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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 21:48:30 GMT -5
I wonder how the company will react when this "Reigns Experiment" fails and it not only screws up Reigns and his plans, it'll also have f***ed up Taker, Lesnar AND Bryan. Out of all the things I've seen in wrestling since the 90s, predictions, things you see, the "Reigns will fail" experiment has to be the #1 thing that's I can predict. I just don't know why they won't do what's best for everyone. Oh I do. This is the WW-f***ing-E. If Reigns fails, they'll just throw that saddle right back on Cena. I like Roman, but I think this is inevitable. It'll sadly happen. And as for the fans, once this Reigns Experiment fails, they'll latch onto a new guy. They might go to Bryan again, they might go to Ziggler, Ambrose, who knows but they'll look for a new savior. We'll be back to step one. It happened to Punk, happened to Bryan, it'll happen to anyone who's over who isn't some big huge guy the office loves. So stupid.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 21:59:24 GMT -5
Dude, the moment WWE has to default to Cena again... I expect some of y'all to start bleeding from the eyes out of pure antipathy.
...WWE would be wretched to watch, but y'all posting about it will at least be pretty funny.
Meatbags in pain amuse me. It almost gives off a LOLTNA vibe. Not strongly mind you, but...
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Post by sodapopwalters on Feb 25, 2015 22:04:23 GMT -5
It's was a very interesting read. It still baffles me that they continue the horrible portrayal of the Reigns and Bryan storyline, it's hurting both guys at the moment.
If only the class A shareholders would challenge Vince and the company with a Proxy contest, that may get him to change his ways, but that's if there is a huge backlash after WM and a ton of people cancel their network subscriptions.
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 25, 2015 22:05:56 GMT -5
Dude, the moment WWE has to default to Cena again... I expect some of y'all to start bleeding from the eyes out of pure antipathy. ...WWE would be wretched to watch, but y'all posting about it will at least be pretty funny. Meatbags in pain amuse me.It almost gives off a LOLTNA vibe. Not strongly mind you, but... It's different from "LOLTNA", I think. TNA, like so many other companies, has done countless stupid things in pursuit of mainstream coverage and fan interest, and any number of immoral things in pursuit of profits. But TNA has been the smaller company all along, a company with more to lose (as seen in the past year) but doing all these stupid things in the hopes of gaining a foothold in the industry. WWE, meanwhile, is the only big company in town, and the decision making here isn't just "ha, look at the small time company making a fool of itself trying to appeal to people", it's "dear God, look at that behemoth eating itself to death through gluttony and hubris". There's seems to be so much more contempt for the audience behind this than a typical stupid TNA (or, in 1998-2000, WCW) move.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
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Post by Reflecto on Feb 25, 2015 22:12:41 GMT -5
If Reigns fails, they'll just throw that saddle right back on Cena. I like Roman, but I think this is inevitable. It'll sadly happen. And as for the fans, once this Reigns Experiment fails, they'll latch onto a new guy. They might go to Bryan again, they might go to Ziggler, Ambrose, who knows but they'll look for a new savior. We'll be back to step one. It happened to Punk, happened to Bryan, it'll happen to anyone who's over who isn't some big huge guy the office loves. So stupid. That also ties into the other, genuine conspiracy theory not seen from this. We've seen all year now that there is a huge wedge between what Vince McMahon/Kevin Dunn want, for the WWE roster, and what Triple H and the NXT roster want. Tie into the people who seemed like the next ones- Sheamus seemed anointed, but it didn't take- and he eventually got booked into nothingness as it didn't take. It looks like Reigns will also fail. Now, remember- the reason Sheamus seemed anointed was "he was Triple H's workout partner and a Triple H pet project", and Reigns is a NXT alum (and thus a "Triple H Guy" as much as a "Vince McMahon Guy.") Put it in- do we know that it's not the POINT for the Reigns Experiment to fail, so that all of "Triple H's Guys" fail as top guys and can't overtake Cena (presumably so that WWE has to run with the last, pure "Vince Guy" they have?)
