deancubed
Don Corleone
Playing League of Legends
Posts: 1,350
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Post by deancubed on Mar 24, 2015 2:05:05 GMT -5
I stopped reading at INTENSIVE PURPOSES.
Anywayz, Bryan is as popular as he is ever going to get, and that's why he's here - not to make Ziggler look bad. The goal is to elevate the IC title. So if Bryan OR Ziggler win, they are both on that same level - just underneath the main event.
Since Bryan can't be in the main event (its time to admit it, folks, he's not going to be thrust into the WWE title match), the best place for him is directly under it, showcasing the Macho Man title just under the Hogan title. If Macho Man was a B+ player, then it's a compliment. At Mania itself the IC title is underneath a bunch of special attraction showcase matches with celebs and part timers involved. Once those part timers leave after Mania, the IC title picture is for the main eventers to chase when they aren't chasing the WWE WHC.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 3:23:05 GMT -5
I stopped reading at INTENSIVE PURPOSES. Anywayz, Bryan is as popular as he is ever going to get, and that's why he's here - not to make Ziggler look bad. The goal is to elevate the IC title. So if Bryan OR Ziggler win, they are both on that same level - just underneath the main event. Since Bryan can't be in the main event (its time to admit it, folks, he's not going to be thrust into the WWE title match), the best place for him is directly under it, showcasing the Macho Man title just under the Hogan title. If Macho Man was a B+ player, then it's a compliment. At Mania itself the IC title is underneath a bunch of special attraction showcase matches with celebs and part timers involved. Once those part timers leave after Mania, the IC title picture is for the main eventers to chase when they aren't chasing the WWE WHC. I stopped reading at "Anywayz".
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 3:27:37 GMT -5
It was a practice job before he wins the IC Title and gets to the serious jobbing.
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Post by G✇JI☈A on Mar 24, 2015 3:30:08 GMT -5
Uh not watched Raw yet
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,282
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Post by The Ichi on Mar 24, 2015 3:32:09 GMT -5
Anyone else want to see it as Ziggler rising up to be an equal with Bryan? Just me, then? Suits me fine. It's hard to see it as that when the commentators don't do their jobs and SELL it as that.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Mar 24, 2015 3:39:27 GMT -5
Anyone else want to see it as Ziggler rising up to be an equal with Bryan? Just me, then? Suits me fine. It's hard to see it as that when the commentators don't do their jobs and SELL it as that. I'm convinced that SO MANY of WWE's problems wouldn't be so obvious if it were being broadcast by better commentators. Seriously.
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Mar 24, 2015 6:48:28 GMT -5
Anyone else want to see it as Ziggler rising up to be an equal with Bryan? Just me, then? Suits me fine. Yeah sorry but I remember 5 months ago at Survivor Series when people were saying the same things. "Ziggler is made now! Ziggler is finally getting the big push! They're strapping a rocket to him!" And what happened? A whole lot of nothing. He got a win that's already forgotten and now he's right back to where he was before that whole angle, way lower than where he was even 2 years ago. But go ahead, by all means keep eating the plates of shit WWE feeds you and you can tell yourself it's just chocolate ice cream.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Mar 24, 2015 6:54:25 GMT -5
Anyone else want to see it as Ziggler rising up to be an equal with Bryan? Just me, then? Suits me fine. Yeah sorry but I remember 5 months ago at Survivor Series when people were saying the same things. "Ziggler is made now! Ziggler is finally getting the big push! They're strapping a rocket to him!" And what happened? A whole lot of nothing. He got a win that's already forgotten and now he's right back to where he was before that whole angle, way lower than where he was even 2 years ago. But go ahead, by all means keep eating the plates of shit WWE feeds you and you can tell yourself it's just chocolate ice cream. Well, excuse me for trying to have a positive outlook on my wrestling fandom. I didn't think that it was offensive to people for one to have that, but apparently I'm mistaken. And there's no need for personal insults, man. We can have a difference of opinion without taking it into the gutter.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,083
Member is Online
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Mar 24, 2015 6:56:27 GMT -5
Problem is that Ziggler is not equal to Bryan in anyway. He is inferior. He is WWE's home grown attempt at Bryan. He shouldn't be his equal. IT BEGINS...
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,515
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Post by Bo Rida on Mar 24, 2015 7:14:51 GMT -5
Anyone else want to see it as Ziggler rising up to be an equal with Bryan? Just me, then? Suits me fine. That would be great but due to the way it was sold on commentary and recent booking it felt like Bryan was dropping down to Ziggler's level rather than Dolph rising up to Bryan's.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,083
Member is Online
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Mar 24, 2015 7:19:55 GMT -5
The saddest part is that now WWE has finally successfully convinced everyone that Dolph sucks.
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Mar 24, 2015 7:31:21 GMT -5
Yeah sorry but I remember 5 months ago at Survivor Series when people were saying the same things. "Ziggler is made now! Ziggler is finally getting the big push! They're strapping a rocket to him!" And what happened? A whole lot of nothing. He got a win that's already forgotten and now he's right back to where he was before that whole angle, way lower than where he was even 2 years ago. But go ahead, by all means keep eating the plates of shit WWE feeds you and you can tell yourself it's just chocolate ice cream. Well, excuse me for trying to have a positive outlook on my wrestling fandom. I didn't think that it was offensive to people for one to have that, but apparently I'm mistaken. And there's no need for personal insults, man. We can have a difference of opinion without taking it into the gutter. Personal insult? I wouldn't say it was that, but regardless I apologise if you were offended. I maintain the gist of what I was saying though. I think it's naive to suggest that this win will somehow elevate Ziggler when people have been saying the same thing for years and it's led to nothing. Again, I apologise if you were insulted by what I said earlier.
