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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Jun 13, 2015 22:21:03 GMT -5
I wonder if they feel like being annoying and generally boring as hell = reality era heel heat. In a way, I guess so; people are so apt to cheer dynamic heels that a lot of guys figure "keep things dull, then they'll boo you". I always had a problem with that line of thinking, as there have been plenty of heels in even smarky indy companies who've managed to get legitimate heel heat without giving up being dynamic in the ring. Heels probably shouldn't be doing too many high spots or whatever, but yeah, the whole "chinlocks and nothing else!" mindset for modern heels is just laziness. Booyah. Hell, same applies for the WWE. Look at Seth Rollins: The dude is awesome in the ring, but he's detestable as hell, without being boring. Ever since he turned on the SHIELD, he's been on the other end of - unprompted, mind you - "you sold out" chants. Jericho was hated as a heel, as was the Nexus. It's possible to write an uncool heel (meaning one that gets boos and not cheers) without making them duller than dishwater, they just either don't know how to or won't.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jun 13, 2015 22:30:48 GMT -5
The problems with the Authority are well documented. Everything from no one ever truly getting one up on them, to HHH and Steph just not being entertaining heel boss characters since both are too insecure to be humiliated. The biggest issue to me however is that nobody in the actual group itself gets over by being in the group! What sort of major heel faction kills the heat of all who join it? Orton as Authority Chosen One wrecked his career something fierce and he's still trying to recover from it. Rollins started hot after turning heel (Orton could be the whipping boy while Seth waited in the wings) but once he got the title now he's become the whipping boy and seems like he'd rather be anywhere else. I don't get the feeling that the big players in the Authority even like being in the Authority. Say what you will about the Horsemen or NWO, but at least the guys in it were having a blast doing the gimmick.
For the longest time I have felt that WWE was a promotion told from the heel point of view, which is a terrible structural problem. What is the overarching story right now? To me it's the idea that Seth Rollins is a failure to The Authority and needs to be replaced with someone else. The real problem is that this storyline is a Catch 22 for USA. It's so well documented that heel bosses have to be around that casual viewers tune out when they aren't around since nothing of note in storylines will happen unless they're around. That's why ratings tend to tank a bit when The Authority aren't on TV. Nothing of use happens. That was the ultimate irony of the time last year when they were banned. It wasn't that Raw was this chaotic war zone where anything goes and random things happened due to The Authority not being around. It was that the show structurally didn't change a single bit other than Rollins whining about needing The Authority back. Otherwise what really changed? Nothing.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Jun 13, 2015 22:51:58 GMT -5
In a way, I guess so; people are so apt to cheer dynamic heels that a lot of guys figure "keep things dull, then they'll boo you". I always had a problem with that line of thinking, as there have been plenty of heels in even smarky indy companies who've managed to get legitimate heel heat without giving up being dynamic in the ring. Heels probably shouldn't be doing too many high spots or whatever, but yeah, the whole "chinlocks and nothing else!" mindset for modern heels is just laziness. Booyah. Hell, same applies for the WWE. Look at Seth Rollins: The dude is awesome in the ring, but he's detestable as hell, without being boring. Ever since he turned on the SHIELD, he's been on the other end of - unprompted, mind you - "you sold out" chants. Jericho was hated as a heel, as was the Nexus. It's possible to write an uncool heel (meaning one that gets boos and not cheers) without making them duller than dishwater, they just either don't know how to or won't. As much as we bag on Bray Wyatt, he was getting a lot of heel heat way back, particularly during the angle with Bryan.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 13, 2015 23:09:19 GMT -5
The problems with the Authority are well documented. Everything from no one ever truly getting one up on them, to HHH and Steph just not being entertaining heel boss characters since both are too insecure to be humiliated. The biggest issue to me however is that nobody in the actual group itself gets over by being in the group! What sort of major heel faction kills the heat of all who join it? Orton as Authority Chosen One wrecked his career something fierce and he's still trying to recover from it. Rollins started hot after turning heel (Orton could be the whipping boy while Seth waited in the wings) but once he got the title now he's become the whipping boy and seems like he'd rather be anywhere else. I don't get the feeling that the big players in the Authority even like being in the Authority. Say what you will about the Horsemen or NWO, but at least the guys in it were having a blast doing the gimmick. For the longest time I have felt that WWE was a promotion told from the heel point of view, which is a terrible structural problem. What is the overarching story right now? To me it's the idea that Seth Rollins is a failure to The Authority and needs to be replaced with someone else. The real problem is that this storyline is a Catch 22 for USA. It's so well documented that heel bosses have to be around that casual viewers tune out when they aren't around since nothing of note in storylines will happen unless they're around. That's why ratings tend to tank a bit when The Authority aren't on TV. Nothing of use happens. That was the ultimate irony of the time last year when they were banned. It wasn't that Raw was this chaotic war zone where anything goes and random things happened due to The Authority not being around. It was that the show structurally didn't change a single bit other than Rollins whining about needing The Authority back. Otherwise what really changed? Nothing. They've clipped Seth wings and it hurt him. As I said before the curb stomp getting banned put him in a little disadvantage because his move set was so well developed around that move. He needs to go back to the detestable Seth like when he made John Cena bring the authority and then said he was going to "kill" Edge after. I understand they want the Authority champ to be all stuck up but Orton should of been uncontrollable for Authority to handle and Seth should be so above them that he feels he doesn't need the authority anymore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 23:15:35 GMT -5
I'm still a fan of them for now (and was a fan from the start), but they're fiercely running it into the ground real fast.
