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Post by Milkman Norm on Jul 19, 2015 23:24:49 GMT -5
Because it would have turned him face and that's not what Vince wants. From the reactions tonight, Vince isn't getting his wish right now. In terms of fan reactions he hasn't for a long time.
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Post by OldDirtyBernie on Jul 19, 2015 23:29:52 GMT -5
Passed out would have been perfect, IMO. I just can't figure out why he tapped. Pass out, pin him, etc. But tap? I didn't even know he tapped, I thought he was clawing at Cena's hands but he apparently tapped... which made the ending even more ridiculous... ...and, in a sensible world (assuming this is how it came across on TV since I haven't gotten to watch yet) this would be a GREAT segue to another match and, god forbid I mention it, a Cena turn. Not even necessarily a full turn but run with the story being the Authority backing Cena realizing he's their cash cow. Of course this leads to Owens being the face of the feud but Owens can play both very well while walking the fine line in between.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 23:30:34 GMT -5
Because it would have turned him face and that's not what Vince wants. From the reactions tonight, Vince isn't getting his wish right now. In fairness though most of the heat was either "let's go Cena/Cena sucks" so it's hard to gauge whether this is Owens' heat or if they were just giving Cena shit tonight.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 23:38:09 GMT -5
Furthermore I really don't see eye to eye with people saying that Owens tapping out is a huge blunder either. No one ever thinks a MMA guy is a bitch for tapping out. In the last year we've had Jack Swagger and Cena pass out to Rusev, we've had Rusev pass out to Cena in the I Quit match. WWE needs to do away with their presentation that only losers tap out because that's so not the case. You tap out because a professional fighter put you in a hold you can't get out of and you're smart enough to know when you've been beat. In any contest someone has to win or lose, tapping out doesn't negate kicking out of a top rope AA.
I think a lot of you guys come off as simply that you really like Owens and are upset that he lost. This wasn't an enormous misstep, it's pretty much apples and oranges. Cena is over, he's WWE's cash cow and he's doing great with the US title. Kevin Owens is overachieving in terms of what anyone ever expected him to do in WWE in such short time, he went toe to toe with Cena, Cena never once joked him off like he did with Bray Wyatt. They never had Owens lose to Cena in spite of legitimately (kayfabe) knocking him unconscious at one point. Owens took Cena to a limit legitimately more than any heel aside from Brock Lesnar that's ever faced him. I just can't see the other side on this one from anything but a fan standpoint. They aren't losing money on this, Owens is in good shape still.
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Post by warriorthug4edge on Jul 20, 2015 0:00:55 GMT -5
Furthermore I really don't see eye to eye with people saying that Owens tapping out is a huge blunder either. No one ever thinks a MMA guy is a bitch for tapping out. In the last year we've had Jack Swagger and Cena pass out to Rusev, we've had Rusev pass out to Cena in the I Quit match. WWE needs to do away with their presentation that only losers tap out because that's so not the case. You tap out because a professional fighter put you in a hold you can't get out of and you're smart enough to know when you've been beat. In any contest someone has to win or lose, tapping out doesn't negate kicking out of a top rope AA. I think a lot of you guys come off as simply that you really like Owens and are upset that he lost. This wasn't an enormous misstep, it's pretty much apples and oranges. Cena is over, he's WWE's cash cow and he's doing great with the US title. Kevin Owens is overachieving in terms of what anyone ever expected him to do in WWE in such short time, he went toe to toe with Cena, Cena never once joked him off like he did with Bray Wyatt. They never had Owens lose to Cena in spite of legitimately (kayfabe) knocking him unconscious at one point. Owens took Cena to a limit legitimately more than any heel aside from Brock Lesnar that's ever faced him. I just can't see the other side on this one from anything but a fan standpoint. They aren't losing money on this, Owens is in good shape still. The problem is WWE DOES make their wrestlers who tap look like cowardly bitches. Hell, it's 90% of Cena's gimmick that he will "never give up," and will never tap. I don't know why they couldn't have gone for the DQ tonight with Rusev and Cesaro keeping Owens from winning the belt to set up a Fatal 4-way at SS. If you are dead-set against Cena eating a pin to lose the belt, that'd be the way to do it. Owens can't go anywhere but down from here, and I'm sorry, the "let's see how it plays out" stuff doesn't work with Cena.
