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Post by Hobby Drifter on Feb 25, 2015 0:46:35 GMT -5
The thing that really seperates Lesnar from every other WWE (or wrestling) guy is how he's able to see past, through, and over the bull**** that everybody else seems to just take as a given.
There are guys who are willing to put up with a lot just because they are being given the chance to live their dream. And that's fine.
Then there are guys who put up with things that would be unthinkable in other lines of work for their own personal and professional reasons. Punk wanted that Wrestlemania Main Event, for example. Vince is able to get people to go along with things that do not benefit them in any measurable way by promising them a title, or a run/program, or that he'll "owe them one".
None of that crap flies when dealing with Lesnar. Not one bit. Not that he doesn't CARE about his legacy or his reputation, or anything like that. But it's not the important thing. The important thing is that he is paid the promised amount of money for the promised amount of work. That's it. It's the kind of thing that is just a given for people in any other line of work.
Lesnar doesn't care about the storylines or the booking or anything of that nature. So long as he gets the amount of money he's been promised, he'll win, lose, draw, show up, stay home, whatever. And he'll do it to the absolute best of his physical ability.
So when Vince McMahon tries to sell Lesnar on something the same way that he does for other people, it NEVER goes well for him. Brock walked the first time. He refused a deal to return when Vince tried to change it at the last minute. And if he took off last night, it's got to be for the same reason.
I don't know if Vince tried to promise Brock a win at Mania or the Longest Title Reign of the Modern era or on being the Babe Ruth of wrestling or anything like that. But it won't work. None of that stuff is more important than money in the bank for Lesnar. And God help Vince if he tried to justify the lower pay-off for Wrestlemania this year with "because of the network, you'll get more EXPOSURE. Isn't that better than just money?" Because...no.
This isn't the 80's anymore, where wrestlers were extremely limited in what they could do if they left The Business. This isn't Hulk Hogan appearing in terrible movies and worse TV shows. Nearly EVERY wrestler who leaves WWE has found success in whatever else they've tried. Jericho's band is doing great. Austin's podcast is fantastic. The Rock is the biggest action star in Hollywood. Batista shut EVERYONE up with his turn in Guardians. Foley's a best selling author. CM Punk is wrting comics and training for a UFC debut. Lesnar won the UFC Championship.
They don't HAVE to buy the snake-oil that Vince is selling anymore. You'd think that the situations with Del Rio and CM Punk would have at least forced Vince to CONSIDER that. But, nah.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Feb 25, 2015 0:59:28 GMT -5
There's a direct quote in the OP though. We are reacting to that. There's also been several people who listened to the whole thing who clarified it by saying Meltzer refused to elaborate when he was asked why Lesnar didn't show because people would run off on it out of context. So you are choosing to ignore that and go with the stuff Meltzer said would happen and then claim that Meltzer is a con man charging people for nonsense.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Feb 25, 2015 1:12:13 GMT -5
There's a direct quote in the OP though. We are reacting to that. There's also been several people who listened to the whole thing who clarified it by saying Meltzer refused to elaborate when he was asked why Lesnar didn't show because people would run off on it out of context. So you are choosing to ignore that and go with the stuff Meltzer said would happen and then claim that Meltzer is a con man charging people for nonsense. Not to mention an update (though from a different source) on page 4 and an update from Meltzer on page 5. People need to read more than one post.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,038
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Feb 25, 2015 1:20:36 GMT -5
The thing that really seperates Lesnar from every other WWE (or wrestling) guy is how he's able to see past, through, and over the bull**** that everybody else seems to just take as a given. There are guys who are willing to put up with a lot just because they are being given the chance to live their dream. And that's fine. Then there are guys who put up with things that would be unthinkable in other lines of work for their own personal and professional reasons. Punk wanted that Wrestlemania Main Event, for example. Vince is able to get people to go along with things that do not benefit them in any measurable way by promising them a title, or a run/program, or that he'll "owe them one". None of that crap flies when dealing with Lesnar. Not one bit. Not that he doesn't CARE about his legacy or his reputation, or anything like that. But it's not the important thing. The important thing is that he is paid the promised amount of money for the promised amount of work. That's it. It's the kind of thing that is just a given for people in any other line of work. Lesnar doesn't care about the storylines or the booking or anything of that nature. So long as he gets the amount of money he's been promised, he'll win, lose, draw, show up, stay home, whatever. And he'll do it to the absolute best of his physical ability. So when Vince McMahon tries to sell Lesnar on something the same way that he does for other people, it NEVER goes well for him. Brock walked the first time. He refused a deal to return when Vince tried to change it at the last minute. And if he took off last night, it's got to be for the same reason. I don't know if Vince tried to promise Brock a win at Mania or the Longest Title Reign of the Modern era or on being the Babe Ruth of wrestling or anything like that. But it won't work. None of that stuff is more important than money in the bank for Lesnar. And God help Vince if he tried to justify the lower pay-off for Wrestlemania this year with "because of the network, you'll get more EXPOSURE. Isn't that better than just money?" Because...no. This isn't the 80's anymore, where wrestlers were extremely limited in what they could do if they left The Business. This isn't Hulk Hogan appearing in terrible movies and worse TV shows. Nearly EVERY wrestler who leaves WWE has found success in whatever else they've tried. Jericho's band is doing great. Austin's podcast is fantastic. The Rock is the biggest action star in Hollywood. Batista shut EVERYONE up with his turn in Guardians. Foley's a best selling author. CM Punk is wrting comics and training for a UFC debut. Lesnar won the UFC Championship. They don't HAVE to buy the snake-oil that Vince is selling anymore. You'd think that the situations with Del Rio and CM Punk would have at least forced Vince to CONSIDER that. But, nah. It's funny how you mention Vince promising all these kayfabe things to guys as some sort of payment. It makes me wonder if the biggest mark in the company is the guy in charge of it.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Feb 25, 2015 1:57:38 GMT -5
I'm only just seeing this story and I didn't watch Raw so didn't notice he wasn't there.
