mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Oct 29, 2014 14:37:33 GMT -5
Anyone remember the story how Austin wanted to face Hogan in WCW several times and was denied repeatedly until being driven to ECW/WWE? Austin's WCW sob story annoys me no end. Think of the amount of people WWE released when he was on top. What if years later they turn out to be something. I bet they wouldn't piss and moan about him or think of who the WWE release now - Cena's fault? As if Hogan's ambition was to go in and target Steve Austin. As said he probably had no idea who he was until after he Attitude era hit and even then likely spent the first 9 months calling him Steve Ogstein or something. But it seems like a chip Austin carried around on his shoulder for years or at least it was a narrative concocted by the usual poke who put two and two together and come up with five. Well it motivated him to be a top guy, so it all worked out. Also Hogan in WCW was past his prime but still on top. The 5 years or so Austin was on top in the WWF he was still in his thirties.
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AtomSmasher
Trap-Jaw
"Measue it twice...cut it once"
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Post by AtomSmasher on Oct 29, 2014 14:38:04 GMT -5
Hogan wanted to put Austin over at WM5. That's a fact, jack......
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Oct 29, 2014 14:42:38 GMT -5
Hogan wanted to put Austin over at WM5. That's a fact, jack...... "I kept telling Vince, 'Brother, we've gotta get this Steve Austin guy and strap a rocketpack to his back, Jack. We'll take the business to new heights, dude. Sadly, he died shortly afterwards and it never happened. Vince died shortly after the funeral. It all worked out though brother, because I then went on to wrestle Andre at Wrestlemania 18 where I pressed that big, stinky giant over my head in front of 11 million people, tearing all the muscles in my body. I died shortly afterwards."
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Oct 29, 2014 14:50:06 GMT -5
Poor grandpa maybe he's also imagining when he used to hang out with John Belushi...two years after Belushi died.
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Post by Urfarkendarf on Oct 29, 2014 14:50:36 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if Hogan didn't even know Austin existed until at least 2012 Hogan is not Vince and has always had a keen understanding of what's going on in the business and outside of it. He definitely has known about Austin since his days in the WCW and he's talked about how he felt about him when he was in the nWo. I don't believe the orange goblin when he says he's been chasing him for that many years as I doubt he gave a shit about him before he became Stone Cold. I genuinely believe Hogan felt his WWF legacy being threatened when Austin was "the man" though. No one ever thought Hogan's achievements in the WWF would be surpassed and Austin did so. The ship has sailed on this though. If Austin returns (and there are rumors about next year) it won't be against Hogan. That's one dream match that will never happen now. I wouldnt mind Hogan getting stunned out of his boots though.
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Evil Homer
Hank Scorpio
I am Evil Homer, I am Evil Homer.
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Post by Evil Homer on Oct 29, 2014 14:51:21 GMT -5
This a man, who once said the montreal screwjob took place at WM20 - So he maybe just a little bit lost
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Post by Urfarkendarf on Oct 29, 2014 14:51:50 GMT -5
Poor grandpa maybe he's also imagining when he used to hang out with John Belushi...two years after Belushi died. Or auditioning to be the bassist in Metallica lol
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Oct 29, 2014 14:54:01 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if Hogan didn't even know Austin existed until at least 2012 Hogan is not Vince and has always had a keen understanding of what's going on in the business and outside of it. He definitely has known about Austin since his days in the WCW and he's talked about how he felt about him when he was in the nWo. I don't believe the orange goblin when he says he's been chasing him for that many years as I doubt he gave a shit about him before he became Stone Cold. I genuinely believe Hogan felt his WWF legacy being threatened when Austin was "the man" though. No one ever thought Hogan's achievements in the WWF would be surpassed and Austin did so.The ship has sailed on this though. If Austin returns (and there are rumors about next year) it won't be against Hogan. That's one dream match that will never happen now. I wouldnt mind Hogan getting stunned out of his boots though. eeehhhhh Hogan's still number 1 of all time I think. Austin and Rock just behind. (yes I know Rock's a huge movie star now, but he wasn't bigger than Hogan as an active wrestler).
