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Post by Some Guy on Nov 23, 2014 13:36:24 GMT -5
Is there any actual evidence yet or are people still seriously going by the "he's been accused therefore he's guilty" anti-logic? Don't get me wrong, of course there should be an investigation, but I wish people wouldn't, you know, call someone a rapist without any actual proof. You know, due process, fair trial, innocent until proven guilty, all that stuff that shows we've evolved at least a teensy bit since witch-burnings? It's worth noting that while people keep going to "innocent until proven guilty", we're not a judge, we're not a jury, we're not an executioner. People are under zero obligation to obtain a conviction to think "I don't trust that guy". It's also worth noting that, by that standard, the accusers are also worth the benefit of the doubt, or else you're assuming they, themselves, are guilty of a crime. It doesn't really work that way out of a courtroom. I am not saying "You should just assume", but when you hear the accusations, you have a right to feel one way or another about it. And you also have the right to tell people to not assume things and maybe, you know, wait for proof before joyfully destroying someone's reputation? And no-one asking people to give the accused the benefit of the doubt is denying the accusers their benefit of the doubt. Those already acting like he's definitely guilty, accusing him without proof, on the other hand, are very much denying the accused their right to the benefit of the doubt. You'd think by now people would have realized that, but then again even today I see people claim that Jerry Lawler is a pedo because he was accused once, except the accuser ended up admitting she had lied, and people are also still making jokes about Michael Jackson being a pedo even though not only was he never proven guilty, even a cursory look at the case would show that the fact it even went to trial was a farce. And then over here there was the infamous Outreau trial where half a dozen innocent people were wrongly convicted of sexual abuse against children and spent several years in jail, one of them committing suicide, before they could get a retrial. So no, I don't think it's okay to accuse someone without evidence. What actual evidence are we supposed to get, exactly? Are you not understanding the entire MO of Bill Cosby during the rapes appears to be to get women he felt he could take advantage of alone in a room so that he could drug them and get away with it without issue? I mean people can wonder why rape victims don't come out, look at some of the posts here. We have Professor Chaos saying "WELL IT HAPPENS TO MEN TOO" which yes, men are sexually assaulted as well and it's criminally underreported just as it is with women. But how exactly that's a point to make in a thread about Bill Cosby during this entire thing is beyond me. If you want more proof of Bill Cosby being a bully/asshole... deadspin.com/bill-cosby-once-publicly-bullied-a-notre-dame-football-1661325778There ya go. If you want a writer who thought he was a rapist when interviewing him before this whole thing became full on public... www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/11/the-cosby-show/382891/There ya go.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Nov 23, 2014 13:58:47 GMT -5
I really question the validity of all the rapes occurring more than 20 years ago. Sorry, first person came out to write her memoirs, and several of these other allegations are from people who would like to be part of the pile (see Janice Dickinson). If they are true, then something should be done. But I find it very suspicious that these allegations are being done with cases where nothing can really be done other than who you believe and when money is involved, you always sadly have to be suspicious. You mean 20 years ago when the public perception of rape was VASTLY different? Do you realize how grizzly of a crime rape is, and how survivors struggle with telling anybody, let alone going public with it? It's not like Cosby allegedly stole her car. It's rape. And this isn't something just coming out now. I'm pretty surprised by this thread how very few of you didn't know about these allegations. One, please don't get that tone with me because yeah, I do know how grizzly a crime rape is. Two, we have seen plenty of times just how easy it is to lie about being raped (heck, I dare say it is easier to lie and say someone raped you when they didn't than it is to tell the truth about a rape actually happening). Like I said, 20 years ago may have been a different time for rape, but that is still no excuse for the fact that it is going to be more of a fact that it is going to be more of a he said-she said situation. Just because Bill might have been an asshole behind the scenes (which we have seen he is), does not mean he did it. Like I have said in the past, there is enough reasonable doubt for me to be skeptical about all of this (the extortion case of the past being one of them).
