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Post by Mid-Carder on Feb 7, 2015 7:40:47 GMT -5
If Turner goes in, Bischoff should go in. What Bischoff did for wrestling in the 90s is kind of unfathomable. Bischoff basically just convinced someone with money that what worked in Tokyo would work in Atlanta. Literally his whole legacy could be attributed to a half hour conversation. Every single other thing he did fell between average at best and company-destroying at worst. I say this without having anything against him, it's really just a statement of fact. That's an interesting way of looking at it (and I mean that genuinely). For me, personally, Bischoff was in a position where he had nothing to lose and everything to gain with unlimited funds and took wrestling to arguably its highest heights ever. He changed wrestling by providing competition and forcing WWF to compete. In my view, there might be no Attitude Era without Bischoff scaring Vince into moving forward.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 8:23:40 GMT -5
Bischoff basically just convinced someone with money that what worked in Tokyo would work in Atlanta. Literally his whole legacy could be attributed to a half hour conversation. Every single other thing he did fell between average at best and company-destroying at worst. I say this without having anything against him, it's really just a statement of fact. That's an interesting way of looking at it (and I mean that genuinely). For me, personally, Bischoff was in a position where he had nothing to lose and everything to gain with unlimited funds and took wrestling to arguably its highest heights ever. He changed wrestling by providing competition and forcing WWF to compete. In my view, there might be no Attitude Era without Bischoff scaring Vince into moving forward. I fully agree, but you're looking at it slightly differently: Eric Bischoff didn't scare Vince into moving forward... Eric Bischoff didn't take wrestling to it's highest heights ever... Eric Bischoff didn't provide competition to the WWF... ...Ted Turner's Wallet did those things. As I said Bischoff was great in convincing Turner to reach deep and in bringing the initial nWo idea stateside, but other than that... yeah... Literally, Bischoff's major positive contribution was convincing Turner to open those purse strings. Once he HAD the money he had ZERO long term planning and really just botched everything over time. His only real plan was to sign every big name he could and give them everything (making the same mistake as you did above thinking he had "unlimited" funds, when, as we saw in the end, he didn't). WCW became "Where the Big Boys Play", and nothing else. Eric Bischoff created something tantamount to a false front, a nice looking facade, with World Championship Wrestling. It looked great, had all the top stars of recent (sometimes a bit less recent) memory and a TV deal, but behind that it was hollow and ended up hemorrhaging money and had zero stable, long-term direction. If Bischoff had any idea what to do with the money WCW would most likely still be around. Instead he blew his wad trying to scare McMahon and only ended up passing him short term until it all came crumbling down on him. Turner would have been better off bankrolling any of dozens of other minds in wrestling instead.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Feb 7, 2015 8:28:22 GMT -5
That's an interesting way of looking at it (and I mean that genuinely). For me, personally, Bischoff was in a position where he had nothing to lose and everything to gain with unlimited funds and took wrestling to arguably its highest heights ever. He changed wrestling by providing competition and forcing WWF to compete. In my view, there might be no Attitude Era without Bischoff scaring Vince into moving forward. I fully agree, but you're looking at it slightly differently: Eric Bischoff didn't scare Vince into moving forward... Eric Bischoff didn't take wrestling to it's highest heights ever... Eric Bischoff didn't provide competition to the WWF... ...Ted Turner's Wallet did those things. As I said Bischoff was great in convincing Turner to reach deep and in bringing the initial nWo idea stateside, but other than that... yeah... Literally, Bischoff's major positive contribution was convincing Turner to open those purse strings. Once he HAD the money he had ZERO long term planning and really just botched everything over time. His only real plan was to sign every big name he could and give them everything (making the same mistake as you did above thinking he had "unlimited" funds, when, as we saw in the end, he didn't). WCW became "Where the Big Boys Play", and nothing else. Eric Bischoff created something tantamount to a false front, a nice looking facade, with World Championship Wrestling. It looked great, had all the top stars of recent (sometimes a bit less recent) memory and a TV deal, but behind that it was hollow and ended up hemorrhaging money and had zero stable, long-term direction. If Bischoff had any idea what to do with the money WCW would most likely still be around. Instead he blew his wad trying to scare McMahon and only ended up passing him short term until it all came crumbling down on him. Turner would have been better off bankrolling any of dozens of other minds in wrestling instead. You're right about his long-term planning but the money still wouldn't have been enough. Bischoff also had business savvy and ruthless ambition. It's definitely "hollow" success, as you said, but it's still success. His success with WCW led to the Monday Night Wars, which affected wrestling as a business for the better. Surely that alone justifies a Hall of Fame place?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 9:39:09 GMT -5
