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Post by Mayonnaise on Oct 20, 2014 22:50:29 GMT -5
I really don't get this place sometimes. Foley puts over both men in the best promo he's cut since probably the Orton feud and the main event goes exactly how it should with Dean losing because the numbers were against him unlike Sunday where he won't (in kayfabe theory) have this problem and it's hated? Different opinions and what not but I don't get that one at all. Its the same here with Bryan ain't it? The moment he gets pinned or looks ever so vulnerable 20 threads pop on how he is being buried. Since Bryan is not around we focused on Dean. That and you see Cena hovering around Dean which makes everyone paranoid. We've been burned before Mayonnaise and it hurt. Never again. I can get that. Hell I fear for Dean on Sunday as I completely expect him and Rollins to open the show, Rollins to win and then Cena get to be the one to knock him off at Survivor Series and Orton at TLC (probably taking the MITB) but that is later on. Guess since I just tuned in for the Foley stuff on I wasn't hating RAW like most seemed and that helped the main event make sense/work for me.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Oct 20, 2014 22:53:50 GMT -5
I really don't get this place sometimes. Foley puts over both men in the best promo he's cut since probably the Orton feud and the main event goes exactly how it should with Dean losing because the numbers were against him unlike Sunday where he won't (in kayfabe theory) have this problem and it's hated? Different opinions and what not but I don't get that one at all. Its the same here with Bryan ain't it? The moment he gets pinned or looks ever so vulnerable 20 threads pop on how he is being buried. Since Bryan is not around we focused on Dean. That and you see Cena hovering around Dean which makes everyone paranoid. We've been burned before Mayonnaise and it hurt. Never again. It does lead to some "Can't see the forest for the trees" situations, though. The reality was that Bryan was one of the most protected guys on the roster during his main event run from last year to his injury, with the only clean losses he took being from the Wyatt Family feud, but it wasn't Cena-like protection where he'd overcome 3 or 4 or 5-on-1 beatdowns somehow, which is fine with me. People from The Authority either never beat him clean or never beat him at all. But because big bad Triple H and big bad Stephanie McMahon had the audacity to cut him down in promos like the heels they are, among other things, the sky was going to fall in. There does seem to be a tendency towards melodramatic reactions when things don't get booked just right with some. The effect of a single clean pinfall is overrated anyway. So someone kept you down long enough to sit on your chest for three seconds... big whoop. Taking lots of them? That's another issue altogether, but just one in isolation? I don't see the issue.
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Post by SenorCrest on Oct 20, 2014 22:54:55 GMT -5
Its the same here with Bryan ain't it? The moment he gets pinned or looks ever so vulnerable 20 threads pop on how he is being buried. Since Bryan is not around we focused on Dean. That and you see Cena hovering around Dean which makes everyone paranoid. We've been burned before Mayonnaise and it hurt. Never again. I can get that. Hell I fear for Dean on Sunday as I completely expect him and Rollins to open the show, Rollins to win and then Cena get to be the one to knock him off at Survivor Series and Orton at TLC (probably taking the MITB) but that is later on. Guess since I just tuned in for the Foley stuff on I wasn't hating RAW like most seemed and that helped the main event make sense/work for me. I think we should have a prayer circle Sunday morning for Dean and pray to JBL that the company has full on faith in this guy.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Oct 20, 2014 22:55:51 GMT -5
Its the same here with Bryan ain't it? The moment he gets pinned or looks ever so vulnerable 20 threads pop on how he is being buried. Since Bryan is not around we focused on Dean. That and you see Cena hovering around Dean which makes everyone paranoid. We've been burned before Mayonnaise and it hurt. Never again. I can get that. Hell I fear for Dean on Sunday as I completely expect him and Rollins to open the show, Rollins to win and then Cena get to be the one to knock him off at Survivor Series and Orton at TLC (probably taking the MITB) but that is later on. Guess since I just tuned in for the Foley stuff on I wasn't hating RAW like most seemed and that helped the main event make sense/work for me. The way I saw it, they've set up Orton getting involved and costing Rollins the match as revenge for the Curb Stomp.
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Oct 20, 2014 22:57:08 GMT -5
I'm sure Dean Ambrose's popularity took a hit with that pin. Seriously people complain when Cena never takes the fall in matches but when a top babyface like Dean loses in a clusterf*** match it's hurting him too much. Cena is established firmly as a top babyface at this point. He's bulletproof. Dean Ambrose... is not. He needs all the help he can get if they truly want him to be anywhere in the upper echelon. One loss like this won't kill him, especially since it was a handicap match, but it's certainly not doing him any favors either. Also, if Orton was going to pin somebody, why not Cena? That's who he's facing this Sunday as it is. Him pinning Dean Ambrose makes absolutely no sense and does nothing to further either feud.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 22:59:52 GMT -5
I really liked the finish. Ambrose thought he could tempt fate and hit the second rebound clothesline and Orton was like I'm not falling for this shit again bam RKO
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
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Post by saintpat on Oct 20, 2014 23:03:12 GMT -5
Pretty much any finish that didn't have Ambrose single-handedly destroying the team with the handicap odds in its favor was going to get panned by someone. I'm sure OP would have been happy if Cena had taken Kane out and pinned him, lol.
One thing I don't get about these "made _____ look weak and ruined him forever" threads/posts is that the person saying it never seems to be soured on or have given up on the guy who lost ... it's like they assume the rest of us are going to look at Ambrose and say, "I can't get behind him any more, he just doesn't look as strong now, he couldn't win that handicap match."