I can say confidently, without being an "insider" that it's absolutely nothing to do with booking. Despite the reputation he appears to have, Brock will job to anybody. He will also have known about the Reigns plan months ago, like the rest of us.
Pay/contract issue, perhaps?
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Post by froggyfrog on Feb 25, 2015 2:09:20 GMT -5
There's also been several people who listened to the whole thing who clarified it by saying Meltzer refused to elaborate when he was asked why Lesnar didn't show because people would run off on it out of context. So you are choosing to ignore that and go with the stuff Meltzer said would happen and then claim that Meltzer is a con man charging people for nonsense. Not to mention an update (though from a different source) on page 4 and an update from Meltzer on page 5. People need to read more than one post. i dont want to read 7 pages of nonsense to find one relevant post though. OP should be updated as the situation is updated
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Post by Mayonnaise on Feb 25, 2015 2:10:33 GMT -5
Not to mention an update (though from a different source) on page 4 and an update from Meltzer on page 5. People need to read more than one post. i dont want to read 7 pages of nonsense to find one relevant post though. OP should be updated as the situation is updated 4 pages isn't that much. We're a discussion board, reading things and posting things is kind of the whole point.
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Post by froggyfrog on Feb 25, 2015 2:11:32 GMT -5
i dont want to read 7 pages of nonsense to find one relevant post though. OP should be updated as the situation is updated 4 pages isn't that much. We're a discussion board, reading things and posting things is kind of the whole point. then whats the harm in making it convenient to find all relevant info in one post?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 3:04:50 GMT -5
Guys, honestly, if you're not going to listen to the audio being referenced, stop trying to draw conclusions about Meltzer, his reporting, or how/why he said it. I haven't listened to it, either, but it's pretty poor form to cast aspersions if you don't have the context he said this stuff in. Chill out. Well YOU'RE an aspersion.
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Post by What? on Feb 25, 2015 3:09:04 GMT -5
So am I Brock not being on Smackdown is unprecedented. I thought he sold his house and moved to like Siberia or the North Pole or something 6 months ago?
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Feb 25, 2015 3:38:35 GMT -5
DodgersFan5Ever sez Bork lorft borcorse Ramon orte all thor Jorrmy Jorhns.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Feb 25, 2015 4:17:52 GMT -5
4 pages isn't that much. We're a discussion board, reading things and posting things is kind of the whole point. then whats the harm in making it convenient to find all relevant info in one post? I guess I don't see the point in being part of a discussion if you're just there to skim a few lines that stick out then pipe in with a very uninformed opinion of the discussion at hand but I will humor you. I think a lot of the heat put on Meltzer in this thread (me included) should really go to WrestleZone, as their headline makes it seem like there is an explanation or story. If you go to Meltzer's site the news story link just says, "Lesnar advertised but doesn't appear." This was just very briefly talked about on his show and Dave never said he was breaking any kind of news. This is just some copy paste sites attempt to make some newzy newz off of a minor side discussion on W.O.R Same crap, different day. I would legit hate to have Meltzer or Wade Keller's job sometimes (as awesome as it would be) as every damn thing you say REGARDLESS OF CONTEXT (pardon the Alvarezian outburst) becomes the title of some click bait BS article on some lazy ass copy/paste newz site, and then instead of criticizing said newz site people instead knock you for being a lazy reporter. My head would explode. Exactly. There's no shame in saying, "Brock Lesnar was originally announced for Raw this week. We do not yet know why Brock Lesnar was not on Raw. We expect more information on this situation." That's pretty much what Meltzer said. I really like listening to Meltzer talk about wrestling and think he is one of the very few legitimate wrestling journalists (despite his English being so bad I'm convinced it isn't his first language) but come on man the summation of this is basically "The news is that there is news but we have no idea what this news is. Stay tuned for more news, or at least news about news." In Meltzer's defense, in the actual show he made a point of noting that he felt there was a story there, but that he didn't want to speculate on it because then people would start taking it as gospel and posting it as news. Which...appears to be exactly what has happened. On the Raw review, Alvarez asks him what's going on with Lesnar, Dave says he honestly does not know, but he knows that he was there and was advertised to be there (on tv) as late as 20 minutes before showtime. He says "there's a story" but he that's as much as he knows about it. He begins to talk about what he thinks might have happened, but then he catches himself because he knows how these shitty copy & paste sites take his words out of context. Yet despite all these quotes everyone just assumed that the out of context quote was Meltzer being NEWZY, even after they were clarified. Then Hmark tried to call the dogs off Meltzer with a bit of sensibility, and some people chose to double down instead of re-reading and reassessing. Seems to be about the way any thread with a Meltzer "quote" goes.
