Billy Corgan on THE SWERVE

[Deleted]

hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/9/c/e/9ce36810fdba6d92/The_Swerve_Billy_Corgan_Part_1.mp3?c_id=9129772&expiration=1433403307&hwt=e637d9497cf6b205683c707e2b285ff0

[Tony Schiavontay]

SWERVE! He's actually felt like a rat in a large open field. And today is only the second greatest day he's ever known.

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

Can someone take one for the team and give a summary? If I listen to those 2 my head will explode

[evilone]

It seems they're both tight and they knew each other for a very long time. They see super fan community as a threat that should not be catered to a full extent as it will always bitch about something no matter what they do.

Billy had a good remark saying that if he let his fans book the concerts his concerts would consist of only '93-'95 songs when he was the most popular thus failing to attract any other fans that have missed that era and got hooked to SP by maybe some different or newer work. In other words he said "I have to sell my new stuff by making you come to listen to some of your favorites" much like any musician on stage.

I think the bottom line was that wrestling is out of touch with reality and it needs a quick cut witch would either reward it or drown it. Billy specifically commented on naïve babyfaces and heels shallow categorization of characters that you cant get invested into nor care about most of them.

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

The problem with Corgan's logic is that TNA only has the hardcore fans as their audience, no casuals care about that company, they never did. RVD and Nash told that everytime they went to the airport people asked them why they retired, and back then they were on spike.

[Final Countdown Jones]

I know when I think of TNA, my biggest gripe was always that it never had enough elements and wrestlers from the early-to-mid '90s.

[Welfare Willis]

Jun 4, 2015 7:44:36 GMT -5 OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 said:

Can someone take one for the team and give a summary? If I listen to those 2 my head will explode

Quick note: I tried to copy the gist of what they're saying. If you have a question try to listen to the interview because I may have missed something. Also apologizes for my grammar. I was trying to type to keep up with the conversation.

The show starts off with Russo introducing guest Billy Corgan. Russo tells a quick story of his sons meeting Billy Corgan. Russo mentions his two favorite albums are Mechanical Animals by Manson and Celebrity Skin.

Russo asks Billly what it's like collaborating with other musicians and Russo says, "When I'm in a creative wrestling session usually where we would have arguments and where we wouldn't get along where Vince Russo would have issues is when it would go back to traditional wrestling and babyfaces and heels. And that's when I would just wave the white flag and tap out and it would be the end of the conversation." He then ask about what creative differences are like between a Marilyn Manson or Courtney Love and himself. Billy says there were never any collaborative issues with those two. Billy says he love to collaborate because of his experience in bands over the years. Even if it means getting people to agree with what you want to do so they're not dragging their feet. Talks about how once you reach a certain level of talent you're working with their convictions. They have a vision of who they want to be and want you want to do is clarify their vision so you can get the best version of the person possible.

Russo then talks about wrestling and writing psychology involved. Russo talks about wrestlers not being able to see the forest for the trees, "They see whats in front of them. We see what's happening down the road. They know what they're doing that night. So you have to work them. It's wrestling everybody is working everybody". Russo asked if he ever did that on a musical level. Billy said there was some politicking involved. Billy then talked about how the Pumpkins moved in a new direction from Gish to Siamese Dream and forward. Says you want people invested, involved, and on the same page.

Russo talks about Billy's success with the Pumpkins and change. He praises Billy's ability to take risks. Russo says the problem with WWE is they're doing what they know. What they are doing isn't working in 2015. Russo asks Billy how difficult it was to make those changes musically. Billy talks about risks versus reward. He relates back to wrestling and says those who take great risks end up prospering in the long term. That's the beautiful situation with TNA in that the business side has forced them to take those risks. Billy likes that situation instead of trying to protect his spot. Ultimately it's risks versus reward.

Russo asks Billy to agree with him that Rap is not music. It's people singing rhymes no different than Dr. Suess. Billy says it's hard to say anything isn't music. He understands what he means, but talks about music today and raps influence on music today. He says how there's plenty of bad music to go around.

Russo then talks about depression and how he suffered for depression for 32 years. Mentions how he painted himself in a corner because there's only a few places he could go. He talked about the overwhelming fear of not having a job to support his family. Asks Billy about his depression and being able to write his own ticket. Asks Billy how he deals with it. Billy talks about finding something in yourself that is a constant. That's what's about music, wrestling, or movies is it's escapist entertainment. Says success brought out the worst traits in him. Took him a long time to understand what's important. Says wasn't until late 30-40 until he built a different value system not based on music or ticket sales. Now involved with TNA he's been criticized for being a mark or being fooled. Billy says he knows how to help an entertainment brand be successful in an entertainment industry. "Yet some guy with his laptop decides I'm not qualified because he doesn't like my music or I didn't say the right thing in some interview." Talks about god is love is truth. Talks about if you don't believe in that then you don't believe in anything. Billy talks about Russo's nuclear heat and knowing Russo as a man.

