Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 22:11:48 GMT -5
So, all things considered, is Russo no different than a random Youtube shooter now?
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Post by cabbageboy on May 23, 2015 22:14:26 GMT -5
I kind of think Vince McMahon is more like the Frank Miller comparison, since Miller actually did have quite a run of well received work spanning his Daredevil run, Batman books, eventually Sin City. The M. Night Shyamalan comparison is eerily correct. Both guys hit a peak in the late 90s with swerve happy shtick, then spent the next 15 years trying to convince everyone that they weren't just one trick ponies (and failed miserably).
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 23, 2015 23:46:29 GMT -5
Cornett has said that Owens doesn't look like a star. Tell me Jim, Owens is basically Vader if Vader was one hundred pounds lighter and more agile. Do you think Vader who weighed in at nearly 450 didn't look like a star as well? To be fair, in his prime Vader absolutely looked more like a star than Owens does right now. That's not a slight against Owens either, he's great; but Vader's sheer presence in his prime was amazing. The 450 pounds helped that, it certainly didn't hinder it. Dude was a monster.
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BlackoutCreature
Grimlock
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Posts: 14,452
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Post by BlackoutCreature on May 24, 2015 9:14:14 GMT -5
I kind of think Vince McMahon is more like the Frank Miller comparison, since Miller actually did have quite a run of well received work spanning his Daredevil run, Batman books, eventually Sin City. The M. Night Shyamalan comparison is eerily correct. Both guys hit a peak in the late 90s with swerve happy shtick, then spent the next 15 years trying to convince everyone that they weren't just one trick ponies (and failed miserably). Russo is Frank Miller. Vince McMahon is Stan Lee.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 24, 2015 9:22:23 GMT -5
I'd say Russo is way more Liefeld than he is Miller.
Miller at one point had/has legitimately great work he could point toward. Liefeld had an incredibly prolific/profitable few years, then kinda became a shorthand punchline. And yet you can still appreciate Rob's stuff if looked at in the context of the time, but it's VERY much of that era and would only ever work there.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 24, 2015 9:32:35 GMT -5
I kind of think Vince McMahon is more like the Frank Miller comparison, since Miller actually did have quite a run of well received work spanning his Daredevil run, Batman books, eventually Sin City. The M. Night Shyamalan comparison is eerily correct. Both guys hit a peak in the late 90s with swerve happy shtick, then spent the next 15 years trying to convince everyone that they weren't just one trick ponies (and failed miserably). Russo is Frank Miller. Vince McMahon is Stan Lee. So does that mean Bruno Sammartino is Steve Ditko?
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Post by Red Impact on May 24, 2015 9:59:12 GMT -5
I'd say Russo is way more Liefeld than he is Miller. Miller at one point had/has legitimately great work he could point toward. Liefeld had an incredibly prolific/profitable few years, then kinda became a shorthand punchline. And yet you can still appreciate Rob's stuff if looked at in the context of the time, but it's VERY much of that era and would only ever work there. Russo was head writer during the biggest moments of the Attitude Era. Austin/McMahon, DX, The Rock, Undertaker/Kane, Mick Foley's championship, that was all under Russo, and it was all great. A lot of things he did with the undercard were emblematic of the time, and yes, he did have people around to temper the ideas, but even here some people pine for the fact that, at the very least, Russo made the undercard matter in a way the WWE doesn't anymore. Liefeld made a underselling title into a moderate success and introduced two characters that only became great after Liefeld left, but he didn't have nearly the dramatic effect on the business or the company as Miller did. Russo's work, as well, helped propel WWE from losing the Monday Night Wars into winning it. And like Miller constantly trying to pull back from his Sin City and Dark Night Rises days, Russo keeps trying to pull back from McMahon/Austin and DX, neither realizing that those have been done so often that they're dry wells now (and to be fair, WWE does a fine job of trying to dip into those wells even without Russo). That's why I think Russo and Miller are better comparisons than Liefeld. Now his booking style is very similar to Shyamalan's twists, but I was talking more about place in the industry than how he prefers to tell a story. Somehow I bet a Vince Russo version of Holy Terror would probably be even more racist. That, and the Fixer would be trying to disarm a terrorist's bomb atop a pole in the climax. Swerve, the bomb is a picture of Scott Hall.
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Post by cabbageboy on May 24, 2015 10:25:13 GMT -5
People will hate this but I see more parallels between Liefeld and Paul Heyman than with Russo. Both had a falling out with management at a major company (Liefeld with Marvel, Heyman in WCW) and broke off to start their own thing. Liefeld and everyone else from Marvel broke off to form Image, Heyman took over ECW. Both capitalized on the whole 90s EXTREME thing (Liefeld with big guns, gritty characters, girls with big boobs...Heyman with the violent hardcore stuff). Heyman however is a far better storyteller, haha.
