saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Feb 25, 2015 13:18:18 GMT -5
Sorry if this in the wrong place -- if mods need to move it to Rest of Wrestling, please do so, but with Sting now in WWE and it being in the right time frame I thought this was the proper place.
Anyway, you know what I'm talking about -- Starcade 97, the year-in-the-making showdown between Sting and Hogan.
The (terribly booked) finish was supposed to be a fast count, Sting kicks out but due to referee shenanigans it's too late (but would have been in time had the count not been fast). Then Bret Hart comes in to save the day, restarts the match (he has that authority?) and Sting gets the W.
Except it didn't go down that way, as we all know. For reasons still not clear, we get a normal count and not a fast one.
And Sting doesn't kick out until it's too late ... on a normal-speed count.
Does anyone have any idea why? He should have been poised to kick much more quickly with the plan being that the count would be fast, so he should have been up much earlier -- at a 1 1/2 or 2 count at worst. Yet he waits. This has always bugged me and I'd like to hear what people think about it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 13:44:39 GMT -5
Because Orange Hobgoblin.
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Post by TheSchattenjager on Feb 25, 2015 15:19:48 GMT -5
Perhaps he was just confused by the situation and froze? And when he got a hold of the situation, it was already too late. It could happen. But yeah, you'd think that Sting had panicked and just kicked out immediately after noticing that the biggest finish of his career was not going down the way it had been planned.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Feb 25, 2015 15:22:45 GMT -5
I guess the third hit of the three count was probably his cue so he was listening more to the number of the count that the speed.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 15:38:30 GMT -5
One underrated aspect of the Montreal Screwjob was how it took practically all the wind out of WCW, as it made Bischoff shoehorn Bret into the Starrcade main event and thus creating that completely unnecessary and convoluted "I'm not going to let this happen again" ending when the match should have ended clean as a sheet. I was on the AOL newsgroups at the time, and the fans hated that ending, so it's one of the few angles that happened in WCW that isn't completely fabricated by revisionism in hindsight.
As far as who to blame, it's some combination of Patrick and Sting. Sting didn't flinch until the 3 count, so it's possible he waited for it before kicking out, but just to cover his tracks he should have kicked out at 1 or 2. I guess it's easy to say in hindsight when you're not the one in that position. Patrick should get the bulk of the blame, though.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Feb 25, 2015 16:13:28 GMT -5
I suspect that Bischoff and Hogan agreed on some incredibly screwy ending on the day of the show that left Hogan looking better than those who defeated him because that was his MO at that point, and WCW being WCW, they didn't think to tell Sting or Patrick the entire plan because why would they need to know? Only two people know the whole truth and they're two of the most selfserving people in wrestling so there's little chance of ever finding out what the planned finish was.
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WWHHHD
Unicron
Break it down for a 5 second pose!
Posts: 3,467
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Post by WWHHHD on Feb 25, 2015 18:55:06 GMT -5
Hogan has always been on record and this is confirmed that he wanted to go out there and have Sting squash him.
What bothers me in this whole fast count slow count mess. Why is Bret Hart at the timekeepers table exactly as the 3 count is made?
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Feb 25, 2015 19:16:34 GMT -5
Hogan has always been on record and this is confirmed that he wanted to go out there and have Sting squash him. What bothers me in this whole fast count slow count mess. Why is Bret Hart at the timekeepers table exactly as the 3 count is made? I had to laugh before responding. If Hogan wanted Sting to squash him, Sting would have squashed him. Sting actually got dominated for a good majority of the match. I don't care what he says, Hogan's word means less than nothing. |
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TGM
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,073
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Post by TGM on Feb 25, 2015 19:20:34 GMT -5
Hogan has always been on record and this is confirmed that he wanted to go out there and have Sting squash him. What bothers me in this whole fast count slow count mess. Why is Bret Hart at the timekeepers table exactly as the 3 count is made? Hogan has also gone on record saying... well, you all know the rest. |
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Dang!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,276
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Post by Dang! on Feb 25, 2015 22:46:35 GMT -5
Hogan's word means less than nothing. This. Hogan is probably the most notorious and pathetic liar in the business. Maybe he's even delusional and actually believes his lies. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Feb 25, 2015 23:06:25 GMT -5
Hogan's word means less than nothing. This. Hogan is probably the most notorious and pathetic liar in the business. Maybe he's even delusional and actually believes his lies. At this point I don't doubt it. Hogan is pretty much the only person who believes Hogan. |
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Feb 26, 2015 0:31:21 GMT -5
If they really wanted to reference Montreal, why not actually have Hogan put Sting in the Scorpion Death Lock and do a phantom submission, instead of a fast count?
The dynamic would have actually worked, because it's the same hold, and it's the same situation where the guy that usually does the move is being screwed with their own move.
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Post by sdoyle7798 on Feb 26, 2015 1:59:27 GMT -5
If they really wanted to reference Montreal, why not actually have Hogan put Sting in the Scorpion Death Lock and do a phantom submission, instead of a fast count? The dynamic would have actually worked, because it's the same hold, and it's the same situation where the guy that usually does the move is being screwed with their own move. To do the exact same thing would have been beyond absurd. You may as well just say "We wish we were WWF" |
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Feb 26, 2015 2:10:01 GMT -5
If they really wanted to reference Montreal, why not actually have Hogan put Sting in the Scorpion Death Lock and do a phantom submission, instead of a fast count? The dynamic would have actually worked, because it's the same hold, and it's the same situation where the guy that usually does the move is being screwed with their own move. To do the exact same thing would have been beyond absurd. You may as well just say "We wish we were WWF" Well, what we got was pretty damn absurd, so at worst, it's a lateral movement. |
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Post by Racksman on Feb 26, 2015 2:26:05 GMT -5
Hogan has always been on record and this is confirmed that he wanted to go out there and have Sting squash him. What bothers me in this whole fast count slow count mess. Why is Bret Hart at the timekeepers table exactly as the 3 count is made? And a couple of years ago, Hogan also claimed to be able to live 400 days a year. Like, he really said and believed that. I think Hogan's had Alzheimer's since '84. |
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Chuck Conry
Dennis Stamp
zombies DON'T Run
Posts: 3,726
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Post by Chuck Conry on Feb 26, 2015 2:45:26 GMT -5
He tried, but his body betrayed him.
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Post by Ryushinku on Feb 26, 2015 6:16:26 GMT -5
I like to think it was sheer bafflement at the clusterscrewery involved.
And I would pay to see Hogan slap on the Deathlock. I think his knees would shoot into the eighteenth row.
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