you also have to spend money based on how much of a "can't miss" prospect there are. For someone like Steen or Hideo making 60 grand a year, you have to also decide: Is it better to spend 20 grand a piece on three unknown guys- who may end up a Lesnar/Angle/Orton/Batista/Goldberg/Rock, but may also end up a...well, Troy McClain or Kendall Skye- or spend 60 grand to lock up a Kevin Steen- who it's fairly safe to project him turning out as a CM Punk/Daniel Bryan/Dean Ambrose/Seth Rollins? The latter is more expensive, but it's far easier to project where he'll turn out, and project the likely success that will get there...and that's incredibly useful, if not a shrewd way to run developmental scouting, as well. But the misses are real. Sin Cara, Kassius Ohno. Scouting wrestlers is almost no different then scouting any other sport. Dudes can have the talent of a first overall pick but have the attitude and coachability of a 9th round draft pick. Or vice versa.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Sept 19, 2014 20:38:48 GMT -5
Yep. Another inexperienced diva doesn't even make it to TV in a meaningful way. Maybe WWE should sign women who will stick around, who won't need to be trained from zero? Just a thought. Trish Stratus started out as a model. Kendall Skye started out as a stuntwoman and was trained in Muay Thai and kickboxing. But yeah, let's judge every woman and paint them with the same brush as all being "inexperienced." Because that's helpful and not in any way offensive to an individual's learning curve and their personal and professional growth rate within an organization.
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Post by AnActualBear on Sept 19, 2014 20:46:56 GMT -5
There's a lot of people here who don't know how developmental works. It's no different to a soccer (ugh, it's football, silly United States of Americanians) team having a youth squad. You might have 2 or 3 out of a group of 30 teenagers that make it as a professional but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have a big youth team. Some guys will make it, most won't, but you never know until you try. Besides, the cost is pretty small and the potential upside is enormous, so there's no reason not to give people with potential a try. If nothing else, it makes the exceptional students stand out more if they're surrounded by a lot of "ok" students.
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