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Post by Urfarkendarf on Oct 29, 2014 15:07:35 GMT -5
Hogan is not Vince and has always had a keen understanding of what's going on in the business and outside of it. He definitely has known about Austin since his days in the WCW and he's talked about how he felt about him when he was in the nWo. I don't believe the orange goblin when he says he's been chasing him for that many years as I doubt he gave a shit about him before he became Stone Cold. I genuinely believe Hogan felt his WWF legacy being threatened when Austin was "the man" though. No one ever thought Hogan's achievements in the WWF would be surpassed and Austin did so.The ship has sailed on this though. If Austin returns (and there are rumors about next year) it won't be against Hogan. That's one dream match that will never happen now. I wouldnt mind Hogan getting stunned out of his boots though. eeehhhhh Hogan's still number 1 of all time I think. Austin and Rock just behind. (yes I know Rock's a huge movie star now, but he wasn't bigger than Hogan as an active wrestler). No. Austin accomplished more in the world of wrestling. Hogan was chosen to be the man. Austin wasn't and had to prove himself. Even Vince has stated that Austin is the #1 guy of all time, both from intangibles like being better in the ring, a better promo, and also sold a helluva lot more merchandise. It also helps Austin that he was the #1 guy during the biggest boom period in the business' history. The WWE made far more money with Austin in the position than they did with Hogan. Austin has also never tainted his legacy by doing things like TNA. Hogan was the first megastar in wrestling and no one can take that away from him, but Austin did it almost completely within the confines of WWE. I'm not saying Hogan doesn't deserve credit. He proved that guys can crossover and be amazingly popular outside of wrestling (and Rock has surpassed him there) and also had a hugely successful reinvention with the nWo, but purely within the confines of wrestling, Austin surpassed Hogan in almost every facet from being a draw, to merchandise, etc. Hogan is Johnny Unitas to Austin's Peyton Manning. Different eras, but there are still areas where they can be compared.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 15:12:48 GMT -5
I <3 Hogan.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
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Post by saintpat on Oct 29, 2014 15:16:40 GMT -5
He eventually caught up to him at the start of WM30 at the Silverdome, brother ... and Austin finally bought him that beer he promised the Hulkster all those years ago.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Oct 29, 2014 15:27:45 GMT -5
I can't believe this is even a serious discussion. Hogan is the biggest wrestling star of all time. Austin is probably second but Hogan is a clear first. The guy revolutionised wrestling as we know it. Arguably twice in the 80s and late 90s.
Austin's few years were unparalleled but who was the pioneer for the nWo and WCW's success? Apparently washed-up Hogan. He's a level above everyone.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Oct 29, 2014 17:04:24 GMT -5
eeehhhhh Hogan's still number 1 of all time I think. Austin and Rock just behind. (yes I know Rock's a huge movie star now, but he wasn't bigger than Hogan as an active wrestler). No. Austin accomplished more in the world of wrestling. Hogan was chosen to be the man. Austin wasn't and had to prove himself. Even Vince has stated that Austin is the #1 guy of all time, both from intangibles like being better in the ring, a better promo, and also sold a helluva lot more merchandise. It also helps Austin that he was the #1 guy during the biggest boom period in the business' history. The WWE made far more money with Austin in the position than they did with Hogan. Austin has also never tainted his legacy by doing things like TNA. Hogan was the first megastar in wrestling and no one can take that away from him, but Austin did it almost completely within the confines of WWE. I'm not saying Hogan doesn't deserve credit. He proved that guys can crossover and be amazingly popular outside of wrestling (and Rock has surpassed him there) and also had a hugely successful reinvention with the nWo, but purely within the confines of wrestling, Austin surpassed Hogan in almost every facet from being a draw, to merchandise, etc. Hogan is Johnny Unitas to Austin's Peyton Manning. Different eras, but there are still areas where they can be compared. So much wrong. Hogan wasn't handpicked (at least in the manufactured sense, which seems to be what you're implying). He was getting over huge in AWA and then Vince wanted to capitalize on his Rocky 3 exposure. The Attitude era was not the biggest boom. The Main Event with Hogan/Andre rematch drew a 15.2, whereas Raw's highest was 8.1. Austin sold more merch because there was more merch to sell. They still hadn't realized all the ways to make money yet in the 80s. I don't even think they had merch tables in the 80s and if they did, there wouldn't have been much on them. Maybe a couple shirts and a foam finger). Besides, that figure might be wrong if you count NWO merch. Or over looking things like longevity as well. How many Mania's did Hogan main event as opposed to Austin? I personally prefer Austin over Hogan but there's no way he's a bigger star in wrestling.
