WWE Eyeing the Indies?

[Deleted]

Mar 10, 2015 18:29:00 GMT -5 saintpat said:

Mar 10, 2015 14:11:42 GMT -5 @graant said:

why the f*** would they want to compete with the indies?


well I know why, short term gains, but it's ultimately going to f*** them over in the long run

Haven't people been posting for years how WWE would be better if it had competition?

Why doesn't that work the other way around? Shouldn't competition also make the indy promotions better?

I'm confuzzled.

Because it has the potential to easily become a monopoly.


I mean even the biggest indies don't make a shit ton of money, how are they going to be able to fairly compete with the WWE?


I guess the only way it would be possible is if the indies all work together, and even then all their resources combined wouldn't be much match for WWE.

[Andrew is Good]

I don't think it's the worst thing. They're going to stack the roster with the best talent, but the indies have always thrived on cycling talent in and out. ROH's success and have had so many legendary figures over such a small period because guys get over huge and leave, so their legend lives on before they become Roderick Strong. Guys have to leave eventually, and I feel Roderick Strong would benefit so much by being on NXT and potentially getting a name change and an overhaul, it could work. And guys in WWE who are talented but not might have been given a strong opportunity, like PJ Black, they go to the indies and they're the top guys. People like him, Drew Galloway, Matt Sydal and others are just tearing things up.

[Heinz Doofenschmirtz]

As long as they keep running it like UWF* 2K15, I'm all in.

*Bill Watts version.

[saintpat]

Mar 10, 2015 18:49:26 GMT -5 @graant said:

Mar 10, 2015 18:29:00 GMT -5 saintpat said:

Haven't people been posting for years how WWE would be better if it had competition?

Why doesn't that work the other way around? Shouldn't competition also make the indy promotions better?

I'm confuzzled.

Because it has the potential to easily become a monopoly.


I mean even the biggest indies don't make a shit ton of money, how are they going to be able to fairly compete with the WWE?


I guess the only way it would be possible is if the indies all work together, and even then all their resources combined wouldn't be much match for WWE.

They don't have to "fairly compete with the WWE" -- they'd have to compete with NXT ... and not even on a day to day, week to week basis. No way NXT is going to run shows in every indy market head to head against every indy show.

I guess WCW had the "potential to become a monopoly" had it put WWE out of business. I guess McDonald's does if it puts Burger King out of business or AT&T if it puts Verizon and T-Mobile out of business, etc.

But if the long-held "competition makes everyone better" axiom is true, then the indies would gain from NXT competing with them -- they'd have to work harder, work smarter, develop talent and storylines better, etc.

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

Mar 10, 2015 18:54:27 GMT -5 Andrew is Good said:

I don't think it's the worst thing. They're going to stack the roster with the best talent, but the indies have always thrived on cycling talent in and out. ROH's success and have had so many legendary figures over such a small period because guys get over huge and leave, so their legend lives on before they become Roderick Strong. Guys have to leave eventually, and I feel Roderick Strong would benefit so much by being on NXT and potentially getting a name change and an overhaul, it could work. And guys in WWE who are talented but not might have been given a strong opportunity, like PJ Black, they go to the indies and they're the top guys. People like him, Drew Galloway, Matt Sydal and others are just tearing things up.

The "before they become Roderick Strong" thing hurts my heart. Ouch.

I'm a bit unsure if all WWE guys can just go to the indies and be the top guys. The likes of PJ Black, Drew Galloway, Matt Sydal, and even Brian Myers all had some kind of an established name or identity before coming to WWE though; They're basically picking up where they left off. My concern is if someone like a Mojo Rawley or a Baron Corbin who has been built up from scratch in the WWE System could have that same success?

[gr1990]

Couldn't the indy promotions just make sure they time their shows to run when NXT isn't in the area, much as they presumably already do with main roster WWE shows? Unless WWE quadruples in size, they can only be in so many places at once.

[Brood Lone Wolf Funker]

Mar 10, 2015 13:36:26 GMT -5 Apricots And A Pear Tree said:

Hey WWE, Stay out of Reseda!

[Deleted]

Doubt they want to kill the indies. NXT is great because of its stacked roster mostly made up of Indy Journeymen

[Juice]

NXt touring would not affect any Indy bookings, this is laughable.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

Can't wait for major indies losing the ability to run arenas in the arenas they draw in because the WWE have struck exclusivity deals with them, or finding NXT shows scheduled in the same city on the same night as major events to undermine them or NXT specials running up against their iPPVs.