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Nov 23, 2014 14:02:07 GMT -5
All I can say is that I feel like Michael Jacksons fans must have felt like during all of those accusations. Sucks to think of one of my icons being in a scandal like this. Hope it's a lot of untrue bullshit. But hope floats as well as shit. I have to admit I haven't followed the Bill Cosby scandal. But as a fan of Michael Jackson, I followed the accusations, lawsuits, the trial, and his interviews along with several independent online sources. The sad thing about MJ's situation is there was/is proof that he didn't do anything wrong. You still have a lot of individuals who believe he was a pedophile/child molester. As for Cosby? I'd like to believe he was/is innocent. He was a huge product of our childhood, the idea of him raping anyone is horrible, however, I think it's fair that we should ultimately wait until the facts come out.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,600
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Post by khali on Nov 23, 2014 14:09:57 GMT -5
Even though some of his gigs have been cancelled, he's now had two successful shows where he got standing ovations. He's got a show here in February, so it'll be interesting to see what happens when that rolls around. Previously, I would have gone because I loved the guy, but now I couldn't bring myself to do it.
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Professor Chaos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bringer of Destruction and Maker of Doom
Posts: 16,332
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Post by Professor Chaos on Nov 23, 2014 14:10:56 GMT -5
We have Professor Chaos saying "WELL IT HAPPENS TO MEN TOO" No I did not say that. If the man is proven guilty lock him up. I posted a personal experience which the man called FAN deleted. Guess it was too heavy for FAN's gravitational pull.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 14:24:53 GMT -5
We have Professor Chaos saying "WELL IT HAPPENS TO MEN TOO" No I did not say that. If the man is proven guilty lock him up. I posted a personal experience which the man called FAN deleted. Guess it was too heavy for FAN's gravitational pull. Too explicit.
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Post by Zombie Mod on Nov 23, 2014 14:24:53 GMT -5
We have Professor Chaos saying "WELL IT HAPPENS TO MEN TOO" No I did not say that. If the man is proven guilty lock him up. I posted a personal experience which the man called FAN deleted. Guess it was too heavy for FAN's gravitational pull. 4. SEXUAL/VIOLENT/OBSCENE IMAGERY/DISCUSSION: No pictures showing genitalia or female nipples are allowed. Censored imagery must still be tasteful and not cut things too close; no visible genitalia or other naughty bits even if blurred or censored yet still definable. No graphic depiction of gore, injury, death or bodily fluids or functions best left in the bed or bathroom. If you link to or post a video with heavy swearing, please warn ahead of time in the post. Videos with nudity are never allowed. Graphic sexual discussion is strongly discouraged and at the admins discretion will be handled accordingly.
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Professor Chaos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bringer of Destruction and Maker of Doom
Posts: 16,332
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Post by Professor Chaos on Nov 23, 2014 14:27:48 GMT -5
No I did not say that. If the man is proven guilty lock him up. I posted a personal experience which the man called FAN deleted. Guess it was too heavy for FAN's gravitational pull. Too explicit. That's cool. Just don't want someone throwing me under the bus like I condone rape when that wasn't what I said at all.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 14:34:42 GMT -5
That's cool. Just don't want someone throwing me under the bus like I condone rape when that wasn't what I said at all. If you or anyone else did that in a way that we felt made others uncomfortable or that blatantly condoned rape in such a way that would open the flood gates for arguments and flaming, we'd make a mention of it in the thread and per-emptively try to stop that from happening. We'd also lock the thread if it was too much of a problems but, since it was just a few details that went a bit too far, it was deleted without comment and without a warning issued.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Nov 23, 2014 14:41:25 GMT -5
16 accusers with similar stories? Regardless of the lack of formal criminal charges, I say legacy over.
