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Post by Speedy Cerviche on May 31, 2015 0:22:01 GMT -5
They had their chances. Back when I used to watch TNA regularly, they had a lot going for them. I remember on one forum I posted on that a lot of people there wanted a knockouts-specific show because their women's division was so good at the time. But the company turned out to be all ambition and no planning. They pissed away all their assets trying to apply the WWE formula to themselves because WWE is successful.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on May 31, 2015 10:36:30 GMT -5
It's ironic in a way, but the TNA "Monday Night War" run showed them all along what they should have done. They had really solid numbers for the first week, but then immediately went down the toilet. Why did this happen? A few reasons:
1. The WCW fan is no more - TNA was aiming to bring in the lapsed WCW fans that left after the Monday Night War. The only way to truly do that was if a company somehow started on Monday nights immediately after the WCW closure. The wrestling business moved on, TNA followed in that direction and the product ended up being something that didn't appeal to those fans. The fans just aren't there anymore.
2. Rehashed stars - TNA was on the way to doing what they should have: be the alternative. Just prior to the Hogan/Bischoff deal you had folks like Christopher Daniels, Joe, Styles, Wolfe and Angle getting the main events and doing a good job. As soon as TNA went to Mondays they became a glorified fantasy booking fed with all 'stars' from the 90s and 2000s and it was terrible. They may have talent, but there's a reason folks like Anderson and Hardy are no longer in WWE.
3. Looking for medicine when the company wasn't really sick - Dixie was/is always out for the next great fix for her company: Russo, Bischoff, Hogan, Corgan - all of these minds were supposed to help bring TNA to the next level. In reality, what TNA needed was right in front of their eyes all along - stars like Styles, Roode, Storm, Young, Angle and Joe. If they truly built around that core six for years instead of shuffling in guys like Hogan, Sting, Anderson and Hardy, I feel like they might be in a better place.
4. Marketing - Dixie is your typical PR flack, but she's an awful marketer. What do the letters TNA mean to you? Exactly. What do the stars like Roode, Storm and Styles mean? Nothing. James Storm was a surefire crossover superstar in the making - get him on CMT, get him on other southern-themed programming and I guarantee you you'd bring in more folks. I'm in PR and TNA is the perfect example of what happens when you have great PR but no marketing. Sure, TNA was on morning shows and other programming, but they never had a clear marketing campaign that resonated.
The failure of TNA (and let's be honest, even if it's still on TV it's a failure) is solely on the hands of Dixie Carter and her inept management. Nobody should ever, ever give this woman a company again - I don't care if it's not even a wrestling company. She's not a leader. A leader surrounds themselves with smart people that can make the tough decisions. Dixie is a pushover.
The success of Ring of Honor speaks volumes to the way that TNA should have conducted itself - ROH never tried to get too big for its britches and if they did, they managed to quickly course correct. It's now the No. 2 wrestling promotion in the world, which is a pretty amazing accomplishment that the whole company should be proud of achieving.
The end is coming for TNA, though, and that absolutely sucks given what they could have been for the industry - a place for great performers to ply their craft and a blueprint for how to succeed WITHOUT trying to be WWE.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on May 31, 2015 14:14:29 GMT -5
They broke two million viewers at some point while Mick was there.
