How could the world be more advanced today?

[Nr1Humanoid]

Seems to me the damage done by not letting blacks, Hispanic and Indians have opportunities to succeed for so long would be incalculable.

Even more so women where it traces back even longer. Imagine all the females worldwide held back even today.

And of course scientists. Scorned and prosecuted for so long. Imagine where we'd be technologically speaking today if they'd been listened to.

Maybe I've been reading to much Michener.

Any other examples?

[Sephiroth]

[Hit Girl]

Depends on where you are in the world.

[Deleted]

Iraq, 1258: Mongols decide to not destroy the libraries at Baghdad.

Medieval China, in general: Song defeats Jin and Mongols. Or: Ming defeats Manchu.

[Sparkybob]

If John Cena's mom didnt like sex so much the WWE will be so much morr advanced.

[Instant Classic]

[Push R Truth]

If it wasn't for Elvis we'd be in a utopia

[Sephiroth]

Oct 25, 2014 12:16:01 GMT -5 @mightykretzler said:

Iraq, 1258: Mongols decide to not destroy the libraries at Baghdad.

Medieval China, in general: Song defeats Jin and Mongols. Or: Ming defeats Manchu.

Romans don't burn the libraries of Egypt during Caesar's occupation

[Amazing Kitsune]

Oct 25, 2014 12:47:44 GMT -5 Sephiroth said:

Oct 25, 2014 12:16:01 GMT -5 @mightykretzler said:

Iraq, 1258: Mongols decide to not destroy the libraries at Baghdad.

Medieval China, in general: Song defeats Jin and Mongols. Or: Ming defeats Manchu.

Romans don't burn the libraries of Egypt during Caesar's occupation

I just want to say, on behalf of Caesar, that the fire that burned a part of Alexandria was an accident. They had to use fire ships to achieve a military objective and the resulting fire was an unfortunate side effect of that necessity. It's also quite possible that the library didn't burn down then--only a major warehouse holding extra scrolls was burned--and that it actually existed for a long time afterwards.

The importance of the library is also probably somewhat overstated--it was not the only library in the world and one wonders if any of the works inside where one-of-a-kind. We will never know. Even in those days, they had copies of most books elsewhere--though nothing on the scale that we do today. The burning of the library has become a symbol of lost knowledge. In actuality, it may have been more of a symbolic blow to our learning than an actual one.

But that's the great fear. Ultimately we simply don't know what was lost by the burning of the library. Very little could have been, but the simple fact that so little of the writings of the ancient world survives drives us crazy.

The big problem is that human knowledge would have been better served if somebody would have had the good graces to invent a proper printing press right after they invented writing. Our loss of ancient texts was not the result of any one event, but countless small events and the fact that they simply weren't able to copy texts fast enough to replace losses.

But another ancient history "what if" to ponder...

What if Hannibal aggressively went towards Rome after his victory at Cannae? Assuming that a siege would have been successful--and it's not a foregone conclusion that it would have--how would history have changed in a world where Rome lost the Second Punic War? If Rome never becomes a great power, then as a result European and Middle Eastern development would be decidedly different. Politically, culturally, and religiously the world would be a drastically different place.

You can say that of a lot of events, of course. A minor deviation could theoretically change a lot of things. A major deviation, even moreso.

[Sephiroth]

Oct 25, 2014 13:43:24 GMT -5 Amazing Kitsune said:

Oct 25, 2014 12:47:44 GMT -5 Sephiroth said:

Romans don't burn the libraries of Egypt during Caesar's occupation

I just want to say, on behalf of Caesar, that the fire that burned a part of Alexandria was an accident. They had to use fire ships to achieve a military objective and the resulting fire was an unfortunate side effect of that necessity. It's also quite possible that the library didn't burn down then--only a major warehouse holding extra scrolls was burned--and that it actually existed for a long time afterwards.

The importance of the library is also probably somewhat overstated--it was not the only library in the world and one wonders if any of the works inside where one-of-a-kind. We will never know. Even in those days, they had copies of most books elsewhere--though nothing on the scale that we do today. The burning of the library has become a symbol of lost knowledge. In actuality, it may have been more of a symbolic blow to our learning than an actual one.

But that's the great fear. Ultimately we simply don't know what was lost by the burning of the library. Very little could have been, but the simple fact that so little of the writings of the ancient world survives drives us crazy.

The big problem is that human knowledge would have been better served if somebody would have had the good graces to invent a proper printing press right after they invented writing. Our loss of ancient texts was not the result of any one event, but countless small events and the fact that they simply weren't able to copy texts fast enough to replace losses.

But another ancient history "what if" to ponder...

What if Hannibal aggressively went towards Rome after his victory at Cannae? Assuming that a siege would have been successful--and it's not a foregone conclusion that it would have--how would history have changed in a world where Rome lost the Second Punic War? If Rome never becomes a great power, then as a result European and Middle Eastern development would be decidedly different. Politically, culturally, and religiously the world would be a drastically different place.

You can say that of a lot of events, of course. A minor deviation could theoretically change a lot of things. A major deviation, even moreso.

And you're client BAROOOOOOOOOOOCK LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESNAR should not have ended the streak!

[Bo Rida]

Hispanic people haven't had the chance to succeed? Spain and Portugal had empires!
India has also been a powerful country for large parts of it's existence.

Anyway I'd say more non-nuclear wars as they seem to lead to a lot of technological and medical innovations.
Naturally that isn't an ideal way of advancing things, plus the next Einstein could be amongst the casualties.