[Reflecto]

Mar 10, 2015 19:03:00 GMT -5 CATCH_US IS the Conversation said:

Mar 10, 2015 18:54:27 GMT -5 Andrew is Good said:

I don't think it's the worst thing. They're going to stack the roster with the best talent, but the indies have always thrived on cycling talent in and out. ROH's success and have had so many legendary figures over such a small period because guys get over huge and leave, so their legend lives on before they become Roderick Strong. Guys have to leave eventually, and I feel Roderick Strong would benefit so much by being on NXT and potentially getting a name change and an overhaul, it could work. And guys in WWE who are talented but not might have been given a strong opportunity, like PJ Black, they go to the indies and they're the top guys. People like him, Drew Galloway, Matt Sydal and others are just tearing things up.

The "before they become Roderick Strong" thing hurts my heart. Ouch.

I'm a bit unsure if all WWE guys can just go to the indies and be the top guys. The likes of PJ Black, Drew Galloway, Matt Sydal, and even Brian Myers all had some kind of an established name or identity before coming to WWE though; They're basically picking up where they left off. My concern is if someone like a Mojo Rawley or a Baron Corbin who has been built up from scratch in the WWE System could have that same success?

Even that's a kind of unreasonable comparison, since there is a global aspect to some. Of the list you had, only Matt Sydal had been a genuine huge indy standout in the United States before he signed. Brian Myers was an up and coming guy on the Northeast scene who hadn't really broken out to even get to the big Northeast indies. Drew Galloway was a big star in Europe at the time, but was a complete unknown in America- and PJ Black was a huge star in Africa and starting to make a name for himself in Europe, but had yet to make a dent in America. In both Galloway and Black's cases, they may have had some name value on the indies beforehand, but they were able to really make names for themselves on the US indy scene following their WWE runs.

Same for people like Mojo Rawley or Baron Corbin- could they? Possibly, just due to the street cred NXT had. When WWE developmental last had street cred with fans, in the time Paul Heyman booked OVW, Brent Albright flamed out when he made the Smackdown roster, but fell into ROH and became a relatively good indy name for a few years off that OVW run. Later, guys like Mike Mondo and Domino went from that OVW time period to ROH runs (albeit Domino maybe getting more of a buzz due to his appearances on Art of Wrestling rather than his work, but still.) If the developmental promotion has a buzz, it's possible for that buzz to translate to homegrowns making a name for themselves on the indies.

[HMARK Center]

They don't have to "fairly compete with the WWE" -- they'd have to compete with NXT ...

NXT is WWE.

Even if they're not the same product, NXT has the financial, legal, and marketing arms of the WWE behind it.

There's no conceivable way on Earth it'd be a level playing field.

I can't imagine they're going to go whole-hog 1980s exclusivity deals and shady tactics to drive out the territories, but this isn't good for indy wrestling. It'll be very good for a few indy wrestlers, but not most of them, and not for the vast majority of promotions.

[Just call me D.j.m.]

Mar 10, 2015 13:36:49 GMT -5 @akeem said:

So the plan for NXT is to kill the Indy's and give the WWE a complete monopoly in America. Tremendous.

Yep. And it's gonna happen.

And it will still do nothing for the talents moving up to the main roster. So, it'll just be a monopolistic talent raid, solely for the sake of doing it.

[Deleted]

Ultramantis Black for NXT commentator please!

[Johnny Flamingo]

To me this will be nothing like WWF takeover in the 1980's. Back then a lot of those promotions lived and died with their TV deal.

Very few indies, if any, rely on a TV deal as the internet has become the new medium.

My favorite indy promotion is Remix Pro. I seriously doubt WWE running shows in Ohio will make any difference to Remix. I also seriously doubt WWE will try and lock up the Marietta Middle School Gym to prevent Remix from running it just like I doubt they'll try and lock up Flyers Skate Zone to lock out CZW.

If anything this can help the indies as it may open up a few more spaces in NXT. WWE fan sees a wrestler on NXT and finds your promotion (or your promotion get a match on a WWE DVD), instant promotion.

I'm just not seeing this as anything like the territory days.

I see this as WWE trying to get some feedback so that the live NXT tour shows are warmly received and make it worth the investment as they prepare to travel and expand the roster to support live shows. I could also see them using indy guys in opening matches as "tryout" matches and easy ways to scout prospective wrestlers in a live WWE environment.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

Mar 11, 2015 10:06:55 GMT -5 Johnny Flamingo said:

To me this will be nothing like WWF takeover in the 1980's. Back then a lot of those promotions lived and died with their TV deal.

Very few indies, if any, rely on a TV deal as the internet has become the new medium.