And didn't they get their best ever rating on the first night of the new MNW? Honestly I was hoping at the time that the second Monday Night War would work for them, but it just didn't.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on May 31, 2015 14:23:43 GMT -5
They broke two million viewers at some point while Mick was there. And didn't they get their best ever rating on the first night of the new MNW? Honestly I was hoping at the time that the second Monday Night War would work for them, but it just didn't. The first Monday show was a ballsy move that got them quite a bit of attention. It would have been great if it was the only show on Monday they ever did, using the added publicity to build on their existing fan base. Moving the show to Monday permanently (during Mania season no less) was a stupid idea that should have never been considered. Even TNA's existing audience had reservations about choosing Impact over Raw on a weekly basis, much less anyone new to the company. The shows also took a downturn in quality because they were listening to Hogan, subjecting us to Nasty Boys and Sean Morely while Daniels and Desmond Wolfe went from main eventers to jobbers overnight.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 31, 2015 14:41:46 GMT -5
They broke two million viewers at some point while Mick was there. And didn't they get their best ever rating on the first night of the new MNW? Honestly I was hoping at the time that the second Monday Night War would work for them, but it just didn't. The first Monday show was a ballsy move that got them quite a bit of attention. It would have been great if it was the only show on Monday they ever did, using the added publicity to build on their existing fan base. Moving the show to Monday permanently (during Mania season no less) was a stupid idea that should have never been considered. Even TNA's existing audience had reservations about choosing Impact over Raw on a weekly basis, much less anyone new to the company. The shows also took a downturn in quality because they were listening to Hogan, subjecting us to Nasty Boys and Sean Morely while Daniels and Desmond Wolfe went from main eventers to jobbers overnight. Wasn;t the first night of the monday night war thing the 3 hour thing they did? IF so I remember the statement was that the unopposed hour saved them from the 2 hours that went up against RAW's rating.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 31, 2015 15:14:45 GMT -5
The first Monday show was a ballsy move that got them quite a bit of attention. It would have been great if it was the only show on Monday they ever did, using the added publicity to build on their existing fan base. Moving the show to Monday permanently (during Mania season no less) was a stupid idea that should have never been considered. Even TNA's existing audience had reservations about choosing Impact over Raw on a weekly basis, much less anyone new to the company. The shows also took a downturn in quality because they were listening to Hogan, subjecting us to Nasty Boys and Sean Morely while Daniels and Desmond Wolfe went from main eventers to jobbers overnight. Wasn;t the first night of the monday night war thing the 3 hour thing they did? IF so I remember the statement was that the unopposed hour saved them from the 2 hours that went up against RAW's rating. I believe they did the hour early thing like a month after they started the "war" because they wanted to take away from Raw as you stated. As mentioned before it was foolish of them to even think about starting this war during Wrestlemania season, which speaks to the arrogance of Eric and Hogan. They were drawing their highest ratings I believe in 2010 or at least beat their highest rating and should of been bright enough to make the Monday night shows their own specials once in a while but instead we got a crazy idea of them thinking they could steal viewers from Raw.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2015 16:22:48 GMT -5
They f***ed up so badly on Genesis 2006. It was the most hyped up and bought TNA PPV ever because it was going to be Kurt Angle's debut match against the undefeated Samoa Joe. This was the PPV where there was lots of first time viewers of TNA or people who seen very little of TNA getting it because of the hype surrounding it. What did they get?
-VKM declaring war on the WWE in a embarrassing segment and crappy short match -Bunch of boring to average matches -LAX losing their titles after winning a match because they wanted to burn an American Flag in a embarrassing awkward long segment -Abyss winning the main championship by DQ in a finish that was heavily botched -A very anti climatic short match between Kurt Angle and Samoa Joe in which it was being billed as the match of the Century.
It was a horrible first impression too many first time buyers and viewers and TNA would never draw a big PPV again until Lockdown 2008.
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
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Post by chrom on May 31, 2015 16:27:58 GMT -5
The first Monday show was a ballsy move that got them quite a bit of attention. It would have been great if it was the only show on Monday they ever did, using the added publicity to build on their existing fan base. Moving the show to Monday permanently (during Mania season no less) was a stupid idea that should have never been considered. Even TNA's existing audience had reservations about choosing Impact over Raw on a weekly basis, much less anyone new to the company. The shows also took a downturn in quality because they were listening to Hogan, subjecting us to Nasty Boys and Sean Morely while Daniels and Desmond Wolfe went from main eventers to jobbers overnight. Wasn;t the first night of the monday night war thing the 3 hour thing they did? IF so I remember the statement was that the unopposed hour saved them from the 2 hours that went up against RAW's rating. And they opened up that hour with THAT match that had the entire crowd in attendance chanting "This is Bull****!!" killing any chance of new viewers sticking around for the rest of the show or the following weeks. Not even five minutes in and they killed whatever chance they could've possibly had in attracting new watchers.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
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Post by Sephiroth on May 31, 2015 17:13:15 GMT -5
TNA never really made the most out of some of their most important relationships either. Said many times that during their prime Impact Zone years they should have been all over Universal to start promoting the Impact Zone in their advertising for the theme park, or to let them try doing some taping from a studio at the park in California. Mick Foley appeared on the Daily Show while he was in TNA-they should have hyped that all over. They should have eased with Jon Stewart to appear on an episode of Impact.
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Post by StormanReigns on May 31, 2015 17:30:58 GMT -5
Someone at TNA thought it would be a good idea to bring in the 50 year old Nasty Boys.
