Urethra Franklin
King Koopa
When Toronto sports teams lose, Alison Brie is sad
Posts: 11,088
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Feb 9, 2015 2:51:37 GMT -5
Like others have said, I take no issue with it as long It doesn't interfere with establishing a new gimmick like Ethan Carter or Bram.
Really, it's a bit of a catch-22 for TNA and any other company for that matter.
On the one hand, it looks foolish if you don't acknowledge the elephant in the room (For example, everybody knows Tyrus is Brodus Clay, so why insult our intelligence by feigning ignorance as to who he is?), but on the flip side, you get crapped on for attempting to coattail ride if you do (Why bring up Brodus if he's supposed to be Tyrus?)
People are going to be unhappy either way.
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Post by Bram wants to 'urt you on Feb 9, 2015 8:27:35 GMT -5
It's not really a war when one side is only armed with spoons. That's a good one, that's a very good one. I like that. I'm guessing you're not Doctor Who fans. Because the Doctor defeated Robin Hood, in a swordfight, armed with a spoon. I see a gimmick forming...
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Post by James Fabiano on Feb 9, 2015 10:00:12 GMT -5
It was cooler when mentioning the competition was more "taboo", i.e. pre-Monday Night Wars. Which was what made GWF's Pedicino-era commentary cool, and of course ECW (for whom it was perfectly OK to take shots at everyone else, just sayin')
And other moments like when Rick Rude was on the talk show format of WCWSN and the guest host asked him point blank why he left the WWF. 15 year old me gasped.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Feb 9, 2015 10:11:57 GMT -5
I don't mind the wrestlers talking about titles and accolades they won in other promotions, but other than that, no thanks. It's one thing if they're just bolstering their credibility, it was something totally different back when TNA were taking little jabs at WWE (and ROH now and then) trying to get the big dogs to bite.
Most of the time I prefer when companies stick to their own universe. Even if it's a podunk indie, it gives me the sense that THEIR world title is the one that truly matters. When I hear them just randomly bring up their time in WWE or elsewhere, sometimes it takes me out of that.
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adamclark52
El Dandy
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Post by adamclark52 on Feb 9, 2015 16:33:47 GMT -5
That's a good one, that's a very good one. I like that. I'm guessing you're not Doctor Who fans. Because the Doctor defeated Robin Hood, in a swordfight, armed with a spoon. I see a gimmick forming... I do like Doctor Who, but I've never seen that one.
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Essential1
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Essential1 on Feb 9, 2015 21:49:29 GMT -5
It's like they are trying to sound cool to new fans or something. Thing is, nobody cares about Kharmas run in the WWE.
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Emmet Russell
King Koopa
Quieter
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Post by Emmet Russell on Feb 9, 2015 22:00:05 GMT -5
It's like they are trying to sound cool to new fans or something. Thing is, nobody cares about Kharmas run in the WWE. I can guarantee most don't even remember it. It wasn't exactly memorable.
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Toates Madhackrviper
King Koopa
Is owed an Admin life-debt.
This avatar is so far out of date I might as well stick with it forever now.
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Feb 10, 2015 5:28:39 GMT -5
In my perfect ideal world each wrestling company would be a totally separate entity that had its own self contained canon. Where things that happened in other companies are not mentioned. Vague statements like "they wrestled around the world" or "they are a superstar free agent" would be fine, but nothing more than that. Hell things brought in from the real world or backstage stuff wouldn't be brought on screen without being explicitly developed on screen either. No backstage couples suddenly appearing together without having onscreen development anymore. Just like any other TV show. Basically the ideal would be to have a product that an alien with knowledge of or access to anything BUT the TV program and ppvs could watch the product from start to finish and never once be confused. It would make wrestling a hell of a lot more enjoyable for me.
But its not the reality of how pro wrestling works. And so within the wrestling world we do have Josh making benign references to the WWE without trying to take potshots and without undermining the ECIIIs of the world is fine in my eyes. I don't think its necissarily necessary in cases like Kong and Tyrus, but I take no strong beef with it.
