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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 16:39:25 GMT -5
It was quite a nice change of pace from his usual throat-shredding yell-fests. I thought the minor league talk was fine, and completely accurate in the WWE narrative. Cena seemed to put his foot in his mouth quite a bit the last two weeks, I think he's losing again, this time through cheating/interference. But NXT is part of WWE canon, and NXT talents seem to be presented as higher in the company pecking order than certain WWE main roster talents. Who would interfere on Owens behalf when he's feuding with everyone and their mother? It varies, I guess. Obviously Kevin Owens is on par with anyone. Neville went from top guy on NXT to a strong midcarder on Raw. Other NXT people have come in and flamed out. But in WWE, their story is always that WWE is the pinnacle, and any other promotion isn't on their level, so what he said about Owens' NXT/indies career didn't stick out to me at all. As for who would interfere on Owens' behalf? Good question. I just think Cena's being awfully mouthy about all this and it's setting him up to get beat again. Can't see TWO clean wins for Owens in a row, but I could see him hitting a low blow or using a weapon leading to the win, something like that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 16:47:19 GMT -5
But the NXT Superstars generally think that Owens' assholistic behavior makes him a poor representative of NXT and they'd gladly watch Cena put him in his place. Except Cena just called them all minor leaguers and doesn't think their experience is worth a damn. Even if they don't like Owens he has stood up for their brand in his way. He didn't say their experience meant nothing, he said no one's going to remember them for NXT accomplishments. It's not exactly true, but comparing Babe Ruth to the minor league home run leader was a pretty solid point. I agree that it doesn't make NXT look good, but I don't see why they need to keep developmental strong. If a wrestler comes from there and kicks Cena's ass like Owens did, it's not going to matter that NXT is the minor leagues, because they showed that they can do it in the big leagues too.
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AFN: Judge Shred
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Jun 9, 2015 16:51:32 GMT -5
Except Cena just called them all minor leaguers and doesn't think their experience is worth a damn. Even if they don't like Owens he has stood up for their brand in his way. He didn't say their experience meant nothing, he said no one's going to remember them for NXT accomplishments. It's not exactly true, but comparing Babe Ruth to the minor league home run leader was a pretty solid point. I agree that it doesn't make NXT look good, but I don't see why they need to keep developmental strong. If a wrestler comes from there and kicks Cena's ass like Owens did, it's not going to matter that NXT is the minor leagues, because they showed that they can do it in the big leagues too. He pretty much said that Owens' experience meant nothing until he walked down the ramp on Raw, and in general has been a condescending prick to Owens since he showed up. I don't think they need to keep development strong either, but the guys in it should be defending it and proud, but also proud of themselves for their years in the indies.
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Post by angryfan on Jun 9, 2015 20:26:33 GMT -5
I'm almost 100% sure him burying Nxt is the WWE working smarks. Nxt is the hip new brand with less flash, and more substance, represented by Kevin Owens. WWE is the established entity with tons of money backing it, represented by John Cena. I'm sure the writers know this, and are working you smarks. I agree that's probably the case, but think of how batshit insane that is. Let's work an audience that we claim to not care about because they don't matter by having super good guy piss all over this new brand we're getting going that will produce all of our future stars to the casual fans who might not have seen NXT (for just 9.99)so that they realize all of these new guys we're bringing up aren't worth a damn compared to Mr. super good guy hero". Nowhere else would we see that logic.
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percymania
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Post by percymania on Jun 9, 2015 21:16:52 GMT -5
If Cena were to apply himself as a commentator, he would be fantastic at it.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jun 9, 2015 21:18:28 GMT -5
So I bit the bullet and watched the Neville/Owens match, and I gotta agree with CATCH_US, WWE is kinda framing this feud in a bitter and angry context it doesn't really need.
They should be selling it as a winding down legend versus an exciting WWE newcomer with a dream, but instead they're emphasizing the negatives of each superstar with Cena's arrogance and Owens's sociopathy. I get they want to keep milking the Cena Sucks sentiment, but I don't think Owens has done enough to Cena for him to treat it like it's a life or death blood war, and the worst thing Owens's kid could pick up from Cena is an obsessive cleaning habit.
