mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Feb 17, 2015 11:13:24 GMT -5
Stone Cold has said he was feeling a little bit flat/stale as a babyface in 2001 so he turned heel. I don't think he was stale at all at that point. In fact Austin's 2000/2001 6 month babyface run may be my finest memory of ol' Stone Cold. I probably got back into wrestling again (thanks to Austin) in late 1998. So after a year of Austin kicking ass he gets run over in late 1999, so I spent most of 2000 enjoying the WWF, but just waiting for my favorite, Stone Cold Steve Austin, to come back. He finally did and it was great. Sure, the "who ran over Stone Cold" story (plus it being Rikishi) was not brilliant, but from there he had some great, memorable moments and his matches were vastly improved on his 98/99 efforts. He was in that unbelievably epic 6 man Hell in a Cell and his feud with HHH was one of the most intense I have ever seen. Their hatred was so believable. He was crazy over with the crowd (and now he had new opponents like Kurt Angle to take on which was another excellent factor) and slotted right back in with Rock as the top two stars. They were neck and neck in popularity and I would argue that as WMX7 came into view, Austin started to overtake Rock once again. Then he turned heel and of course it devastated the 14 year old me. I basically stopped watching, which in retrospect is a shame because he was an entertaining heel. So, what do you think of Austin's 2000/2001 babyface run? I highly enjoyed it. Did you think he was flat? Did you think he was out of place? I also loved how Smackdown at the time just seemed an extension of RAW and Austin, Rock, the dastardly HHH etc would all appear on both shows. In my opinion he had no reason to turn heel and would easily have stayed the most marketable and popular star of the rest of 2001 had he stayed face.  |
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Post by TheSchattenjager on Feb 17, 2015 11:19:03 GMT -5
When Austin came back, it was like he was still living in 1998/1999, while the rest of the roster had moved on into 2000/2001. He seemed out of place. However, he was crazy over, still, so yes, you do have a point. And heel Austin had no one to work with.
2001 heel Austin is the only Austin I've really enjoyed, but it's been well documented that the turn was not a good business decision.
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Post by bigjohnsons on Feb 17, 2015 11:21:19 GMT -5
We got that HHH/ Sheriff Austin skit which Is probably the funniest Triple H moment of all time
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Post by TheSchattenjager on Feb 17, 2015 11:22:19 GMT -5
We got that HHH/ Sheriff Austin skit which Is probably the funniest Triple H moment of all time But that was in 2003, I think. Or 2004. |
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Post by bigjohnsons on Feb 17, 2015 11:23:05 GMT -5
We got that HHH/ Sheriff Austin skit which Is probably the funniest Triple H moment of all time But that was in 2003, I think. Or 2004.  |
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Post by TheSchattenjager on Feb 17, 2015 11:23:25 GMT -5
But that was in 2003, I think. Or 2004. |
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TGM
Hank Scorpio
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Post by TGM on Feb 17, 2015 11:34:24 GMT -5
No way was he stale in 2001. From a purely wrestling stand point, he had the best matches of his career.
By Vengeance he'd start to look a bit out of place because the roster was too packed for it to be 1998's Stone Cold show.
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Feb 17, 2015 11:37:22 GMT -5
No way was he stale in 2001. From a purely wrestling stand point, he had the best matches of his career. By Vengeance he'd start to look a bit out of place because the roster was too packed for it to be 1998's Stone Cold show. Agreed. But I specifically meant Austin's babyface return and run in late 2000 till his heel turn at Mania X7. For the record I do not think he was stale either |
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Post by JTG Fan on Feb 17, 2015 11:39:42 GMT -5
I was an Austin fan getting my first real taste of him since I really started watching the WWF during his injury absence, so I enjoyed it, but it definitely felt as though he was kind of just spinning his wheels and as TheSchattenjager said, felt like he was stuck in 98/99 instead of 00/01. Like interrupting all the matches was original then but now it felt played out. Same for stunning Commissioner Foley for suspending him, which would have gotten a pop a year or two before but in October 200 felt like Austin was being a dick.