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Feb 10, 2015 9:53:27 GMT -5
Josh wasn't taking shots, he was mentioning accolades and recognizing the past so as to give background on the wrestlers. Companies like the AWA, WCW and even the WWE have done it in the past to establish credibility. I know that whenever TNA mentions anything related to the WWE that everyone gets up in arms about it, but there's nothing to get upset about here.
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Post by Chip Chipperson on Feb 10, 2015 14:48:23 GMT -5
Josh wasn't taking shots, he was mentioning accolades and recognizing the past so as to give background on the wrestlers. Companies like the AWA, WCW and even the WWE have done it in the past to establish credibility. I know that whenever TNA mentions anything related to the WWE that everyone gets up in arms about it, but there's nothing to get upset about here. I thought this thread was about him doing it in general. Matthews has done it countless times and I believe in the first hour of his first Impact he had already taken a couple of shots at WWE.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Feb 10, 2015 14:53:42 GMT -5
In my perfect ideal world each wrestling company would be a totally separate entity that had its own self contained canon. Where things that happened in other companies are not mentioned. Vague statements like "they wrestled around the world" or "they are a superstar free agent" would be fine, but nothing more than that. Hell things brought in from the real world or backstage stuff wouldn't be brought on screen without being explicitly developed on screen either. No backstage couples suddenly appearing together without having onscreen development anymore. Just like any other TV show. Basically the ideal would be to have a product that an alien with knowledge of or access to anything BUT the TV program and ppvs could watch the product from start to finish and never once be confused. It would make wrestling a hell of a lot more enjoyable for me. But its not the reality of how pro wrestling works. And so within the wrestling world we do have Josh making benign references to the WWE without trying to take potshots and without undermining the ECIIIs of the world is fine in my eyes. I don't think its necissarily necessary in cases like Kong and Tyrus, but I take no strong beef with it. I feel that since wrestling is supposed to be "real", all wrestling promotions should exist in the same canon unless it's a "concept" like Lucha Underground or CHIKARA. Wrestling promotions should mention their wrestlers' outside accolades the same way the NFL will bring up a football player's college career or the UFC will mention an MMA fighter's total fight record or their backgrounds in other martial arts. If Robbie E is currently the Heavyweight Champion for a small indy in Texas, then that should be brought up. Ideally, there wouldn't BE an ECIII. I mean, he'd have the actual young cocky hotshot gimmick and all, but he should still be called Derrick Bateman. The only thing that would change is his relation to Dixie.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 10, 2015 17:17:17 GMT -5
Josh wasn't taking shots, he was mentioning accolades and recognizing the past so as to give background on the wrestlers. Companies like the AWA, WCW and even the WWE have done it in the past to establish credibility. I know that whenever TNA mentions anything related to the WWE that everyone gets up in arms about it, but there's nothing to get upset about here. I thought this thread was about him doing it in general. Matthews has done it countless times and I believe in the first hour of his first Impact he had already taken a couple of shots at WWE. I created this thread to talk about him doing it in general not about him taking shots. Don't know what he's talking about people getting up in arms about.
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Feb 10, 2015 18:20:46 GMT -5
I ain't mad about it. Just feel like I'm watching smackdown
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Toates Madhackrviper
King Koopa
Is owed an Admin life-debt.
This avatar is so far out of date I might as well stick with it forever now.