This is one of those cases where a face on face feud would have been more fun for me. I don't want them having tea dates in the middle of the ring, but I would have written it more like the Cena /Bryan program, sans the "I'm a real wrestler" promo.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Jun 9, 2015 21:29:17 GMT -5
I was too distracted by that poop on his nose.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 21:31:50 GMT -5
I'm almost 100% sure him burying Nxt is the WWE working smarks. Nxt is the hip new brand with less flash, and more substance, represented by Kevin Owens. WWE is the established entity with tons of money backing it, represented by John Cena. I'm sure the writers know this, and are working you smarks. I agree that's probably the case, but think of how batshit insane that is. Let's work an audience that we claim to not care about because they don't matter by having super good guy piss all over this new brand we're getting going that will produce all of our future stars to the casual fans who might not have seen NXT (for just 9.99)so that they realize all of these new guys we're bringing up aren't worth a damn compared to Mr. super good guy hero". Nowhere else would we see that logic. That can't even happen though, because the people he's antagonizing are the ones that are going to love Kevin Owens etc. no matter what. Think of the people who buy tickets to see NXT live, are any of them going to be dissuaded by Cena calling it the minor leagues? It's totally to play up Cena's half heel/half face deal, and I can't see it actually hurting NXT whatsoever.
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Post by angryfan on Jun 9, 2015 21:42:00 GMT -5
I agree that's probably the case, but think of how batshit insane that is. Let's work an audience that we claim to not care about because they don't matter by having super good guy piss all over this new brand we're getting going that will produce all of our future stars to the casual fans who might not have seen NXT (for just 9.99)so that they realize all of these new guys we're bringing up aren't worth a damn compared to Mr. super good guy hero". Nowhere else would we see that logic. That can't even happen though, because the people he's antagonizing are the ones that are going to love Kevin Owens etc. no matter what. Think of the people who buy tickets to see NXT live, are any of them going to be dissuaded by Cena calling it the minor leagues? It's totally to play up Cena's half heel/half face deal, and I can't see it actually hurting NXT whatsoever. Right, but the "they're all minor leaguers and don't matter" bit, that wasn't just Owens, that was everyone down there. Now if the goal is to get the kids hooked, to make them look at the guys coming up and go "He's the next Cena, I want his shirt, I want his action figure" (and thus, profit), how does "They're bush league, and I'm the hero" sell these guys to the people who aren't already invested in them? It won't hurt NXT, it won't hurt THAT audience. It will, however, reinforce the mantra that the "casual fans" have of "if it ain't main event, it ain't important". The guys coming up all got Kofi'ed, essentially.
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Post by joeiscool on Jun 9, 2015 21:47:10 GMT -5
I'm almost 100% sure him burying Nxt is the WWE working smarks. Nxt is the hip new brand with less flash, and more substance, represented by Kevin Owens. WWE is the established entity with tons of money backing it, represented by John Cena. I'm sure the writers know this, and are working you smarks. I agree that's probably the case, but think of how batshit insane that is. Let's work an audience that we claim to not care about because they don't matter by having super good guy piss all over this new brand we're getting going that will produce all of our future stars to the casual fans who might not have seen NXT (for just 9.99)so that they realize all of these new guys we're bringing up aren't worth a damn compared to Mr. super good guy hero". Nowhere else would we see that logic. Only a smark would think like this. This is why it works.