I think the heel turn was a great idea that was brilliantly executed but just didn't have anywhere to go outside of turning Triple H face the night after Mania.
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Post by TheSchattenjager on Feb 17, 2015 11:41:08 GMT -5
No way was he stale in 2001. From a purely wrestling stand point, he had the best matches of his career. By Vengeance he'd start to look a bit out of place because the roster was too packed for it to be 1998's Stone Cold show. By 2002, he was DEFINITELY out of place. With all caps, I sure hope I spelt "definitely" right. After Survivor Series, they just hit the big reset button, forgot all character development in the past 12 months, and it was like a parody of the 1998 Stone Cold. I think there could have maybe been some money in a rehash of the 1996/1997 Stone Cold. Turn him babyface, sort of, kind of, but have him feel betrayed by the WWF and everybody after the Alliance angle, and have him gradually revert to his cold-blooded "f*** everything" persona. You can still do it in a babyface manner, just like in 1997. It would have been better than just a simple, overnight character reset. |
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Feb 17, 2015 11:54:44 GMT -5
No way was he stale in 2001. From a purely wrestling stand point, he had the best matches of his career. By Vengeance he'd start to look a bit out of place because the roster was too packed for it to be 1998's Stone Cold show. By 2002, he was DEFINITELY out of place. With all caps, I sure hope I spelt "definitely" right. After Survivor Series, they just hit the big reset button, forgot all character development in the past 12 months, and it was like a parody of the 1998 Stone Cold. I think there could have maybe been some money in a rehash of the 1996/1997 Stone Cold. Turn him babyface, sort of, kind of, but have him feel betrayed by the WWF and everybody after the Alliance angle, and have him gradually revert to his cold-blooded "f*** everything" persona. You can still do it in a babyface manner, just like in 1997. It would have been better than just a simple, overnight character reset. Agreed but what I would have done would have been to not turn him heel at Invasion 2001. Keep the first WMX7 heel turn which did rejuvenate Austin with shades of 97 Austin, but then after he ran out to save Team WWF and "parted the red sea" he was as over as he has ever been, ever! Then he randomly turned heel again at Invasion 2001. Shame. The fans clamoured for the "old Stone Cold" and they got him and it was awesome. He could have spent the rest of 2001 as a face/edgy 97 tweener Austin who you can't trust. |
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Post by thegame415 on Feb 17, 2015 12:12:45 GMT -5
He was more stale after turning face post Alliance angle. He wasn't the underdog anymore.
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Post by TheSchattenjager on Feb 17, 2015 13:47:18 GMT -5
By 2002, he was DEFINITELY out of place. With all caps, I sure hope I spelt "definitely" right. After Survivor Series, they just hit the big reset button, forgot all character development in the past 12 months, and it was like a parody of the 1998 Stone Cold. I think there could have maybe been some money in a rehash of the 1996/1997 Stone Cold. Turn him babyface, sort of, kind of, but have him feel betrayed by the WWF and everybody after the Alliance angle, and have him gradually revert to his cold-blooded "f*** everything" persona. You can still do it in a babyface manner, just like in 1997. It would have been better than just a simple, overnight character reset. Agreed but what I would have done would have been to not turn him heel at Invasion 2001. Keep the first WMX7 heel turn which did rejuvenate Austin with shades of 97 Austin, but then after he ran out to save Team WWF and "parted the red sea" he was as over as he has ever been, ever! Then he randomly turned heel again at Invasion 2001. Shame. The fans clamoured for the "old Stone Cold" and they got him and it was awesome. He could have spent the rest of 2001 as a face/edgy 97 tweener Austin who you can't trust. The quasi-face turn prior to the InVasion PPV really was a way out of the mess the WWE booked themselves into by turning Austin heel in the first place. It was offered to them on a silver platter. But they refused to take it. |
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Post by Next Level was WRONG on Feb 17, 2015 14:01:50 GMT -5
Dude was stale in 1999. Granted, I dumped him for The Rock the second Rocky truned face and have never looked back.