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Post by tigermaskxxxvii on Nov 23, 2014 15:01:13 GMT -5
Between this and what the posters on the other side of the Atlantic had to deal with in reguards to the Jimmy Savile scandal, I am so glad nothing has come up in terms of accusations (whether during his life or in the eleven years since his death) have come out against Fred Rogers. Because as much of a mind f*** it is for Cliff Huxtable (and Cosby doing his own clean stand up act, Jell-O pitchman, Fat Albert, etc) to be accused of such crimes. Mr. Rogers being accused of anything in the same ball park as Cosby or Savile would probably destroy me. Never did like the uppity prick. After all the harassing he did to other comics and the finger-pointing he'd do to people who couldn't get out of poor soci-economic conditions, it turns out he was a monster this whole time. My heart and prayers go out to the women who had to deal with the grief of this for almost 30 years. In terms of him getting all sanctimonious towards certain comedians working blue, such as Eddie Murphy. It is kind of weird how there is this weird inverse relationship to how wholesome someone is publicly and how deviant they are in their private life. I mean sure, Bill Hicks, Sam Kinison, George Carlin, Richard Pryor and Lenny Bruce were no angels. They all had some run ins with the law, drug addictions and definately were not the world's best husbands/fathers (no matter how much practice Pryor had). But none of them have been accused of anything close to what Cosby has been accused of. Also kind of weird how Cosby pointed the finger at Murphy yet in Murphy's personal life, the only public scandals I can recall are the picking a transexual prostitute ("I was just giving her a ride home!") and I think a paternity suit from Mel B/Scary Spice, but even then manned up (atleast financially) when paternity was eventually proven.
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Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,700
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Post by Square on Nov 23, 2014 15:19:25 GMT -5
This has not gone to court and nothing has been proved or disproved so I don't have an opinion on this because jumping to conclusions is bad. I'll await your slanderous tweets
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Post by BorneAgain on Nov 23, 2014 15:20:41 GMT -5
Thanks a lot Bill Cosby, now my dubious impersonation of you is tasteless in addition to being hackneyed.
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 23, 2014 15:28:06 GMT -5
People are criticising him for keeping quiet. Personally I think that's the best thing he can do. With his irritating, rambling, slow style of speech, I can only imagine how much deeper he'd dig himself if he started talking.
It'd be some shit like "You see.....these peo.....ple.....sayin'......these THINGS....you see.......re.....mind me......of the time........when I was....a child.....and my neighbour.....Alfred.....who worked at a MILL......had a problem......with his dog.....and the dog.....was..."
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Post by Some Guy on Nov 23, 2014 15:28:35 GMT -5
This has not gone to court and nothing has been proved or disproved so I don't have an opinion on this because jumping to conclusions is bad. I'll await your slanderous tweets It's not going to court. How many times is this going to be brought up?
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Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,700
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Post by Square on Nov 23, 2014 15:31:27 GMT -5
This has not gone to court and nothing has been proved or disproved so I don't have an opinion on this because jumping to conclusions is bad. I'll await your slanderous tweets It's not going to court. How many times is this going to be brought up? And because its not going to court that means that the general public can play judge and jury instead? Only by a guilty prosecution can these claims be validated as true.
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Post by willywonka666 on Nov 23, 2014 15:35:03 GMT -5
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Post by Some Guy on Nov 23, 2014 15:47:26 GMT -5
It's not going to court. How many times is this going to be brought up? And because its not going to court that means that the general public can play judge and jury instead? Only by a guilty prosecution can these claims be validated as true. Oh yeah, the court system is so great in the country. Why the f*** can't we play judge and jury and think of him as guilty in our own right?
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Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,700
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Post by Square on Nov 23, 2014 15:54:59 GMT -5
And because its not going to court that means that the general public can play judge and jury instead? Only by a guilty prosecution can these claims be validated as true. Oh yeah, the court system is so great in the country. Why the f*** can't we play judge and jury and think of him as guilty in our own right? Because a) you don't have all the facts b) you are not a professional or an expert in law most probally c)the public judging and sentencing on their own terms ends up in bad places and you're siding with bad people on that idea
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Post by RedSmile on Nov 23, 2014 15:59:41 GMT -5
This has not gone to court and nothing has been proved or disproved so I don't have an opinion on this because jumping to conclusions is bad. I'll await your slanderous tweets How?
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