My favorite indy promotion is Remix Pro. I seriously doubt WWE running shows in Ohio will make any difference to Remix. I also seriously doubt WWE will try and lock up the Marietta Middle School Gym to prevent Remix from running it just like I doubt they'll try and lock up Flyers Skate Zone to lock out CZW.

If anything this can help the indies as it may open up a few more spaces in NXT. WWE fan sees a wrestler on NXT and finds your promotion (or your promotion get a match on a WWE DVD), instant promotion.

I'm just not seeing this as anything like the territory days.

I see this as WWE trying to get some feedback so that the live NXT tour shows are warmly received and make it worth the investment as they prepare to travel and expand the roster to support live shows. I could also see them using indy guys in opening matches as "tryout" matches and easy ways to scout prospective wrestlers in a live WWE environment.

How many of the territories died because the WWE took their TV deal? The only one that springs to mind was the GCW buyout and that ultimately became a bust because the fanbase rejected the WWF's jobber squash filled offering. The talent raids and dirty tricks designed to stop arenas and PPV carriers hosting their product were a much bigger factors and should the WWE set their heart on it, they'd have a far, far easier time killing indies as live gates are much more important to them.

[Reflecto]

Mar 11, 2015 10:36:25 GMT -5 The Dark Order Inferno said:

Mar 11, 2015 10:06:55 GMT -5 Johnny Flamingo said:

To me this will be nothing like WWF takeover in the 1980's. Back then a lot of those promotions lived and died with their TV deal.

Very few indies, if any, rely on a TV deal as the internet has become the new medium.

My favorite indy promotion is Remix Pro. I seriously doubt WWE running shows in Ohio will make any difference to Remix. I also seriously doubt WWE will try and lock up the Marietta Middle School Gym to prevent Remix from running it just like I doubt they'll try and lock up Flyers Skate Zone to lock out CZW.

If anything this can help the indies as it may open up a few more spaces in NXT. WWE fan sees a wrestler on NXT and finds your promotion (or your promotion get a match on a WWE DVD), instant promotion.

I'm just not seeing this as anything like the territory days.

I see this as WWE trying to get some feedback so that the live NXT tour shows are warmly received and make it worth the investment as they prepare to travel and expand the roster to support live shows. I could also see them using indy guys in opening matches as "tryout" matches and easy ways to scout prospective wrestlers in a live WWE environment.

How many of the territories died because the WWE took their TV deal? The only one that springs to mind was the GCW buyout and that ultimately became a bust because the fanbase rejected the WWF's jobber squash filled offering. The talent raids and dirty tricks designed to stop arenas and PPV carriers hosting their product were a much bigger factors and should the WWE set their heart on it, they'd have a far, far easier time killing indies as live gates are much more important to them.

First off, the talent raids are really noise with how the independent scene has changed- with all the super-indies running around, most of the biggest indy names work everywhere anyway. In the territory days, if the WWF stole some of the biggest stars from a territory, it could cripple them- but if the WWE were going to sign anyone really big on the indy scene, they work in so many different promotions that the blow would be inconsequential. Instead of one promotion being absolutely hobbled by a top name signing with WWE and losing their franchise guy, 10-15 different indy promotions would lose one name out of their Rolodex of people they sometimes bring in- which merely replaces them with the next big indy name on the list.

[Deleted]

I don't worry too much about WWE raiding the indies.

For every guy WWE picks up, there are 3 waiting in the wings to move up the card. Plus when WWE releases and/or a guy asks for his release he generally finds fertile ground on the indies.

Morrison, Trent, Galloway, Meyers even PJ Black is finding some great spots. I'm super stoked to see him vs AR Fox in a couple weeks. I'm sure the list goes on, but you get the idea.

[HMARK Center]

Yeah, it's not really the potential "talent raids" that are the biggest issue. There's plenty of indy wrestlers out there who can rise through the ranks and repopulate the upper-echelon indy companies.

The issue is more NXT running in strong indy markets, appealing directly the indy fanbases, and thus potential splitting those fanbases and hurting business for independent companies. Not saying it's going to happen, but the potential of that happening is the key possible issue.

[Johnny Flamingo]

Mar 11, 2015 12:33:32 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

Yeah, it's not really the potential "talent raids" that are the biggest issue. There's plenty of indy wrestlers out there who can rise through the ranks and repopulate the upper-echelon indy companies.

The issue is more NXT running in strong indy markets, appealing directly the indy fanbases, and thus potential splitting those fanbases and hurting business for independent companies. Not saying it's going to happen, but the potential of that happening is the key possible issue.

I'm thinking that if the indy promotion are smart they will try and promote around the NXT events to try and draw some casual WWE fans that may not have knowledge of indy shows. Could be a potential boost all the way around.