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Lancers
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Post by Lancers on Feb 17, 2015 14:04:46 GMT -5
The heel turn was meant to be the equivalent of the Hogan BatB '96 turn, but on a bigger event (WM X-7). Two issues. Number one, Hogan's heel turn was absolutely necessary for Hogan's career by that point. His watered down version of Hulkamania had gone completely thin, especially after that awful Dungeon of Doom angle.
And number two, what was the logic behind it? His 'I don't owe anyone an explanation' can be translated as 'Vince and Co. don't have one'. The WWE claims they're in the business of telling a story, but there was no story behind it. It's one of the many increasing examples that plagued the WWE in the early 2000s. Shock for the sake of shock.
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Post by TheSchattenjager on Feb 17, 2015 14:12:10 GMT -5
The heel turn was meant to be the equivalent of the Hogan BatB '96 turn, but on a bigger event (WM X-7). Two issues. Number one, Hogan's heel turn was absolutely necessary for Hogan's career by that point. His watered down version of Hulkamania had gone completely thin, especially after that awful Dungeon of Doom angle. And number two, what was the logic behind it? His 'I don't owe anyone an explanation' can be translated as 'Vince and Co. don't have one'. The WWE claims they're in the business of telling a story, but there was no story behind it. It's one of the many increasing examples that plagued the WWE in the early 2000s. Shock for the sake of shock. The story was that he HAD to win. Just had to win. They did explain it prior to WrestleMania. The sit down interview with The Rock explains the heel turn. |
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Feb 17, 2015 14:23:38 GMT -5
The heel turn was meant to be the equivalent of the Hogan BatB '96 turn, but on a bigger event (WM X-7). Two issues. Number one, Hogan's heel turn was absolutely necessary for Hogan's career by that point. His watered down version of Hulkamania had gone completely thin, especially after that awful Dungeon of Doom angle. And number two, what was the logic behind it? His 'I don't owe anyone an explanation' can be translated as 'Vince and Co. don't have one'. The WWE claims they're in the business of telling a story, but there was no story behind it. It's one of the many increasing examples that plagued the WWE in the early 2000s. Shock for the sake of shock. The story was that he HAD to win. Just had to win. They did explain it prior to WrestleMania. The sit down interview with The Rock explains the heel turn. Yeah, Austin's "I *need* to beat you, Rock. I need it more than anything in the world" was a really obvious set up for the turn. Austin was cruising along fine as a heel. He and Triple H kicking the shit out of everyone was awesome (the beating of Lita in particular was uncomfortable to watch). Then HHH got hurt, Austin joined the Alliance and became a total bitch. The rest is history |
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Feb 17, 2015 14:25:32 GMT -5
The heel turn was meant to be the equivalent of the Hogan BatB '96 turn, but on a bigger event (WM X-7). Two issues. Number one, Hogan's heel turn was absolutely necessary for Hogan's career by that point. His watered down version of Hulkamania had gone completely thin, especially after that awful Dungeon of Doom angle. And number two, what was the logic behind it? His 'I don't owe anyone an explanation' can be translated as 'Vince and Co. don't have one'. The WWE claims they're in the business of telling a story, but there was no story behind it. It's one of the many increasing examples that plagued the WWE in the early 2000s. Shock for the sake of shock. The story was that he HAD to win. Just had to win. They did explain it prior to WrestleMania. The sit down interview with The Rock explains the heel turn. He had to win to the point where he'd do anything, even "sell his soul to the devil himself," as Jim Ross put it. |
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Post by Mid-Carder on Feb 17, 2015 14:29:12 GMT -5
He was superb in 2001 but I would be here all day if I discussed how STUPID it was turning him heel again just before Invasion. I regard it as one of the dumbest things they've ever done. The night he returned to save Team WWF was one of the loudest face responses I've ever heard. They had got away with the heel turn and he was still the most over guy in the company. Turning him heel once was a mistake. Doing it again there was catastrophic. The invasion suffered and, in my view, WWF was never the same after that. His peak was over.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Feb 17, 2015 14:30:37 GMT -5
His loss to HHH at No Way Out also kind of sold his forthcoming heel turn. Like he began to doubt himself.
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