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Post by Widow's Peak on Feb 25, 2015 22:15:19 GMT -5
I may be in the minority who isn't upset at Reigns in the main event. I agree that he isn't ready, maybe they should have used Bryan instead and waited a year on the mega-push, but I still am optimistic that this could be a fun match.
The thing that I'm more upset about is that the people like Bryan, Ambrose and Ziggler are floating around with nothing to do because the WWE has forgotten how to book the midcard. Particularly in Ambrose's case where he was this close becoming a mega-star, and they instead turned him into a comedy character and fed him to Bray Wyatt (who will subsequently job to the Undertaker).
None of these people have to necessarily become the face of the company, but the fans need to be given some kind of payoff to the investment they are making in these guys. Otherwise, people just lose interest.
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 25, 2015 22:21:32 GMT -5
I may be in the minority who isn't upset at Reigns in the main event. I agree that he isn't ready, maybe they should have used Bryan instead and waited a year on the mega-push, but I still am optimistic that this could be a fun match. The thing that I'm more upset about is that the people like Bryan, Ambrose and Ziggler are floating around with nothing to do because the WWE has forgotten how to book the midcard. Particularly in Ambrose's case where he was this close becoming a mega-star, and they instead turned him into a comedy character and fed him to Bray Wyatt (who will subsequently job to the Undertaker). None of these people have to necessarily become the face of the company, but the fans need to be given some kind of payoff to the investment they are making in these guys. Otherwise, people just lose interest. Yeah, it's a double whammy here: not only have they reserved beating Lesnar for Reigns, the ultimate "anointing the new top guy" victory of the modern era, but they've also begun the final month before Wrestlemania...and guys like Ziggler, Ryback, and even Daniel-freaking-Bryan don't have matches for it yet, let alone feuds, let alone even angles for it. Say HBK was still around on some level, and they decided to have him and Bryan have a match, play off Bryan having been a student at Michaels' wrestling school back in the day; that'd at least be a sign that Daniel Bryan still matters, because that'd be a main event level match that Bryan would likely go over in. But they have one month to do something, and there's jack squat in the offing. The SD spoilers hint at something, but nothing of particular note.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Feb 25, 2015 22:21:57 GMT -5
I don't even feel bad as a fan or anything. I feel bad for Daniel Bryan. And yeah "he gets to bang Brie Bella and travel the world and do what he loves" and all that. But this is career, his life's work, he earned something and was told no because of, basically, his appearance, because one guy doesn't like how he looks and assumes everyone else won't. I've experienced that on a much smaller level, and my morale just plummeted, even though I kept a stiff upper lip and laughed it off. It's gotta bother him. I just hope it doesn't leave such a sour taste in his mouth that he doesn't enjoy performing anymore. By all accounts, Bryan is one of the most selfless guy on the roster. Sure here cares about his match quality, but he cares more about just being out there wrestling, regardless of his place on the card. He never wanted to be "the guy". As for the Reigns thing, honestly I'll be shocked if his reign isn't pure trash. I'm not a hater, I'm not a "I'M NOT WATCHING FOREVER!" guy, but putting him in there with Kane and Big Show ft. Seth Rollins as his opponents..well I'll sell you my house if you can tell me why that's gonna be entertaining the slightest. That does make me wonder what the plan past Wrestlemania could be for Roman if he indeed survives the week as champion. You have Rollins with the briefcase, but who else is on the heel side besides the Local Men, who we know make for bad matches with Roman already?
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Post by Red Impact on Feb 25, 2015 22:28:10 GMT -5
The statement about the cancel the network movement really highlights the problems with internet boycotts in general. They'll never send a message until people participating in them are really truly willign to talk with their dollars, either spending it on things they like and want to see or depriving themselves of something to send the company a message. Words alone are meaningless.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Feb 25, 2015 22:43:03 GMT -5
That does make me wonder what the plan past Wrestlemania could be for Roman if he indeed survives the week as champion. You have Rollins with the briefcase, but who else is on the heel side besides the Local Men, who we know make for bad matches with Roman already? As I said in the SD thread, this has been the most half-assed build to Mania in recent memory, perhaps ever. Literally the only planning for it has been Reigns vs. Lesnar, and that has been in the works for at least a full year now. Even HHH vs. Sting has been less by design and more "holy shit, we have Sting now, we'd better find something for him to do." Everybody else on the roster has been a complete afterthought. Wyatt? "I guess we can duct tape and superglue Taker together for one night. That'll take care of it." Ziggler? Bryan? {Spoiler}"Throw them into the IC picture with Ambrose and Barrett. 'Why?' Who cares, just do it." Rusev? "Hey, Cena's gotta do something." Everybody else? "That's what we have the Battle Royal for now." The Divas? "Get out of my office." I have zero faith that WWE have the first freakin' idea what they'll be doing after Mania. It feels like they're just making it up a few days in advance, if that.