3-4 months before Hogan came, TNA was at its best. Getting really good ratings, but then you know, Hogan wanted his buddies in the company...
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NOwave
Don Corleone
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Post by NOwave on May 31, 2015 18:25:16 GMT -5
YES, depending on how you define “big.” The original concept of the Jarretts was based on: 1) a large segment of the old WCW audience did NOT go to the WWF in 2001 when WCW died. Many of them simply felt the wrestling “product” was not interested in their business anymore. 2) The assumption that a % of that audience could be attracted back to wrestling, if the product was properly presented. 3) That audience was largely southern, and therefore could be served by a relatively less expensive travel circuit of house shows, 4) there was a market for weekly PPVs at a lower price than than the traditional monthly wrestling PPV. 5) there were enough remaining WCW stars available, with enough name recognition remaining to get a new company off the ground in 2002-3.
Some of those assumptions turned out to be true, but several problems developed: 1) the Jarretts by themselves were undercapitalized. While both Jeff and Jerry were relatively wealthy men, they did NOT have the immense deep pockets needed to make the product work on a scale necessary for longterm success. THey had to find new investors. 2) The Jarretts made bad choices when picking investors. The first few possibilities fell apart altogether. THe ultimate choice, the Carters, knew nothing about the business initially, and were vulnerable to predictable mistakes. 3) Jerry Jarrett, who is clearly a wrestling genius 2nd only to perhaps Vince McMahon, was essentially bought out of his own creation, partly as a side effect of the falling out he had with son Jeff. In addition, realistically, Jerry was retirement age at the time, and probably past the point of putting out the level of energy and concentration necessary for the development of a new wrestling company.
So, I think if the Jarretts had found the right investor-basically a silent partner who was in effect a pure venture capitalist-and allowed them to continue managing the company, it would have helped tremendously. Jerry could have eased into retirement as a senior advisor and steady hand as Jeff learned how to manage a promotion. The ridiculous overspending (multiple washed up WWE guys, HOGAN and BISCHOFF, the Monday night move, going live on a traveling basis) would hopefully have been reined in, and they could have kept the Spike TV deal.
I could see TNA maintaining a base in Orlando, with perhaps monthly house shows and quarterly PPVs in a few key spots, including a number of the old NWA strongholds. Charlotte, Atlanta, Baltimore, Nashville, Memphis, Birmingham, Tampa, Jacksonville, New Orleans, Dallas, etc. Would they still be a “minor league” compared to WWE? Sure, but could they have turned a profit? I really think they could have, and employed a lot of wrestling talent at the same time.
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Post by benstudd on Jun 3, 2015 16:41:35 GMT -5
If you dig a little, like others have said, the Jarretts wanted to recapture the lost WCW fans, so that's why Jeff kept teasing us with multiple appearances of former WCW/WWE stars even early on. The first TNA show was basically indie guys plus Scott Hall, Jeff Jarrett, Ken Shamrock and Bryan Christopher.
TNA always wanted to be WWE/WCW-lite cause that's the audience they wanted to cater. They wanted WCW fans with ECW-like money and production value. They didn't want to be progressive when they brought up the X Division, they just wanted to copy the WCW cruiserweight division.
So I think the apex of that plan and model came into its own really around 2009 when TNA stars feuded with the MEM. Jarrett had his big stars nWo-type group that involved TNA young stars somewhat. And they actually got good ratings, 1.3 on average for the whole year. I actually think the show was atrocious but JJ got what he wanted. It was sort of working. Then it went south somehow. I know the later part of 09 was much better but they never got those numbers of the group that had Nash, Booker, Sting, Angle, Steiner in it.
But like others have said, it would have been better if they had done something more progressive early on, do something new and unique. Or if you want to be WCW-lite then just do that. Don't do crass things, don't hire Russo, don't get Cheex. Hire Tony Shiavonni has announcer. Try to cater to the traditional fans of the territories, of the 80s NWA or of WCW of the 90s. They could have hired only Sting, Flair and Nash for the nostalgic and maybe Steiner and Buff in tag teams, then have all these guys mentor a new breed of wrestlers.
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Big Poppa Pumpkin
Dennis Stamp
I'll be in the back polishing............ my belt.
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Post by Big Poppa Pumpkin on Jun 3, 2015 17:48:53 GMT -5
Depends on your definition of 'big'. pre-2000 WCW or WWE sized? No chance.
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