Posts: 10,722
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Feb 10, 2015 21:22:57 GMT -5
In my perfect ideal world each wrestling company would be a totally separate entity that had its own self contained canon. Where things that happened in other companies are not mentioned. Vague statements like "they wrestled around the world" or "they are a superstar free agent" would be fine, but nothing more than that. Hell things brought in from the real world or backstage stuff wouldn't be brought on screen without being explicitly developed on screen either. No backstage couples suddenly appearing together without having onscreen development anymore. Just like any other TV show. Basically the ideal would be to have a product that an alien with knowledge of or access to anything BUT the TV program and ppvs could watch the product from start to finish and never once be confused. It would make wrestling a hell of a lot more enjoyable for me. But its not the reality of how pro wrestling works. And so within the wrestling world we do have Josh making benign references to the WWE without trying to take potshots and without undermining the ECIIIs of the world is fine in my eyes. I don't think its necissarily necessary in cases like Kong and Tyrus, but I take no strong beef with it. I feel that since wrestling is supposed to be "real", all wrestling promotions should exist in the same canon unless it's a "concept" like Lucha Underground or CHIKARA. Wrestling promotions should mention their wrestlers' outside accolades the same way the NFL will bring up a football player's college career or the UFC will mention an MMA fighter's total fight record or their backgrounds in other martial arts. If Robbie E is currently the Heavyweight Champion for a small indy in Texas, then that should be brought up. Ideally, there wouldn't BE an ECIII. I mean, he'd have the actual young cocky hotshot gimmick and all, but he should still be called Derrick Bateman. The only thing that would change is his relation to Dixie. I'd be fine with most of wrestling other than specialty projects sharing a single canon as long as it was consistent and still isolated from the "real world". Yeah, no entirely no characters unless they were made unrecognizable by repackaging would be part of that. My main issue is when the "real world" is brought into the show without explanation. Things like Triple H and Steph being all of a sudden treated as a married couple because it was an open secret to almost everyone don't work for me because of that hypothetical alien theory I mentioned above. From that hypothetical alien's perspective last they saw Trips and Steph were divorced. And now suddenly they've been married all along because thats whats true in "real life"? To use a TNA example there's also the Chris Sabin/Velvet Sky relationship being used for on screen stuff without them getting any onscreen development together. They were just suddenly together because the people behind the characters are irl. It would be like Kate and Charlie from LOST suddenly being together with no explanation because they actors are dating. To me I'd rather see Velvet Sky and Chris Sabin as characters and it takes me out of the suspension of disbelief to have the "Real world" be brought into that. Celebrity appearances or wrestlers with public notoriety outside of wrestling (like David Otunga) would be harder to manage, but I'd have no problem with that as long as it was explained on the show where they come from and as long as no continuity problems come from the acknowledgment. Like if you're gonna have Snooki come to Wrestlemania you have to explain who Snooki is and put Jersey Shore in the WWE/wrestling world's canon in some way. Like discuss it on TV shows on the road to wrestlemania. Or even on the preshow or something. As long as the hypothetical alien can understand who she is its fine, but if you just throw her on there with no explanation because she was famous when the show was made... if it doesnt make sense if the show is in a vacuum then I can't be with it. Think about it from the perspective of someone watching that Wrestlemania decades from now too. There are a lot of little quirks that come from that which a lot of wrestling fans who prefer to see wrestling as a legit sport that takes place in the real world can not understand. I don't mind wrestling moves that look "unrealistic" or like "they wouldnt really hurt" as long as they work within the internal logic of the wrestling universe, I don't mind much smaller wrestlers being able to beat much larger wrestlers, or intergender matches where the woman wins and isn't even the underdog, or moves that are a deadly finisher in one wrestling character's hands but a regular transitional move in another's. Cause to me wrestling is a TV show with the right to its own internal logic and canon as any other TV show. But all the interferences from the real world and shit make it harder for most people to see it that way, and thats a frustration for me and my personal tastes. The only things about wrestling as a whole that tend to bother me are things that don't even make sense from my perspective on it. Like a heel turning face and suddenly the same guy who was his hated enemy a few weeks ago is his unquestioned ally. Or sudden character changes with no gradual development or explanation at all. I'd rather see much more realistic character development and character relationships. Of course that all is completely impossible and I recognize that. There's no way I can have that and I never will, not even within a single company. Thus my making concessions to the realities of wrestling in so many ways. And in this wrestling world I think that its better to protect ECIII by never mentioning his past as Derrick Bateman. I meant to make a thread about this someday and might still.