I fully agree, but you're looking at it slightly differently: Eric Bischoff didn't scare Vince into moving forward... Eric Bischoff didn't take wrestling to it's highest heights ever... Eric Bischoff didn't provide competition to the WWF... ...Ted Turner's Wallet did those things. As I said Bischoff was great in convincing Turner to reach deep and in bringing the initial nWo idea stateside, but other than that... yeah... Literally, Bischoff's major positive contribution was convincing Turner to open those purse strings. Once he HAD the money he had ZERO long term planning and really just botched everything over time. His only real plan was to sign every big name he could and give them everything (making the same mistake as you did above thinking he had "unlimited" funds, when, as we saw in the end, he didn't). WCW became "Where the Big Boys Play", and nothing else. Eric Bischoff created something tantamount to a false front, a nice looking facade, with World Championship Wrestling. It looked great, had all the top stars of recent (sometimes a bit less recent) memory and a TV deal, but behind that it was hollow and ended up hemorrhaging money and had zero stable, long-term direction. If Bischoff had any idea what to do with the money WCW would most likely still be around. Instead he blew his wad trying to scare McMahon and only ended up passing him short term until it all came crumbling down on him. Turner would have been better off bankrolling any of dozens of other minds in wrestling instead. You're right about his long-term planning but the money still wouldn't have been enough. Bischoff also had business savvy and ruthless ambition. It's definitely "hollow" success, as you said, but it's still success. His success with WCW led to the Monday Night Wars, which affected wrestling as a business for the better. Surely that alone justifies a Hall of Fame place? My point was that what Bischoff did in WCW can't really be considered "success" unless his goals were to burn out fast and really only leave a lasting legacy of inspiring his competition. Looking back, yes, Bischoff's actions (and Vince's in return) did define the industry, but that's not really an indication of Bischoff's success. I will also flat out argue against your statement that Bischoff had business savvy. At least he was not "wrestling business" savvy. Bischoff's bright idea was to put everything into passing WWF short term to make Turner smile. He accomplished this by shoving piles of cash into barrels and setting them on fire. Anyone with true business savvy would have recognized that long-term returns mean much more than short term Controver$y and would have turned that fire into a slow, escalating burn. Bischoff went the bonfire route. It was seen from space (and knocked Vinnie Mac on his ass) but burnt out just as quickly. It got his name in the record books and on the tongue of people like you, but in the end it was as I said, hollow. Shortsighted and hollow. It could have been much, much more, and in the hands of someone other than Eric from Autumn '96, it might have been.
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The Heenan Family
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Post by The Heenan Family on Feb 7, 2015 10:17:01 GMT -5
This was from 2011. www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2011/0112/535505/I don't know how much truth there was to the Turner part considering absolutely none of the people talked about in that observer story were inducted that year, but if Turner didn't get in while they were in Atlanta, I doubt he'll be on the table in San Francisco, Dallas, Philadelphia or anywhere else.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 10:49:27 GMT -5
The third inductee will be announced on Monday
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 7, 2015 12:24:33 GMT -5
It'd probably be someone alive and not a celebrity, so... Fingers crossed for Demolition or Rick Martel.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2015 11:18:03 GMT -5
Would have figured Ray Stevens would have been in already, but I'm on board. Only questions are who inducts him and who accepts? And Pat Patterson can't do both. Bobby's in ill health, as is Nick Bockwinkel. Maybe Mean Gene can induct. (Or, as Heenan said in his speech, "indicted".)
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Feb 9, 2015 2:40:31 GMT -5
I figure Pat would do the induction, someone from Ray's family will accept.
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Post by PTBartman on Feb 9, 2015 8:06:03 GMT -5
I figure Pat would do the induction, someone from Ray's family will accept. Just have the other Ray Stevens accept. I mean, if they could hire the wrong one legged wrestler. why not have the wrong Ray Stevens accept.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 8:48:40 GMT -5
Would have figured Ray Stevens would have been in already, but I'm on board. I can only imagine that Kevin Dunn is backstage bitching that "Nobody knows who Ray Stevens is"
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Feb 9, 2015 10:42:29 GMT -5
All I care is that at least, one of the following tag teams goes in:
Demolition Rock N Roll Express Midnight Express
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 10:47:16 GMT -5
All I care is that at least, one of the following tag teams goes in: Demolition Rock N Roll Express Midnight Express Agreed. The Freebirds deserve to go in as well, but they'd be an absolute no-brainer (if not a necessity to fill a 100,000+ stadium) next year in Texas.
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Feb 9, 2015 13:45:22 GMT -5
All I care is that at least, one of the following tag teams goes in: Demolition Rock N Roll Express Midnight Express Agreed. The Freebirds deserve to go in as well, but they'd be an absolute no-brainer (if not a necessity to fill a 100,000+ stadium) next year in Texas. I'd also love to see the British Bulldogs go in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 14:46:50 GMT -5
Agreed. The Freebirds deserve to go in as well, but they'd be an absolute no-brainer (if not a necessity to fill a 100,000+ stadium) next year in Texas. I'd also love to see the British Bulldogs go in. They deserve it, and I'm probably being really morbid, but I'd rather they wait til Dynamite passes...
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Steveweiser
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Post by Steveweiser on Feb 9, 2015 17:05:15 GMT -5
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Feb 9, 2015 17:09:05 GMT -5
Rikishi would fit because WWE.com gave a clue that he's from a legendary family that might be the Harts and might be the Anoa'i family.
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Post by Sponsored by Groose Wipes on Feb 9, 2015 17:11:35 GMT -5
I'm not going to say he should not be in the HOF but there's a good amount of other people I'd put in before him.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 17:32:50 GMT -5
There's no way that the Usos would announce this without the full consent of WWE right?
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Post by Mayonnaise on Feb 9, 2015 17:35:07 GMT -5
There's no way that the Usos would announce this without the full consent of WWE right? Yeah, this is like Punk posting pics of Heyman before his return or any of the times they've done this with Lesnar, only more time between "leak" and happening. A strategic release for hype.
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