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adamclark52
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Post by adamclark52 on Feb 25, 2015 4:27:31 GMT -5
It does make me kind of sad if something did happen that would prevent him from being at Wrestlemania or burned another bridge between him and the WWE. Since Summerslam, and especially when I watched his vingettes on Fastlane, I think Brock Lesnar may just be my favorite wrestler ever.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Feb 25, 2015 4:55:08 GMT -5
It seems that the only way to get leverage on Vince is to have something to fall back on if everything else fails with WWE. Rock with Movies, Brock with UFC, Cena with his gym and other projects etc.
It must be liberating to be able to tell Vince to go f*** himself when he wants you to do something you don't feel like doing.
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 25, 2015 6:54:33 GMT -5
Guys, honestly, if you're not going to listen to the audio being referenced, stop trying to draw conclusions about Meltzer, his reporting, or how/why he said it. I haven't listened to it, either, but it's pretty poor form to cast aspersions if you don't have the context he said this stuff in. Chill out. Well YOU'RE an aspersion. You're a towel.
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Post by Ryushinku on Feb 25, 2015 7:12:52 GMT -5
My guess is that the offered contract isn't as good as Brock hoped.
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Juice
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Post by Juice on Feb 25, 2015 8:01:45 GMT -5
There's a direct quote in the OP though. We are reacting to that. There's also been several people who listened to the whole thing who clarified it by saying Meltzer refused to elaborate when he was asked why Lesnar didn't show because people would run off on it out of context. So you are choosing to ignore that and go with the stuff Meltzer said would happen and then claim that Meltzer is a con man charging people for nonsense. Then if we are going to split hairs like this the OP should be deleted for not including the whole story and just a smark bait quote.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Feb 25, 2015 8:11:25 GMT -5
I know Lesnar doesn't care about the creative direction of building new stars in WWE. He doesn't care one bit. So, he's not walking out because he is a secret Bryan fan or he doesn't think Reigns is over, or whatever nonsense people are saying. You know what I want this to be? I want this to be Lesnar and his people not knowing what his PPV bonus will be for mania because of the Network. I want to know that someone with enough power has made Vince and the WWE aware that it is a huge problem when your talent isn't compensated properly. The Network is a much bigger deal than last year, it only makes sense that the PPV buys go down as more people subscribe. So Lesnar wants to know why he's getting less for this fight than he got last year, when his match is actually more important than the Undertaker match from last year. So I want Lesnar to get Vince in a courtroom or sign something binding that applies to all superstars. Pie in the sky dream I suppose I had always been under the impression that Brock was under a flat WCW-style deal in the first place.
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Feb 25, 2015 8:18:26 GMT -5
Wouldn't it be hilarious if Brock vetoed jobbing to Reigns and asked for a match against Bryan? How would the WWE react to that?
Or, what if they asked him to beat Reigns and then job to Rollins doing a cash-in and he vetoed that?
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Post by SCCB Was Told To Do Steroids on Feb 25, 2015 8:20:20 GMT -5
This is all conjecture, and we're doing exactly what Meltzer wants: us talking about newz.
That being said, we all know Lesnar has a damn-near Legend contract. I don't think he doesn't care. I think he does. I think he DOES think this booking is kinda stupid. I'd like to think he'd like to wrestle --even drop the strap to-- D Bry. This is not me smarkishly hating Cena Jr., either. I imagine, deep in his heart of hearts, Lesnar actually likes and respects wrestling, just like the other guys, and realizes, like Punk, he has enough cache to call Vince on his BS.
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