mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Feb 17, 2015 14:31:08 GMT -5
Dude was stale in 1999. Granted, I dumped him for The Rock the second Rocky truned face and have never looked back. Stale or not in 1999, he then had a year out so he wasn't exactly stale when he came back.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Feb 17, 2015 15:30:11 GMT -5
The heel turn was meant to be the equivalent of the Hogan BatB '96 turn, but on a bigger event (WM X-7). Two issues. Number one, Hogan's heel turn was absolutely necessary for Hogan's career by that point. His watered down version of Hulkamania had gone completely thin, especially after that awful Dungeon of Doom angle. And number two, what was the logic behind it? His 'I don't owe anyone an explanation' can be translated as 'Vince and Co. don't have one'. The WWE claims they're in the business of telling a story, but there was no story behind it. It's one of the many increasing examples that plagued the WWE in the early 2000s. Shock for the sake of shock. But there was a story. One month prior to WMX7, Austin lost clean as a sheet to the guy with whom he was in a blood feud, with the guy who tried to end his career back in 1999. Austin doubted whether he could still go as a result, so he made the 'deal with the devil' to ensure that he would win the WWF title against the Rock, because he knew in a straight match without shenanigans, after what happened at No Way Out 2001, that he couldn't beat the Rock. Then he became paranoid and delusional in a mad attempt to keep the WWF title as the younger guys, the Hardy Boyz, Jericho, Benoit, were nipping at his heels and the older guys, Kane and the Undertaker, were serious threats to his success. And then the Invasion happened, and because WWF couldn't get the big names out of their Turner contracts (besides Booker T and DDP), they had to rely on one of their own guys, their top guy (who was also a former WCW and ECW guy as well) to turn heel to give the Alliance a bit of a rub. Kurt Angle then stepped up to be the WWF's golden boy at Summerslam and Unforgiven, actually winning the WWF title as the WWF and American hero after 9/11, in Angle's hometown no less. But then the Alliance screwed Angle out of the WWF title. But Austin's paranoia and delusions re-emerged, having already gone full-blown crazy with the what's? and talking to his watch, when Rob Van Dam was more popular and beloved than he was, so he then set his sights on RVD. What hurt all of this story was that the night after Survivor Series, the WWF basically rebooted the show, and Austin became a face again and Angle became a heel again, when Angle's double-double cross was part of the reason the WWF won in the first place. There was a story there. The Invasion taints a lot of this in hindsight because, I think, people judge it for what it could have been, had the WWF picked up the NWO, Goldberg, Rey Mysterio, Flair, etc, and not for what the angle actually was as it unfolded on TV. They were able to book 8 months of pretty decent TV and PPVs around Austin's turns in 2001. There's no way, I suspect, they could have filled that time by keeping with the status quo of Austin as the mega-face, which, yes, I feel was stale at the time. Great post. I like to think Austin snapped in 2001 and went crazy, turning into a paranoid, delusional, violent, backstabbing coward.
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Post by TheSchattenjager on Feb 17, 2015 15:36:52 GMT -5
They should have made him Corporate Austin.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Feb 17, 2015 15:41:17 GMT -5
They should have made him Corporate Austin. Him and HHH did enter the ring to 'No Chance' once.
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Post by bmfjules on Feb 17, 2015 17:31:56 GMT -5
There is a difference between being stale and not being as WHITE HOT as he was during the peak of 1998.
He wasn't nearly as hot by 2001 as he had been but he was still way too over to ever contemplate turning him.
To me he never threatened getting stale until that run with Bischoff where he, as a babyface, all but made a joke out of the serious ass kicking character that I had loved so much as a teenager.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 17:48:56 GMT -5
Stone Cold got hellaciously stale.
You tend to rose tint guys that were megastars like he and Rocky, but not every second was magic. I don't know if the writing got lazy or they just plum ran out of ideas or what, but he eventually got so formulaic that it was cringeworthy.
He's a strong performer, so he powered through a lot of crap, but I distinctly recall getting into "here we go again *sigh*" territory with Steve.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Feb 17, 2015 17:56:43 GMT -5
No joke, 2001 heel Austin may be my favourite character in wrestling history. Bad business move? Maybe. Entertaining as hell move? God yes.
Also, face Kurt Angle fighting heel Austin made for a refreshing change of pace...until they retconned the whole thing after Survivor Series.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Feb 17, 2015 17:59:49 GMT -5
Stone Cold got hellaciously stale. You tend to rose tint guys that were megastars like he and Rocky, but not every second was magic. I don't know if the writing got lazy or they just plum ran out of ideas or what, but he eventually got so formulaic that it was cringeworthy. He's a strong performer, so he powered through a lot of crap, but I distinctly recall getting into "here we go again *sigh*" territory with Steve. I dunno, I think I would of liked to have seen a few more years out of him had he been healthy. I guess you could argue he was stale (but then apparently every babyface is stale) by the end of 1999 once his feud with Vince was over, but by then he was actually kind of helping Vince and on the same page. He'd been rolling along as the anti authority guy since 97. The year out due to injury rejuvenated him and so I don't think he was stale in his face run in 2000/2001. The heel turn, warranted or not, freshened him up. He basically became a different character. He was stale in 2002 though as a face because they just tried to recreate 1998. So I argue that Austin was only 'stale' (and indeed sucked)in 2002 only. 2003 he had a fun little run and good match with Rock. I didn't like any of his post in ring career stuff like Sherriff Austin but that doesn't count.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Feb 17, 2015 18:01:51 GMT -5
No joke, 2001 heel Austin may be my favourite character in wrestling history. Bad business move? Maybe. Entertaining as hell move? God yes. Also, face Kurt Angle fighting heel Austin made for a refreshing change of pace...until they retconned the whole thing after Survivor Series. There were some great nuances to that bastard of a heel he portrayed in 2001. Like I don't remember which episode but he is sat on a couch with Debra and Stephanie (who is alligned with them) bursts in and he jumps in fright. But then he is like "You scared the hell out of Debra! All due respect!" Then at the end of the segment he tries to open a beer can, but seems to be incredibly nervous about it. It pops and he does a nervous laugh, looking at Debra and Stephanie, unsure of himself. It's hard to explain but it was comic gold.
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