They are headed towards stagnation.
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Unocal 76
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Providing The Finest Oil
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Post by Unocal 76 on Jun 14, 2015 3:12:41 GMT -5
To put this in perspective, remember that RAW in the Skydome the night before the Valentine's Day Massacre with that famous image of Vince/Austin yelling at each other?
Austin had gone through a Corporate Gauntlet and hit 4 stunners on the rest of the crew.
Vince got a rare moment of comeuppance on Stone Cold, but it did not make Austin look weak IMO
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jun 14, 2015 3:29:31 GMT -5
To put this in perspective, remember that RAW in the Skydome the night before the Valentine's Day Massacre with that famous image of Vince/Austin yelling at each other? Austin had gone through a Corporate Gauntlet and hit 4 stunners on the rest of the crew. Vince got a rare moment of comeuppance on Stone Cold, but it did not make Austin look weak IMO Yet on the flip side Daniel Bryan gets murdered 6-on-1 by The Authority every show for like three weeks, often after a grueling match, and apparently that DOES make him look weak. I mean I can understand people saying it was repetitive, because it was, but was it making him look weak? Nah. This is the issue that babyfaces have had in the Cena age. He's set such an unrealistic standard of "overcoming odds" that when the logical thing happens and the babyface falls to the odds, like what happened with Bryan back then, many come to the conclusion that the babyface is being made to look weak.
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Post by The Legend of Groose on Jun 14, 2015 3:30:21 GMT -5
When the faces win, it doesn't matter because they just void it or there's no reciprocation for The Authority losing. They have nothing to lose and the faces have nothing to gain, so why cheer and get behind something that's pointless? What made Vince great was he was fine being the butt end of jokes and being made fun of, and it was entertaining. Each RAW turned into "What's Austin going to do with Vince this week to screw with him?" With Trips and Steph, it's a no fun zone and half hour promos. So much has been sacrificed for this stable and for what? SummerSlam will be TWO YEARS of the Authority. Did the NWO even last that long? WWE can talk about how WCW was nothing but the NWO angles and never looked at home grown talent like DDP and Jericho. However, The Authority is just as bad if not even worse.
I'm near the point that if they are still around after SummerSlam, I'm not watching RAW anymore and just sticking to PPVs until they are gone. They really are the Aces & Eights of WWE, or as I call them "The Aces and Hs".