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AFN: Judge Shred
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Jun 9, 2015 21:48:43 GMT -5
That can't even happen though, because the people he's antagonizing are the ones that are going to love Kevin Owens etc. no matter what. Think of the people who buy tickets to see NXT live, are any of them going to be dissuaded by Cena calling it the minor leagues? It's totally to play up Cena's half heel/half face deal, and I can't see it actually hurting NXT whatsoever. Right, but the "they're all minor leaguers and don't matter" bit, that wasn't just Owens, that was everyone down there. Now if the goal is to get the kids hooked, to make them look at the guys coming up and go "He's the next Cena, I want his shirt, I want his action figure" (and thus, profit), how does "They're bush league, and I'm the hero" sell these guys to the people who aren't already invested in them? It won't hurt NXT, it won't hurt THAT audience. It will, however, reinforce the mantra that the "casual fans" have of "if it ain't main event, it ain't important". The guys coming up all got Kofi'ed, essentially. They make it work one way, and that is Cena losing clean to the point he has to eat crow, go in the ring, and say "I was wrong about NXT you guys are the real deal". My favorite way to do that would be to build to a Survivor Series match Cena's stars versus Owens and the NXT crew, and NXT cleans house. Then you have Team Cena do the respect handshakes and such.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 21:49:16 GMT -5
That can't even happen though, because the people he's antagonizing are the ones that are going to love Kevin Owens etc. no matter what. Think of the people who buy tickets to see NXT live, are any of them going to be dissuaded by Cena calling it the minor leagues? It's totally to play up Cena's half heel/half face deal, and I can't see it actually hurting NXT whatsoever. Right, but the "they're all minor leaguers and don't matter" bit, that wasn't just Owens, that was everyone down there. Now if the goal is to get the kids hooked, to make them look at the guys coming up and go "He's the next Cena, I want his shirt, I want his action figure" (and thus, profit), how does "They're bush league, and I'm the hero" sell these guys to the people who aren't already invested in them? It won't hurt NXT, it won't hurt THAT audience. It will, however, reinforce the mantra that the "casual fans" have of "if it ain't main event, it ain't important". The guys coming up all got Kofi'ed, essentially. The only way those fans are shown the NXT wrestlers are for real is them coming up and winning matches. Kevin Owens beat John Cena. Neville had Cena beat (kinda?). Zayn took Cena to the limit despite an injury. Anything Cena says about NXT is irrelevant at that point. All it does is make him more of a heel to the portion of the crowd that cares about NXT, and I'd wager that portion doesn't overlap heavily with the CeNation. It's not about NXT's strength as a brand anyway, it's about the wrestlers coming out of it. There won't be any NXT "stench" if a guy comes in kicking ass out of the gate the way Owens has, and to a lesser extent Neville. Meanwhile, if they get booked like Emma or Xavier Woods, the fans will realize there's no need to care about them.
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Post by eJm on Jun 10, 2015 0:19:29 GMT -5
What is it with WWE wanting to mess with a formula that has worked for the sake of trying to do something they either don't mean or a shallow attempt to make money from people that they are probably already making the money from.
Owens is a heel. Cena is the face.
Owens hates Cena and what he stands for, Cena thinks Owens is a dick because of how he treats people including his best friend Zayn.
Owens beats Cena. Cena tries to get Owens to shake his hand and Owens disrespects/beats him up after the match.
Cena gets mad, still acknowledging that Owens beat him CLEAN and demands a rematch because of this, Owens says no, then Cena tries reverse psychology by saying "Hey, you beat me once, can you do it again?" Owens gives in, saying he'll end Cena once and for all.
The WWE made millions off this formula and not tried to murr the waters with splitting the crowd down the middle or making Cena some bitter old guy wanting those kids off his lawn or burying the product they hype the network for since most people don't watch the older stuff as much.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jun 10, 2015 20:28:32 GMT -5
What is it with WWE wanting to mess with a formula that has worked for the sake of trying to do something they either don't mean or a shallow attempt to make money from people that they are probably already making the money from. Owens is a heel. Cena is the face. Owens hates Cena and what he stands for, Cena thinks Owens is a dick because of how he treats people including his best friend Zayn. Owens beats Cena. Cena tries to get Owens to shake his hand and Owens disrespects/beats him up after the match. Cena gets mad, still acknowledging that Owens beat him CLEAN and demands a rematch because of this, Owens says no, then Cena tries reverse psychology by saying "Hey, you beat me once, can you do it again?" Owens gives in, saying he'll end Cena once and for all. The WWE made millions off this formula and not tried to murr the waters with splitting the crowd down the middle or making Cena some bitter old guy wanting those kids off his lawn or burying the product they hype the network for since most people don't watch the older stuff as much. Exactly. John shouldn't have even brought up NXT initially, his main concern should be all the sadistic things Owens did to Zayn and other wrestlers. The rest of the NXT roster should be wondering if they really want someone like Kevin Owens representing them.
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