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CH Punk
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Advice: Noted
Stuck in the Retro Zone
Posts: 15,570
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Post by CH Punk on Mar 24, 2015 7:32:43 GMT -5
Anyone else want to see it as Ziggler rising up to be an equal with Bryan? Just me, then? Suits me fine. Considering that the segment ended with "Everyone's dead from the attack. Ladder matches hurt, lol." Everyone was taken down a beg or five.
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Mar 24, 2015 7:33:55 GMT -5
When Reigns beat Bryan to "cement" his match w/ Lesnar, I had an issue. If Sheamus were to beat Bryan in his return match, I'd have an issue.
When Dolph Ziggler, himself an immensely talented and under-appreciated (by management) gets a hard-fought win over Bryan, in pre-Mania RAW Main Event... I have no issue.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 7:45:49 GMT -5
Problem is that Ziggler is not equal to Bryan in anyway. He is inferior. He is WWE's home grown attempt at Bryan. He shouldn't be his equal. IT BEGINS...Not really. I'm a big Ziggler fan but he isn't at Bryan's level. It isn't a crticism, few ever have been.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Mar 24, 2015 7:52:10 GMT -5
Well, excuse me for trying to have a positive outlook on my wrestling fandom. I didn't think that it was offensive to people for one to have that, but apparently I'm mistaken. And there's no need for personal insults, man. We can have a difference of opinion without taking it into the gutter. Personal insult? I wouldn't say it was that, but regardless I apologise if you were offended. I maintain the gist of what I was saying though. I think it's naive to suggest that this win will somehow elevate Ziggler when people have been saying the same thing for years and it's led to nothing. Again, I apologise if you were insulted by what I said earlier. That's OK. Look, here's the thing. I DON'T like everything that WWE does. That's true. I'm not an apologist or nothing like that. I mean, I want my guys in better spots on the card just as much as the next guy. BUT... I'm not going sit here at my computer and say that I know that they're never going to move up the card again, because the fact is that I DON'T know, and really none of us truly 100% KNOW. I've seen enough chosen one golden boy projects (Chris Masters in 2005 and Drew McIntyre in 2009/2010 come to mind) get tossed aside like yesterday's paper to see that it could happen to Reigns as well (and with the way they've seemingly jumbled his WM push, some are saying that that process has already begun). And I've seen workhorse guys like Bryan and Ziggler be pushed down the card only to go back up again enough times to see that it's never too late for them be bolted-on main eventers. I don't begrudge anyone for reaching the conclusions that they do. We're all making these conclusions from logical and reasonable thoughts based on the experience, knowledge and expectations of being wrestling fans. My spin is just a little different from most everyone else's.
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Post by Ruthless Pessimism on Mar 24, 2015 8:25:18 GMT -5
Since the Rumble, everyone has been talking about Ziggler, Ambrose and Bryan getting more big wins.
Ziggler gets a big win and nobody likes it.
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Mar 24, 2015 8:31:26 GMT -5
Personal insult? I wouldn't say it was that, but regardless I apologise if you were offended. I maintain the gist of what I was saying though. I think it's naive to suggest that this win will somehow elevate Ziggler when people have been saying the same thing for years and it's led to nothing. Again, I apologise if you were insulted by what I said earlier. That's OK. Look, here's the thing. I DON'T like everything that WWE does. That's true. I'm not an apologist or nothing like that. I mean, I want my guys in better spots on the card just as much as the next guy. BUT... I'm not going sit here at my computer and say that I know that they're never going to move up the card again, because the fact is that I DON'T know, and really none of us truly 100% KNOW. I've seen enough chosen one golden boy projects (Chris Masters in 2005 and Drew McIntyre in 2009/2010 come to mind) get tossed aside like yesterday's paper to see that it could happen to Reigns as well (and with the way they've seemingly jumbled his WM push, some are saying that that process has already begun). And I've seen workhorse guys like Bryan and Ziggler be pushed down the card only to go back up again enough times to see that it's never too late for them be bolted-on main eventers. I don't begrudge anyone for reaching the conclusions that they do. We're all making these conclusions from logical and reasonable thoughts based on the experience, knowledge and expectations of being wrestling fans. My spin is just a little different from most everyone else's. Yeah but there's a bit of a difference between Reigns' push and Masters or McIntyre's push, for example. Reigns has won the Royal Rumble, broke records and is going to main event WrestleMania. The best Masters got was a brief feud with Shawn Michaels which he lost and Drew McIntyre won the IC title but by 2011, was a complete afterthought. Similarly I've never seen someone who's had the career of Ziggler bounce back to the extent that he's a consistent main eventer. Look at all the bonafide main eventers in WWE history, they had a clear career trajectory and even when they weren't the champion, they were still heavily protected and in major feuds. Hogan, Warrior, HBK, Bret, Austin, Rock, Taker, HHH, Batista, Cena, hell even Orton. None of those guys ever felt as 'lost' for lack of a better term, than Ziggler and to a lesser extent Bryan do right now. There's still time for Bryan. But that sand timer is running down quick.
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Post by sternrogers01 on Mar 24, 2015 8:32:15 GMT -5
It was a great match and I'm glad Ziggler has been getting the rub, and he and Bryan will probably be the long-term programme over the spring and summer, maybe trading the belt back and forth.
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Post by sportatorium on Mar 24, 2015 11:11:03 GMT -5
Anyone who is mad about this outcome should try to name 3 guys in the company more needing and deserving of the two wins over Bryan than Dolph Ziggler. They seem to be using one guy the fans really like to help push another the fans really like. Ziggler comes out of this looking like a big deal who can beat anyone on any given night. Bryan is so over and has established so much credibility that this won't hurt him really. I see no problems I agree with this. Ziggler needed the win & Bryan can get his heat back in one intro segment.
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