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jun 14, 2015 3:31:40 GMT -5
To put this in perspective, remember that RAW in the Skydome the night before the Valentine's Day Massacre with that famous image of Vince/Austin yelling at each other? Austin had gone through a Corporate Gauntlet and hit 4 stunners on the rest of the crew. Vince got a rare moment of comeuppance on Stone Cold, but it did not make Austin look weak IMO Yet on the flip side Daniel Bryan gets murdered 6-on-1 by The Authority every show for like three weeks, often after a grueling match, and apparently that DOES make him look weak. I mean I can understand people saying it was repetitive, because it was, but was it making him look weak? Nah. This is the issue that babyfaces have had in the Cena age. He's set such an unrealistic standard of "overcoming odds" that when the logical thing happens and the babyface falls to the odds, like what happened with Bryan back then, many come to the conclusion that the babyface is being made to look weak. Because if WWE were fully behind Bryan, they would've given him the "Superman booking" just like Cena.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jun 14, 2015 4:11:56 GMT -5
Yet on the flip side Daniel Bryan gets murdered 6-on-1 by The Authority every show for like three weeks, often after a grueling match, and apparently that DOES make him look weak. I mean I can understand people saying it was repetitive, because it was, but was it making him look weak? Nah. This is the issue that babyfaces have had in the Cena age. He's set such an unrealistic standard of "overcoming odds" that when the logical thing happens and the babyface falls to the odds, like what happened with Bryan back then, many come to the conclusion that the babyface is being made to look weak. Because if WWE were fully behind Bryan, they would've given him the "Superman booking" just like Cena. Honestly, I'm kinda glad Bryan DIDN'T get Superman booking, or at least WWE's idea of it. Usually that leads to resentment in some way, be it through promos becoming more comedy-oriented or beating the next rising star or something like that. Some parts could have been a bit better, like getting one up on The Authority more often or getting the WM title shot by winning the Rumble and not by an audible call in March, but I was mostly satisfied with how things went. He still had craploads of great matches, but took enough lumps to make his opponents look good too.
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Post by ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul on Jun 14, 2015 4:14:44 GMT -5
Inspired by the Daniel Bryan/Triple H "Monster" promo and my recently watching the St. Valentine's Day Massacre PPV. I think we can all agree that The Authority has rapidly become one of the worst things about WWE TV, if not thee worst thing about WWE TV. They're stale, they're repetitive, and they're just a chore to watch in general. The weird thing is, it wasn't always that way; if Daniel Bryan vs. The Authority was an example of WWE at it's best, the underdog facing and overcoming insurmountable odds, The Authority vs. the World has come to encompass the worst of WWE, the stale corrupt authority figure versus the one-dimensional babyface leading to repetitive matches with obvious outcomes. The obvious problem is that The Authority is treated as this undefeatable juggernaut that never looks weak, but I think that only highlights the biggest issue: The Authority is just a f***ing lame group. When you look at St. Valentine's Day Massacre, when Mr. McMahon promises Steve Austin that no members of The Corporation will interfere, it means Austin can give Vince the ass-kicking he needs and deserves without having to worry about the likes of The Rock, Ken Shamrock, Kane (when he was something other than a bad joke), and The Bossman. At Over the Limit, Randy Orton's stipulation barring The Authority from ringside barred, what, a corporate monster who hasn't really been a monster in about five years and two retired cruiserweights that are about a head shorter than the champion they're supposed to be protecting? On the RAW after Triple H screwed Daniel Bryan, Bryan had to go through the full might of The Shield to even get into the ring. This past Monday on RAW, Seth Rollins as the HEEL champion, was the one who had to overcome the odds. The Authority has managed to be unbeatable while also being completely unimpressive. They're not intimidating, they're just a nuisance, like a mosquito in the room or genital warts.GENITAL WARTS RULE!!! One day your whole family is going down, Gentital Warts. I promise you.
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Ben Wyatt
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I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jun 14, 2015 5:41:18 GMT -5
my problem is it's a story line that's been going on for close to 2 years and has gone no where. Yeah. There's been no movement at all. Know what else is stupid? You'd think at some point in the last 2 years there would be a face authority figure to counter the Authority
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The Unconquered Sun
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Lord of Storms and Kittens!
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Post by The Unconquered Sun on Jun 14, 2015 5:58:29 GMT -5
and there's another thing that's been bugging me about this story line. there hasn't been a "holy shit!" moment yet. a moment that fans still talk about years later. a game changer. when it was Vince doing this routine we got "It was me Austin! It was Me all along!" what have we gotten with HHH & Stephaine, "9.99"? that's about it.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jun 14, 2015 6:55:03 GMT -5
The Corporation were cowards. The Authority are invincible. That's why the Authority doesn't work.