Russo asks Billy about the Cubs. Yeah.

Russo then goes to wrestling. Asks him about Billy leaving Resistance Pro and his reality show pilot. Billy talks about AMC cancelling their reality tv pilots. Billy talks about execs liking the show and people say it was "the coolest show they've worked on". Billy tried to shop it around but networks didn't want anything to do with wrestling. Says it's funny because wrestling always draws.

Russo asks about Billy and his relationship with TNA. Asks how that relationship went to the next level. He says it was JB's fault. He tried to collaborate with TNA on the reality show pilot. TNA would have been the brass ring (Wrestlers on the show in Resistance Pro would want to go to TNA as their big goal). At the time Dixie said no. Said it was Big wanting to bring him in.

Russo then talks about the Attitude Era. Russo talks about the formula for success and how when he left WWF they went back to what they knew: wrestling. In the past fifteen years, wrestling ratings have been in decline. Says the popular excuse is wrestling works in waves. Russo says he still loves the business and asks why the decline in ratings. Billy says wrestling is behind the times, but when it's best is when it's on point or ahead of the times. Creatively, wrestling is behind the times. Cites the characters of breaking bad, boardwalk empire, and deadwood and the level of sophistication of those characters. Moral conundrums and social ambiguity. Billy says playing in the middle and not defining good guy and bad guy can be bad as well. Billy doesn't understand why entertainment brands don't take advantage of what other entertainment brands are doing in telling stories.

Russo agrees with Billy. Russo says there are people in the wrestling business who grew up with the business and only do what works in the 60s and 70s because that's all they know. Cites Bruce Prichard and Jeff Jarrett and says he grew tired of the fight. Russo talked about Lucha Underground and how they handled the product like it's a television show so no wrestling bs whatsoever. Says there is not much more wrestling presence creatively in TNA anymore. Now there is a foundation to entertain the masses. Russo now feels the reigns will be put on again because wrestling is safe. Asks Billy how he will get over that hump. Billy talks about talent and how they been trained by traditional wrestling world. It's not a good or bad thing, but how can you take what you have and maximize it? How can you tell a story in a way the audience has seen before. So it's having a respect for tradition and still being able to subvert it. Says this where Vince Russo is right that someone is going to create a new business model for wrestling and make wrestling look three steps behind. Says Vince Russo doesn't hate wrestling, but is trying to create this new business model. Says that the transformation of the nice guy outside the ring and the heel in the ring is fascinating. Says we are starting to see shows address that and cites Total Divas. However, Total Divas isn't a true portrayal of wrestling and wrestlers real life. Movies show you can show actors behind the scenes and use that heat to get them over in a new way.

Russo talks about accusations of him defending TNA and being on the payroll. Talks about the negativity of the dirtsheets and Dixie Carter being heavily influenced by the dirt sheets. Russo tried to convince her the hardcore fans will continue to watch and go after the masses. He got tired of trying to explain it and waved the white flag. Talks about the Royal Rumble and WWE catering to the IWC and forgetting more and more about casual fans. Talks about seeing more and more wrestling and numbers decreasing more and more. Says he believes wrestling is turning more into niche market. Billy thinks the internet is starting to book the promotions. Says if he let his fans book his concerts then he'd only be playing music between 1994-1996. Those hardcore fans will never be satisfied. Talks about Punk's pipebomb promo and how at some point he had to do what's best for the WWE. Fans don't know the business side of pro wrestling. Says even he didn't know the business side as a fan and he knew people in the business. It's very dangerous to let fans book because they can't see the long term 10-15 years down the road. They're booking for today.

Russo asks why, especially in the WWE, he thinks it got this way? Billy talks about business models and internet traffic leading somewhere, but no one knows where it'll lead. These people are not technologically loyal (myspace to facebook for example) dependent, but these technologies haven't really made real money (like twitter). People are fighting for position in the social media sphere. Those business models cannot empower a fan to think he can book in a promotion. Because once you go there there is no turning back. Those fans cannot be satisfy. It's like a spoiled child wanting a cookie. The wrestling business is about the swerve, the anticipation and the long term.

After the interview, Russo got off his knees and grabbed a towel. It was the typical Russo stuff we've heard many times before, but it was fascinating to hear Billy I guess. Funny that Billy didn't take Russo's rap bait.

[Mister Pigwell]

^Big props for being the one to give the play-by-play this time, I was worried I was going to have to do this one. My encounters with Dixie's were enough. *shudders*

Only complaint I have is you didn't do a "bro" count.