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 10, 2015 22:14:54 GMT -5
Josh wasn't taking shots, he was mentioning accolades and recognizing the past so as to give background on the wrestlers. Companies like the AWA, WCW and even the WWE have done it in the past to establish credibility. I know that whenever TNA mentions anything related to the WWE that everyone gets up in arms about it, but there's nothing to get upset about here. I thought this thread was about him doing it in general. Matthews has done it countless times and I believe in the first hour of his first Impact he had already taken a couple of shots at WWE. When did he do that?
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Post by Bram wants to 'urt you on Feb 18, 2015 16:47:56 GMT -5
I'm guessing you're not Doctor Who fans. Because the Doctor defeated Robin Hood, in a swordfight, armed with a spoon. I see a gimmick forming... I do like Doctor Who, but I've never seen that one. Most recent season, episode with Peter Capaldi in it
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Feb 18, 2015 17:12:58 GMT -5
Getting to the topic from this example- this does tie into the same issue- with pro wrestling, you can't have it both ways for sports entertainment.
The biggest problem with referring to WWE or any other promotions to increase someone's aura in your promotion, is it hinders the things you can DO with that person. Using the TNA examples- with people like EC3, he became a star- as Ethan Carter III- but if they mentioned he was Derrick Bateman in the WWE? Suddenly, you can't do the same things that you could do with Ethan Carter III. Even if Derrick Bateman was a relatively unknown person in WWE- people still know that Derrick Bateman isn't related to Dixie Carter in any meaningful way outside of "every human on earth is a member of the same species and thus very, very, very distantly related"- and suddenly, the EC3 gimmick is dead in the water before it even started.
By mentioning a person's past in pro wrestling, you're taking away all the things you can do in the future with them. Just like, for the bumping topic, Doctor Who won't say in their storylines "The new Doctor used to be Malcolm Tucker", saying that "Mr.Anderson was Mr.Kennedy in WWE!" dramatically hinders what you can do with him, because suddenly a level of possibilities to debut a new gimmick for the wrestler and make him something more are stricken for the record in favor of the quick-fix "win now" motive of "It's Mr.Kennedy! In TNA!"...which has led to Mr.Anderson becoming worthless once everything interesting Mr.Kennedy could do in TNA got used up and no one cares about Mr.Kennedy anymore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 21:54:10 GMT -5
Josh used to bring up indy histories back on WWE Velocity in the day. For example, he talked about Kendrick's ROH and even Zero-One background a bit during his matches.
Calling current TNA wrestlers by their WWE names is weird, yes, but there's at least some background to what he's doing, I guess.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 21, 2015 21:57:14 GMT -5
Josh used to bring up indy histories back on WWE Velocity in the day. For example, he talked about Kendrick's ROH and even Zero-One background a bit during his matches. Calling current TNA wrestlers by their WWE names is weird, yes, but there's at least some background to what he's doing, I guess. Really? I guess it's good for him to have extensive knowledge but I rather him focus on bringing up the current character then focusing on their background. At least be vague like WWE is doing with Zayn/Owens/Neville saying they've traveled all around the world honing their craft and now they are in the big leagues.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 22:23:06 GMT -5
Josh used to bring up indy histories back on WWE Velocity in the day. For example, he talked about Kendrick's ROH and even Zero-One background a bit during his matches. Calling current TNA wrestlers by their WWE names is weird, yes, but there's at least some background to what he's doing, I guess. Really? I guess it's good for him to have extensive knowledge but I rather him focus on bringing up the current character then focusing on their background. At least be vague like WWE is doing with Zayn/Owens/Neville saying they've traveled all around the world honing their craft and now they are in the big leagues. Yeah, but there is value in at least acknowledging other companies, I think. Pretending you're the only game in town is kind of ignorant these days (and even 10 years ago when Velocity was around). In that particular instance, IIRC, Kendrick had just come back to the WWE and Josh was talking about where he'd been the last 1-2 years. He didn't go into great detail, which makes sense, just giving some wider scope to Kendrick. It's a good acknowledgement, as well, to how knowledgeable the audience is these days. They can't really treat us like dummies who have zero clue what's going on and, amongst other things, where wrestlers go when they're not in the WWE.
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