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Jun 14, 2015 7:05:29 GMT -5
Inspired by the Daniel Bryan/Triple H "Monster" promo and my recently watching the St. Valentine's Day Massacre PPV. I think we can all agree that The Authority has rapidly become one of the worst things about WWE TV, if not thee worst thing about WWE TV. They're stale, they're repetitive, and they're just a chore to watch in general. The weird thing is, it wasn't always that way; if Daniel Bryan vs. The Authority was an example of WWE at it's best, the underdog facing and overcoming insurmountable odds, The Authority vs. the World has come to encompass the worst of WWE, the stale corrupt authority figure versus the one-dimensional babyface leading to repetitive matches with obvious outcomes. The obvious problem is that The Authority is treated as this undefeatable juggernaut that never looks weak, but I think that only highlights the biggest issue: The Authority is just a f***ing lame group. When you look at St. Valentine's Day Massacre, when Mr. McMahon promises Steve Austin that no members of The Corporation will interfere, it means Austin can give Vince the ass-kicking he needs and deserves without having to worry about the likes of The Rock, Ken Shamrock, Kane (when he was something other than a bad joke), and The Bossman. At Over the Limit, Randy Orton's stipulation barring The Authority from ringside barred, what, a corporate monster who hasn't really been a monster in about five years and two retired cruiserweights that are about a head shorter than the champion they're supposed to be protecting? On the RAW after Triple H screwed Daniel Bryan, Bryan had to go through the full might of The Shield to even get into the ring. This past Monday on RAW, Seth Rollins as the HEEL champion, was the one who had to overcome the odds. The Authority has managed to be unbeatable while also being completely unimpressive. They're not intimidating, they're just a nuisance, like a mosquito in the room or genital warts.GENITAL WARTS RULE!!! Genital warts do not rule. They're painful and embarrassing.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Jun 14, 2015 9:48:49 GMT -5
Can't recall who drew the comparison here recently, but, wait for it, The Authority has really become WWE's answer to the Aces and Eights (who's asking the question, I'd like to know). Like Aces, The Authority started off relatively intriguing, with this staunch, almost Empire/Vader air to it. Yes, it came at the expense of making every babyface on the roster look like a goof, but there was hope.
Now, nearly two years later, like mentioned, they're just a prick in the side of the show. In kayfabe, let's look at what they've done.
1. Derailed the 'Yes' movement.
2. Blew John Cena, the biggest star of the last 10 years, out of the main-event picture.
3. Disbanded The Shield.
Their comeuppance, however brief, is always capped with the group coming back stronger than ever.
It doesn't help when they're made to show proper egg, like at 'Mania with Rock and Rousey, it's to outside talent. In kayfabe, and indeed in terms of producing credible stars, make the general roster, yanno the one that is relied on to draw the other 9 months outside 'Mania season, look like a sorry sack of inconsequential, replaceable cogs.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jun 14, 2015 9:58:50 GMT -5
I was willing to give it until WM this year, assuming Sting would be the guy to finally rid us of The Authority once and for all. And then no stip was announced to that match...and I have just given up. It's clear they have no idea where any of this is going. The troubling notion here is The Authority storyline has managed to make the world champion an insignificant jobber of a figure. Someone who can be tossed aside and replaced by whoever they want. Large sections of storyline also make no sense. Why did HHH hate Cena being champion again last year to the point where he put Lesnar against Cena? Then why let Lesnar not both to wrestle for months on end? Why was he not stripped of the title? Why does HHH put Roman Reigns (in theory an enemy) in all of these world title matches? Why is he in MITB?
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Jun 14, 2015 10:42:49 GMT -5
my problem is it's a story line that's been going on for close to 2 years and has gone no where. Yeah. There's been no movement at all. Know what else is stupid? You'd think at some point in the last 2 years there would be a face authority figure to counter the Authority Yep that's the big one. The Authority area all powerful so can do whatever they like with no chance of comeuppance. The moment they stripped Bryan of the title undermined everything, what's the point in investing in a face winning a title if The Authority can take it away from them for no good reason with no established hope of recourse. The stable coming back after being vanquished further rendered everything they do meaningless. People may have complained about the McMahons in the past but at least back in the attitude era they could cancel each other out to some degree with the likes of Foley, Flair and a few other commissioners on top of that. These days there's no balance. Plus Vince feuding with his own family is inherently more compelling than the petty squabbles we have now. I'd rather see Vince drugging Linda and conducting an affair with Trish motivating Shane to buy WCW than Seth and Kane bickering in an angle that never goes anywhere.
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Post by madness50 on Jun 14, 2015 11:09:40 GMT -5
I keep waiting for a babyface foil to the Authority to show up on TV but it seems to not be in the cards. It would at least be something different in this never ending storyline.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Jun 14, 2015 11:56:07 GMT -5
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