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Post by Urfarkendarf on Oct 29, 2014 20:30:27 GMT -5
So much wrong. Hogan wasn't handpicked (at least in the manufactured sense, which seems to be what you're implying). He was getting over huge in AWA and then Vince wanted to capitalize on his Rocky 3 exposure. The Attitude era was not the biggest boom. The Main Event with Hogan/Andre rematch drew a 15.2, whereas Raw's highest was 8.1. Austin sold more merch because there was more merch to sell. They still hadn't realized all the ways to make money yet in the 80s. I don't even think they had merch tables in the 80s and if they did, there wouldn't have been much on them. Maybe a couple shirts and a foam finger). Besides, that figure might be wrong if you count NWO merch. Or over looking things like longevity as well. How many Mania's did Hogan main event as opposed to Austin? I personally prefer Austin over Hogan but there's no way he's a bigger star in wrestling. C'mon lol. Hogan was ABSOLUTELY handpicked. Of course Hogan was getting over in AWA/Rocky III and this is the reason Vince handpicked him to be his flagship star during the national expansion. He was back in WWF less than a month before he beat the Sheik and didn't lose the belt for years. You're going to use ratings for one event to dispute this? You're also using a network # since SNME was on NBC vs a cable channel. The difference between 1988 and 1999 in terms of TV is light years different. It's an unfair statistical comparison. And yes, of course there were merch stands in the 80s. My first wrestling event I got a Demolition t-shirt and a Steamboat poster and clearly remember having to choose between many. Not as many as today, but there was definitely merch stands. Do you not remember the days of the WWF Catalog? Many superstars had merchandise and few had the amount of Hogan back then. Hogan had something like 10 pages of the catalog which was comparable to Cena today. Iconic stars like Piper, Macho, etc. Again, even Vince himself states that Austin is the #1 star in the history of the company. Austin also achieved his heights in less time. Sure, Hogan has the longevity, but Austin's career lasted about 15 years total in the big time, which is roughly half of Hogan's. Austin was only in the WWE for 7 years as a full time competitor (96-03) and headlined WM more than half of those years and it would've been more had he not missed time due to serious injuries, another unfair statistic when comparing him to Hogan. Austin was never expected to be "the man". He became the man. Hogan was handpicked and sure, it cannot be understated how much Hogan did once he was given the ball and rightly deserves his place on any wrestling Mt. Rushmore, but considering the amount of time Austin had at the top and what he accomplished in a relative short period of time, its pretty easy to make an argument for Austin over Hogan in this respect, from the amount of money he made the company to the heights he took the company when he was the top guy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 20:45:51 GMT -5
Anyone remember the story how Austin wanted to face Hogan in WCW several times and was denied repeatedly until being driven to ECW/WWE? Austin's WCW sob story annoys me no end. Think of the amount of people WWE released when he was on top. What if years later they turn out to be something. I bet they wouldn't piss and moan about him or think of who the WWE release now - Cena's fault? As if Hogan's ambition was to go in and target Steve Austin. As said he probably had no idea who he was until after he Attitude era hit and even then likely spent the first 9 months calling him Steve Ogstein or something. But it seems like a chip Austin carried around on his shoulder for years or at least it was a narrative concocted by the usual poke who put two and two together and come up with five. I dunno, it's pretty easy to see why Austin would be so bitter about his time in WCW. Besides the whole being fired while injured thing, he was a very prominent figure for a long while and easily could have been removed into the main event scene, but instead right around the time Hogan came in they had him doing things like being awarded the US title only to lose it in about ten seconds flat to Jim Duggan, then after that he basically just floated aimlessly until they let him go. And even within that segment it was very easy to see just how charismatic he is.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Oct 29, 2014 20:56:50 GMT -5