I haven't seen a single person post that Ambrose is now lesser in their eyes, no longer worthy or deserving of a push or main event status, so why assume someone else watching would feel that way?
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Oct 20, 2014 23:06:54 GMT -5
I'm sure Dean Ambrose's popularity took a hit with that pin. Seriously people complain when Cena never takes the fall in matches but when a top babyface like Dean loses in a clusterf*** match it's hurting him too much. Cena is established firmly as a top babyface at this point. He's bulletproof. Dean Ambrose... is not. He needs all the help he can get if they truly want him to be anywhere in the upper echelon. One loss like this won't kill him, especially since it was a handicap match, but it's certainly not doing him any favors either. This.
Look guys Im not complaining and not saying DEANS FINISHED AND EVERYTHINGS OVER now that he lost, I wasn't even complaining about the pin so much as I thought of all people, Kane should have been pinned out of the Five.
Dean will be fine, I know that, still the way that match ended just felt so weird...
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Oct 21, 2014 0:53:05 GMT -5
My biggest issue with the entire thing is that I'm just sick of guys who have PPV matches losing to other guys with PPV matches in the weeks leading up to the match. This is why you need established midcard JJTS. They still win matches against other JTTS Superstars, but are there to give wins to guys who have big PPV matches coming up. WCW even had this system down for the most part pre-1999.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 21, 2014 1:26:22 GMT -5
My biggest issue with the entire thing is that I'm just sick of guys who have PPV matches losing to other guys with PPV matches in the weeks leading up to the match. This is why you need established midcard JJTS. They still win matches against other JTTS Superstars, but are there to give wins to guys who have big PPV matches coming up. WCW even had this system down for the most part pre-1999. They kind of do this. Problem with that is that if you aren't currently in a feud you don't do anything but lose. There doesn't seem to be a middle ground between losing, and being kept strong enough that losing means something. And they have only 2-3 people doing pretty much ALL the JTTS-ing so their credibility gets hammered into the ground while hardly anyone else gets the chance to perform altogether.
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Post by Nic Nemeth on Oct 21, 2014 2:56:27 GMT -5
I'm just glad Authority finally won a match cause I honestly don't remember them ever winning a match unless it was Rollins/Orton on their own.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Oct 21, 2014 3:17:21 GMT -5
It was a handicap match of three top heels vs. two top babyfaces. The heels should win to keep their heat, and it can be clean because it's 3 vs. 2. Plus it gives the tantalising hint that Dean will win in the Cell.
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Oct 21, 2014 6:04:54 GMT -5
...the main event goes exactly how it should with Dean losing because the numbers were against him But Ambrose didn't really lose to the numbers game (Maggle!), that would have been fine. Being taken out by a weapon assisted finisher would have been OK too as would falling victim to a well laid Authority plan or the face team disintegrating on their own. However it basically came down to Ambrose vs Orton in their own little singles match and Dean lost clean to the glorified stooge before spending the rest of the show having a nice little lay down from a move that Cena will probably kick out of multiple times inside HiaC. Cena actually got it worse, he was taken out for a longer period of time (at least five minutes?) by a Kane chokeslam. Cena! The guy that can overcome any odds! Like the posts above have already said The Authority never win cleanly in a fair fight which just makes their opponents look bad in a situation like this. In theory there was nothing wrong with Ambrose taking the pin but the execution was poor. My booking (ie ignore if you want) - When Ambrose went for the rebound clothesline Seth should have hit him with a chair making him stumble into a RKO. The Authority still look strong but Seth is partially responsible for the pin and Ambrose looks better as it took two men and a chair to stop him.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Oct 21, 2014 6:08:16 GMT -5
It's 8 hours later, and if it wasn't for this thread, I wouldn't have remembered who took the loss last night, it was that inconsequential in the whole scheme of things.
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WWEedy
Don Corleone
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Post by WWEedy on Oct 21, 2014 6:22:49 GMT -5
Your favorites have to lose sometime. The odds were against him, it was logical booking. Surely we should be happy that WWE didn't do what the usually do in this situation and throw logic to the wind with Dean "overcoming the odds." It's booking 101, now you want to see him win even more on Sunday.
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I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Oct 21, 2014 6:45:42 GMT -5
I didn't watch, but I'm just glad to hear the team with the advantage won a handicap match. I can't remember the last time that's happened, it feels like it's been years. Other than the Nikki Bella series of handicap matches, you're right. I really don't understand people not being ok with the heel team finally winning one of these "overcome the odds!" situations for the face team, especially one that involved Cena
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Post by Session Moth is over on Oct 21, 2014 7:20:42 GMT -5
I loved the ending of the 3 on 2 match once the cell came down. Was fantastic and really built the HIAC matches for me. I didn't mind Ambrose taking the pin.
If there was any part of the show where Ambrose looked bad in it was that terrible segment with the dummy. Man that was bad.
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mrbananagrabber
King Koopa
Paul Heyman's unofficial joke writer
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Oct 21, 2014 7:21:11 GMT -5
Yeah Cena and Ambrose should totally have won a three on two handicap match. That wouldn't have made the other three look like chumps at all.
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TheDieselTrain
Fry's dog Seymour
Chicks Dig Hootie.
Is Stone Cold gonna have to smack a bitch?? WHAT!!!?????
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Post by TheDieselTrain on Oct 21, 2014 12:46:55 GMT -5
Kane's a movie star buddy. Dean ain't one in kayfabe.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Oct 21, 2014 13:44:17 GMT -5
Cena actually lost a match and all you're focusing on is Dean taking the pin?
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