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Post by Just call me D.j.m. on Feb 25, 2015 22:46:09 GMT -5
He's right. It's over.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Feb 25, 2015 23:03:29 GMT -5
Yeah, acceptance is where I'm at too. It's a shame that he'll almost certainly never be the absolute tippy-top number one face of the company guy, but he's still having and will continue to have a very successful run in WWE. Sure, you may not be Hulk Hogan. But there's nothing the f*** wrong with being Mr. Perfect. There used to be nothing wrong with being Mr. Perfect, but he existed in a time when the Intercontinental-level guys were still treated as mega stars who could have competitive matches against the top dog. Hennig could wrestle Hogan in 1991 and the announcers would put him over as someone on the same level as the Hulkster. In 2015, Mr. Perfect would be some forgettable midcard guy with no mic time getting yo-yo pushes. {Spoiler}
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 23:07:15 GMT -5
I may be in the minority who isn't upset at Reigns in the main event. I agree that he isn't ready, maybe they should have used Bryan instead and waited a year on the mega-push, but I still am optimistic that this could be a fun match. The thing that I'm more upset about is that the people like Bryan, Ambrose and Ziggler are floating around with nothing to do because the WWE has forgotten how to book the midcard. Particularly in Ambrose's case where he was this close becoming a mega-star, and they instead turned him into a comedy character and fed him to Bray Wyatt (who will subsequently job to the Undertaker). None of these people have to necessarily become the face of the company, but the fans need to be given some kind of payoff to the investment they are making in these guys. Otherwise, people just lose interest. This is one of the more logical posts that I've seen. Bully for you!
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 25, 2015 23:07:54 GMT -5
Yeah, acceptance is where I'm at too. It's a shame that he'll almost certainly never be the absolute tippy-top number one face of the company guy, but he's still having and will continue to have a very successful run in WWE. Sure, you may not be Hulk Hogan. But there's nothing the f*** wrong with being Mr. Perfect. There used to be nothing wrong with being Mr. Perfect, but he existed in a time when the Intercontinental-level guys were still treated as mega stars who could have competitive matches against the top dog. Hennig could wrestle Hogan in 1991 and the announcers would put him over as someone on the same level as the Hulkster. In 2015, Mr. Perfect would be some forgettable midcard guy with no mic time getting yo-yo pushes. {Spoiler}{Spoiler} Plus, like Magic said before, in the 2015 part of this equation, Mr. Perfect is actually more over than Hulk Hogan, yet still not being pushed as hard as him. Say what one will about Hogan's politicking or whatever from 1990 onward, the dude was still the most over act on the planet then. Today, it just isn't the case with the guys now kind of filling those roles (for the sake of this comparison).
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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Feb 25, 2015 23:19:30 GMT -5
Well, after reading that, I want to crawl into a hole in the ground and sob gently.
I haven't actually spent any money on WWE since WrestleMania XXX. So long as this ignorant direction coupled with nothing storylines continues, I'll never spend another dime on them again. It's even getting hard to come here and be snarky about the product. I just... don't care anymore. Vince McMahon's legacy really is going to end on a whimper, isn't it?