So much wrong. Hogan wasn't handpicked (at least in the manufactured sense, which seems to be what you're implying). He was getting over huge in AWA and then Vince wanted to capitalize on his Rocky 3 exposure. The Attitude era was not the biggest boom. The Main Event with Hogan/Andre rematch drew a 15.2, whereas Raw's highest was 8.1. Austin sold more merch because there was more merch to sell. They still hadn't realized all the ways to make money yet in the 80s. I don't even think they had merch tables in the 80s and if they did, there wouldn't have been much on them. Maybe a couple shirts and a foam finger). Besides, that figure might be wrong if you count NWO merch. Or over looking things like longevity as well. How many Mania's did Hogan main event as opposed to Austin? I personally prefer Austin over Hogan but there's no way he's a bigger star in wrestling. C'mon lol. Hogan was ABSOLUTELY handpicked. Of course Hogan was getting over in AWA/Rocky III and this is the reason Vince handpicked him to be his flagship star during the national expansion. He was back in WWF less than a month before he beat the Sheik and didn't lose the belt for years. You're going to use ratings for one event to dispute this? You're also using a network # since SNME was on NBC vs a cable channel. The difference between 1988 and 1999 in terms of TV is light years different. It's an unfair statistical comparison. And yes, of course there were merch stands in the 80s. My first wrestling event I got a Demolition t-shirt and a Steamboat poster and clearly remember having to choose between many. Not as many as today, but there was definitely merch stands. Do you not remember the days of the WWF Catalog? Many superstars had merchandise and few had the amount of Hogan back then. Hogan had something like 10 pages of the catalog which was comparable to Cena today. Iconic stars like Piper, Macho, etc. Again, even Vince himself states that Austin is the #1 star in the history of the company. Austin also achieved his heights in less time. Sure, Hogan has the longevity, but Austin's career lasted about 15 years total in the big time, which is roughly half of Hogan's. Austin was only in the WWE for 7 years as a full time competitor (96-03) and headlined WM more than half of those years and it would've been more had he not missed time due to serious injuries, another unfair statistic when comparing him to Hogan. Austin was never expected to be "the man". He became the man. Hogan was handpicked and sure, it cannot be understated how much Hogan did once he was given the ball and rightly deserves his place on any wrestling Mt. Rushmore, but considering the amount of time Austin had at the top and what he accomplished in a relative short period of time, its pretty easy to make an argument for Austin over Hogan in this respect, from the amount of money he made the company to the heights he took the company when he was the top guy. Vince only says that when Hogan's on his bad side.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Oct 29, 2014 20:57:07 GMT -5
Same old revisionist horseshit.Vince says so much shit I don't think he knows what he's talking about. When he's on the outs with Hogan, it went from Andre the Giant to Stone Cold. Without Hulk Hogan, there isn't a Stone Cold Steve Austin. Oh and her der her her, orange goblin, grandpa, orange.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 20:58:04 GMT -5
Same old revisionist horseshit.Vince says so much shit I don't think he knows what he's talking about. When he's on the outs with Hogan, it went from Andre the Giant to Stone Cold. Without Hulk Hogan, there isn't a Stone Cold Steve Austin. Oh and her der her her, orange goblin, grandpa, orange. I don't think the precursor argument really means that much. Without Billy Graham there's no Hulk Hogan, still wouldn't say he's a bigger star than Hogan is. Not saying one or the other is bigger - Hogan probably is but not really that inclined to argu it - I just think that's a weak angle to argue from.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Oct 29, 2014 21:01:16 GMT -5
Imagine Hulk Hogan after WrestleMania V thinking, "When I get back from promoting No Holds Barred, I really want to work with that Steve Williams kid from Chris Adams's wrestling school down in Texas, brother!"
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Oct 29, 2014 21:03:33 GMT -5
Same old revisionist horseshit.Vince says so much shit I don't think he knows what he's talking about. When he's on the outs with Hogan, it went from Andre the Giant to Stone Cold. Without Hulk Hogan, there isn't a Stone Cold Steve Austin. Oh and her der her her, orange goblin, grandpa, orange. I don't think the precursor argument really means that much. Without Billy Graham there's no Hulk Hogan, still wouldn't say he's a bigger star than Hogan is. Not saying one or the other is bigger - Hogan probably is but not really that inclined to argument it - I just think that's a weak angle to argue from. Hogan was the guy who the WWF was built around, the first crossover star, the guy who was able to sell tickets by his charisma alone, why the company is now World Wrestling Entertainment. It's not that Hogan's act was so original, like you said, Billy Graham, Blackjack Mulligan, and others are all in there. But to denigrate his importance or the level of his talent or that he got over because he was "handpicked" is just wrong. When I said Stone Cold doesn't exist without Hogan, it's because the Hogan blueprint of the megastar was made by Hogan and Vince.
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