I'd say Liefeld made X-Force into a massive hit, not just a moderate one. The first issue sold 5 million copies and is the 2nd highest selling comic of all time behind that same year's X-Men #1. It's really no wonder those guys broke off from Marvel, since they were likely making industry scale wages for books that were bringing in insane money.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on May 24, 2015 11:23:28 GMT -5
People will hate this but I see more parallels between Liefeld and Paul Heyman than with Russo. Both had a falling out with management at a major company (Liefeld with Marvel, Heyman in WCW) and broke off to start their own thing. Liefeld and everyone else from Marvel broke off to form Image, Heyman took over ECW. Both capitalized on the whole 90s EXTREME thing (Liefeld with big guns, gritty characters, girls with big boobs...Heyman with the violent hardcore stuff). Heyman however is a far better storyteller, haha. I'd say Liefeld made X-Force into a massive hit, not just a moderate one. The first issue sold 5 million copies and is the 2nd highest selling comic of all time behind that same year's X-Men #1. It's really no wonder those guys broke off from Marvel, since they were likely making industry scale wages for books that were bringing in insane money. And both ultimately ended up damaging their respective industries by building an empire on sand. Liefeld built Awesome Comics around knockoff characters aimed at the speculator market and helped accelerate it's collapse by constantly failing to release his issues of the Deathmate crossover between Image/Valiant in a timely manner, by the time they saw release no-one cared which left retailers stuck with expensive books they couldn't sell to anyone. Heyman built a company around peeling back the curtain with 'shoots' and increasingly violent hardcore matches, a rot that spread to other companies and shaved years off the careers and, I suspect, lives of everyone involved in that style of wrestling, something that just wasn't sustainable over the long term. Both bit the hand that fed them in a big way too, Heyman with TNN and Liefeld with Marvel, then Image. Liefeld gets a tonne of scorn for his track record while Heyman seems to get off scott free unfortunately.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 24, 2015 11:50:49 GMT -5
For me, Heyman is brilliant enough as a performer it overrides anything he killed as a businessman. I've never been an ECW guy anyway, but Paul E. is magic on the mic.
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Post by hunterbusax on May 24, 2015 11:52:25 GMT -5
Russo is Frank Miller. Vince McMahon is Stan Lee. So does that mean Bruno Sammartino is Steve Ditko? Eric Bischoff is bob kane ?
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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 24, 2015 11:54:18 GMT -5
At one point, he was among the most important and influential figures in his industry, coming up with a huge idea that was extremely popular. But he kept trying to draw from the exact same well over and over again, while culture passed him by. Now he's just sad and tired and desperate for attention, and there's no need or reason to give it to him because any value in his voice is long gone. He's the Frank Miller of wrestling. Somehow I bet a Vince Russo version of Holy Terror would probably be even more racist. That, and the Fixer would be trying to disarm a terrorist's bomb atop a pole in the climax. And after he does in a swerve it turns out that the Fixer was the person who set the bomb in the first place...
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Dr. T is an alien
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I've been found out!
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on May 24, 2015 16:23:35 GMT -5
Except Cornette doesn't hate them. He wanted Owens to lose a little bit of weight and trim his beard up a little as he knew WWE wouldn't want him with as big as he got at one point (which is true) and didn't think the El Generico character was good enough to be a top level talent (which is true). Not that he particularly needs it, but I will defend Cornette here. He made those comments after dealing with Steen and coming to the conclusion that Steen likes being the big fish in the small pond and could not be convinced to do the things that he needed to do in order to be given a shot in the WWE. At the time, he was right. Somewhere along the line Steen changed his mind and worked his ass off to become the kind of guy that the WWE would put on their TV shows. Now, Steen is going places but that doesn't prove Cornette wrong because the Steen he was talking about ceased to exist sometime after he made those comments.
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Woo
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Post by Woo on May 24, 2015 18:13:33 GMT -5
I kind of think Vince McMahon is more like the Frank Miller comparison, since Miller actually did have quite a run of well received work spanning his Daredevil run, Batman books, eventually Sin City. The M. Night Shyamalan comparison is eerily correct. Both guys hit a peak in the late 90s with swerve happy shtick, then spent the next 15 years trying to convince everyone that they weren't just one trick ponies (and failed miserably). Russo is Frank Miller. Vince McMahon is Stan Lee. Vince McMahon is Simpsons Stan Lee. Vince: Hold it son. Wouldn't you rather have an exciting Royal Rumble winner? WWE Universe: Ahh, but only Daniel Bryan fits into the Wrestlemania main event. Vince: Ha-are you nuts? Batista fits in there perfectly. Look he's fitting right now. WWE Universe: Ahh! You broke Wrestlemania! Vince: Broke or made it better? (hums 'Stand Back' while re-arranging the rest of the card)
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Johnny D
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Post by Johnny D on May 24, 2015 18:22:31 GMT -5
I saw tonight that Russo is having another with Wrestletalk TV in the UK as he took exception to the questions posed to him in the previous one. Good god you cretin, just leave the business if you can't handle criticism!!
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