[________ has left the building]

I used to think Billy Corgan was a misunderstood genius who would be a boon for wrestling until Resistance Pro happened and I quickly realized he took the worst traits for Heyman & Russo and made that his mindset.

[Mister Pigwell]

I do find it fascinating that one of his favorite albums is a Manson one. Just... doesn't seem fitting for him. Or maybe it's perfectly fitting come to think of it.

"They doing what isn't working in 2015."
I know it's just my opinion but I actually really like what WWE is doing right now. Yeah the RAWs aren't always the greatest but I've been having a positive time since WM31. Admittedly though it might be my children's influence. To say what they're doing isn't working isn't something I agree with personally, I think WWE has a really bright near-future.

"Russo asks Billy to agree with him that Rap is not music. It's people singing rhymes no different than Dr. Suess."
Bro... Just no. Come the f*** on this is a bigoted statement.


"The wrestling business is about the swerve and the long term. "
1. You don't book anything for the long term. You're about quick turns and swerves and chaos. Don't front.
2. All about the swerve, this man is a parody of himself.

[Magic knows Black Lives Matter]

Jun 4, 2015 14:26:17 GMT -5 Welfare Willis said:

Russo then talks about wrestling and writing psychology involved. Russo talks about wrestlers not being able to see the forest for the trees, "They see whats in front of them. We see what's happening down the road. They know they're doing that night. So you have to work them.

Stopped reading right here. f*** off, Russo. You can't keep your own stories straight, who are you to be talking about "seeing the forest?" A Carny to the very end

Thanks for the summary though.

[Tony Schiavontay]

Jun 4, 2015 16:35:18 GMT -5 Magic knows Black Lives Matter said:

Jun 4, 2015 14:26:17 GMT -5 Welfare Willis said:

Russo then talks about wrestling and writing psychology involved. Russo talks about wrestlers not being able to see the forest for the trees, "They see whats in front of them. We see what's happening down the road. They know they're doing that night. So you have to work them.

Stopped reading right here. f*** off, Russo. You can't keep your own stories straight, who are you to be talking about "seeing the forest?" A Carny to the very end

Thanks for the summary though.

Here's the thing that fans don't understand and I swear on my children's grave, it's about ratings bro.

[Magic knows Black Lives Matter]

Nobody click on the link now that we have the summary. Don't give this bullshit any more listens than it deserves.

[A Platypus Rave]

Jun 4, 2015 16:35:18 GMT -5 Magic knows Black Lives Matter said:

Jun 4, 2015 14:26:17 GMT -5 Welfare Willis said:

Russo then talks about wrestling and writing psychology involved. Russo talks about wrestlers not being able to see the forest for the trees, "They see whats in front of them. We see what's happening down the road. They know they're doing that night. So you have to work them.

Stopped reading right here. f*** off, Russo. You can't keep your own stories straight, who are you to be talking about "seeing the forest?" A Carny to the very end

Thanks for the summary though.

Bro... you just don't get what he was going for... and the creative control bro... and the standard and practices...

Also bro, did I tell you that I created STone Cold and The Rock and am the sole reason they were popular?

[Deleted]

So weird to see Corgan and Russo coming together like this.

Russo's big problem is that he fancies himself a rulebreaker in professional wrestling without having any sense of what the rules even are. He's like if JJ Abrams signed on to write Star Wars without actually being in space or having any sci fi elements, since these ideas are relics, the internet would have you believing that Star Wars had to be in space all the time but that's old thinking. It's not even an oldschool vs. new school argument like he tries to make it, it's almost impossible to write a wrestling show without acknowledging that it's a competitive sport where wrestlers want to be the best at wrestling.

[chazraps]

Russo's such a dumb out-of-touch racist.

[Urfarkendarf]

Two complete narcissists yakking, bro.

[Emmet Russell]

Just thinking of these two talking about wrestling together gives me cold chills and a headache. Thankfully, I don't have to actually listen to them, but even the rundown had me furious.

[Johnny Flamingo]

Russo is an idiot that really needs someone like Vince to reign him in.

I don't agree with everything Corgan said but I find he isn't that bad. Problem with Corgan is he lacks experience in wrestling and he really needs to have more experience. I will admit to being a huge Smashing Pumpkins fan and if Billy has a problem is that he is going to see out his vision no matter what. Sometimes his vision is genius, other times it is close to disaster. Still I can see him doing well if he gains more experience and the right people around him.

[evilone]

Jun 5, 2015 13:09:28 GMT -5 chazraps said:

Russo's such a dumb out-of-touch racist.

Because of a rap thing?