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Post by Andy Martin on Feb 25, 2015 23:20:41 GMT -5
It's weird. I agree with you, but I also find myself thinking that there's a large part of the wrestling fan base that are f***ing morons.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 23:23:08 GMT -5
Somewhat lost in this is that Bryan's body fell apart during his big run last year. Rightly or wrongly I can see the office being more reluctant to pull the trigger with him again(at least until he proves that he can stay healthy). D-Bry is over but he also has A LOT of miles on his body. This isn't saying that they shouldn't give him a chance but I'm sure that it factors into the big picture of it all where the office is concerned and it's not just "f*** that guy, Roman is big and has muscles." When they likely made the decision that Roman was going to be the guy was in the end days of the Shield when he was really over and having arenas chant his name from time to time, the push could have(and could still) work(ed) but the booking has to be really good and it hasn't been to this point. Just something to consider.
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Post by Neo: "The One" who CLAPS on Feb 25, 2015 23:24:13 GMT -5
Fantastic read. This shows how truly past it Vince really is. It sucks that Bryan, who is good at promos, great at in-ring work, and excellent at connecting with fans is passed over to be the guy because of the personal tastes of a 60 year-old man. Meltzer makes a great point that you can't truly predict what makes a wrestler over; wrestlers just get over. And yet Vince, in the last decade especially, has tried and tried again to create fan reactions and failing spectacularly time and time again.
I've been a fan of wrestling since 2004, and in all my time, I've never seen a wrestler as over as Bryan. Some have come close (Cena, Batista in 2005, Punk in 2011) but Bryan just has that something that connects with fans, something that Vince has shown he doesn't care about. Every wrestling promoter in history would have seen the moment where Bryan turned on the Wyatts last year, with the entire arena chanting "YES" along with Bryan, and made sure that they at least attempted to give him a run as The Guy. Yet, just two weeks later, Vince made that moment not a moment, but just a cool wrestling memory by having Batista winning the Royal Rumble. Then, a year later, when Bryan announced that he was returning and competing in the Rumble, Vince again made that almost meaningless, by having a relatively cold Roman Reigns win the Rumble.
Vince is so incredibly past it that, the thing is, Reigns coronation could have been successful. Had they kept him as the silent, brooding badass that he was, who was over with the fans because he absolutely destroyed people, then I think the fans would have continued supporting him, and accepted his coronation. Yet, here Vince is, trying to turn Reigns into Cena 2.0 by having him spew phrases like "Suffering Succotash" and tell stories about Jack and the Bean Stalk. Reigns should be different than Cena. Cena was different than The Rock. The Rock was different from Austin. Austin was different from Bret Hart. And Hart was different than Hogan, and so on. Yet here's Vince, forgetting basic wrestling principles, such as listening to fans, just so his company can fit his vision that truthfully, is past the times.
I want Reigns to succeed. I really, really, do. It's not fun watching the WWE fail, just as I'm sure it wasn't fun to see WCW fail. (Although it was probably fun from a catharsis standpoint.) But Reigns, like Meltzer said, is being met with indifference. At the rate things are going, he's going to meet indifference in the main event of Mania. And Reigns cannot fail, otherwise, the career of Reigns, a potentially huge star, will be damaged, and Bryan, Taker, and Lesnar will all find themselves screwed over.
This is a very interesting time for the WWE. They're going to throne a new star at Mania; one of their former biggest stars left them for the UFC, and is now battling them in court; and their women are now on social media calling out the head honchos of the company on their anti-women B.S. But based off of how they are telling the fans what they should want, and how they are treating their stars, and how bad the product has consistently been for years, I have to say that I feel like Vince is killing the company that he created.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Feb 25, 2015 23:24:38 GMT -5
...I...eh...guys, really?
Ok, a wrestler that won a world title last year is probably going to compete for a second ranked title this year. And people are on the verge of tears? Please, please don't take this as an attack, but I'm genuinely shocked if that's serious.
It's not like Daniel Bryan is a Walking Dead character and he just got killed by a walker. He just can't win the shiny thing he wants this time.
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Post by abjordans on Feb 25, 2015 23:32:16 GMT -5
Meter made a really good point on today's Talk is Jericho. He was saying he has a feeling the relentlessness of the Reigns push is really a sign of respect to Undertaker. Basically, the guy who beats the guy who beat Taker has to be made into the future top guy for the forseeable time. Anything less than this 12 month journey of no one being able to touch Lesnar until Reigns steps up and climbs to the top of the WWE is a slap to Taker and a shit on the streak.
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