[Deleted]

Oct 25, 2014 13:43:24 GMT -5 Amazing Kitsune said:

Oct 25, 2014 12:47:44 GMT -5 Sephiroth said:

Romans don't burn the libraries of Egypt during Caesar's occupation

I just want to say, on behalf of Caesar, that the fire that burned a part of Alexandria was an accident. They had to use fire ships to achieve a military objective and the resulting fire was an unfortunate side effect of that necessity. It's also quite possible that the library didn't burn down then--only a major warehouse holding extra scrolls was burned--and that it actually existed for a long time afterwards.

The importance of the library is also probably somewhat overstated--it was not the only library in the world and one wonders if any of the works inside where one-of-a-kind. We will never know. Even in those days, they had copies of most books elsewhere--though nothing on the scale that we do today. The burning of the library has become a symbol of lost knowledge. In actuality, it may have been more of a symbolic blow to our learning than an actual one.

But that's the great fear. Ultimately we simply don't know what was lost by the burning of the library. Very little could have been, but the simple fact that so little of the writings of the ancient world survives drives us crazy.

The big problem is that human knowledge would have been better served if somebody would have had the good graces to invent a proper printing press right after they invented writing. Our loss of ancient texts was not the result of any one event, but countless small events and the fact that they simply weren't able to copy texts fast enough to replace losses.

I don't think the loss of major centers of scholarship are so damaging because certain texts are gone, but because it's crippling to academic infrastructure in a certain place. Any schools that rely on that kind of information in order to function are almost immediately belly-up. Scientists and instructors will go somewhere else where the available information is better; local leaders won't be able to fund research or build good schools because faculty won't be there.

Where you have libraries, you have literacy. Where you have literacy, intellectualism and technological development flourish because more people can put their ideas on paper. In states that treated literacy very seriously and spearheaded scholarly environments (e.g. most of the Middle Eastern powers of the Middle Ages), losing a repository of texts would hurt that.

Unless, of course, you have printing techniques. In which case, it doesn't just work for writing; it works for anything that can be printed. Why was there an explosion of interest in Japanese materials in the late 19th century? There's a lot of reasons, but one of the most important was the fact that Japanese artists had decades of experience with copying cheap, two-dimensional art, which was easy for travelers and traders to take home and distribute. Which in turn helped spawn a massive Japanese art market and correspondingly, a global fascination with Japanese culture which persists to the present.

[BigWill]

It seems this thread is a bit more serious than I initially thought it would be.

I just wanted a flying car.

[Cyno]

Oct 25, 2014 14:01:43 GMT -5 Bo Rida said:

Hispanic people haven't had the chance to succeed? Spain and Portugal had empires!
India has also been a powerful country for large parts of it's existence.

Anyway I'd say more non-nuclear wars as they seem to lead to a lot of technological and medical innovations.

Spanish and Portuguese people of European descent are generally not considered Hispanic. It usually refers to people of Spanish descent from the Americas and Caribbean and other places where the Spanish empire colonized and conquered. Though people of Portuguese descent in those areas, like Brazil, aren't usually included with Hispanics.

I also think the OP was talking about Native Americans, not the actual Indians.

[Deleted]

Oct 25, 2014 15:15:38 GMT -5 Cyno said:

Oct 25, 2014 14:01:43 GMT -5 Bo Rida said:

Hispanic people haven't had the chance to succeed? Spain and Portugal had empires!
India has also been a powerful country for large parts of it's existence.

Anyway I'd say more non-nuclear wars as they seem to lead to a lot of technological and medical innovations.

Spanish and Portuguese people of European descent are not Hispanic.

I also think the OP was talking about Native Americans, not the actual Indians.

Anyone from what was Hispania is Hispanic.

[A Platypus Rave]

Oct 25, 2014 15:15:38 GMT -5 Cyno said:

Oct 25, 2014 14:01:43 GMT -5 Bo Rida said:

Hispanic people haven't had the chance to succeed? Spain and Portugal had empires!
India has also been a powerful country for large parts of it's existence.

Anyway I'd say more non-nuclear wars as they seem to lead to a lot of technological and medical innovations.

Spanish and Portuguese people of European descent are not Hispanic.

Yes, they are. At least according to the U.S. Government.

[Bo Rida]

Oh clearly I was thinking of completely different things when it comes to Indians and Hispanic people. Damn confusing but perfectly legitimate terms.

[Joe Neglia]

All I know is that we can send robots to the other side of the galaxy, but still can't figure out how to make pets' medicine taste good enough that they'll actually take it.

[Nr1Humanoid]

Oct 25, 2014 15:15:38 GMT -5 Cyno said:

Oct 25, 2014 14:01:43 GMT -5 Bo Rida said:

Hispanic people haven't had the chance to succeed? Spain and Portugal had empires!
India has also been a powerful country for large parts of it's existence.

Anyway I'd say more non-nuclear wars as they seem to lead to a lot of technological and medical innovations.

Spanish and Portuguese people of European descent are generally not considered Hispanic. It usually refers to people of Spanish descent from the Americas and Caribbean and other places where the Spanish empire colonized and conquered. Though people of Portuguese descent in those areas, like Brazil, aren't usually included with Hispanics.

I also think the OP was talking about Native Americans, not the actual Indians.

I guess I should have thought in broader terms since I meant Hispanic immigrants in America.

And I meant Native Americans when I said Indians. I've never bothered with being PC. Especially when it's more letters to type.

[Mozenrath]

Oct 25, 2014 18:31:00 GMT -5 Joe Neglia said:

All I know is that we can send robots to the other side of the galaxy, but still can't figure out how to make pets' medicine taste good enough that they'll actually take it.

They don't know what they're missing. These heart worm pills are delicious.