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
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Post by Lancers on Jul 20, 2015 0:13:33 GMT -5
I wonder who the company plans on being the one who wins the U.S. Title.
Probably Big Show. I mean, it's been almost a year since Cole saw Cena being dominated unlike he's ever been before for the first time.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jul 20, 2015 0:18:39 GMT -5
I wonder who the company plans on being the one who wins the U.S. Title. Probably Big Show. I mean, it's been almost a year since Cole saw Cena being dominated unlike he's ever been before for the first time. I enquired today using my FAN press pass and received the following statement In all seriousness, I honestly doubt they have one. This is their book by the show program, just there to get Cena on and in a match that is meaningful. Remember the whole Owens saga was born because they suddenly had a new PPV and no one to face Cena. This was a cheap and easy out for a short time.
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SUPES
Don Corleone
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Post by SUPES on Jul 20, 2015 0:19:17 GMT -5
I'm hoping so.
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SUPES
Don Corleone
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Post by SUPES on Jul 20, 2015 0:25:21 GMT -5
I wonder who the company plans on being the one who wins the U.S. Title. Probably Big Show. I mean, it's been almost a year since Cole saw Cena being dominated unlike he's ever been before for the first time. Kane vs. Big Show to unify the midcard straps at WM32.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jul 20, 2015 0:25:50 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 0:42:32 GMT -5
Let's see...
The match was annoying. Move-kickout-move-kickout, ad nauseum.
However, when KO kicked out of the top rope AA, I thought we'd see something out of Cena. Like he hits the ref, or gets a weapon and goes apeshit on Owens. SOMETHING.
But no, STF, KO taps. Which was an absolute bullshit decision. He should've passed out in the hold, if anything. They had JUST got KO over as someone who will never say die, then they have him tap to a hold no one ever taps to anymore. Stupid stupid stupid.
No hyperbole.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 0:48:16 GMT -5
Furthermore I really don't see eye to eye with people saying that Owens tapping out is a huge blunder either. No one ever thinks a MMA guy is a bitch for tapping out. In the last year we've had Jack Swagger and Cena pass out to Rusev, we've had Rusev pass out to Cena in the I Quit match. WWE needs to do away with their presentation that only losers tap out because that's so not the case. You tap out because a professional fighter put you in a hold you can't get out of and you're smart enough to know when you've been beat. In any contest someone has to win or lose, tapping out doesn't negate kicking out of a top rope AA. I think a lot of you guys come off as simply that you really like Owens and are upset that he lost. This wasn't an enormous misstep, it's pretty much apples and oranges. Cena is over, he's WWE's cash cow and he's doing great with the US title. Kevin Owens is overachieving in terms of what anyone ever expected him to do in WWE in such short time, he went toe to toe with Cena, Cena never once joked him off like he did with Bray Wyatt. They never had Owens lose to Cena in spite of legitimately (kayfabe) knocking him unconscious at one point. Owens took Cena to a limit legitimately more than any heel aside from Brock Lesnar that's ever faced him. I just can't see the other side on this one from anything but a fan standpoint. They aren't losing money on this, Owens is in good shape still. My problem is that they undid what they just did seconds before. Kicking out of that AAA was sold like it meant something. Just like Cena losing to Rock, which they referenced. But, then he just makes him tap out, so why does it even matter? Again, just like Cena losing to Rock. He just goes about his business, beats him the next year, and everything's the same. What good does "Big Match John pulls through AGAIN!" do anyone?
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Jul 20, 2015 4:57:15 GMT -5
Yeah I have no idea where Owens goes from here.
Posted this in another thread but I'll expand- Cesaro is getting over, getting good reactions, and getting put over by the commentary. Have him win a shot at Cena at Summerslam, and put him over. IDEALLY put him over by having Cena tap to the Sharpshooter but that's never happening. Owens comes out, attacks Cesaro and we have ourselves a bitter feud between the 2 for the US Title because Cesaro accomplished what Owens couldn't. Rusev can join in too, because a) he wants the US Title back and potentially b) Cesaro also accomplished what HE couldn't, and made Cena tap out. Cesaro would be an INSTANT star if he got the submission, but would also be helped a lot with a regular clean win, Cena doesn't lose anything because he is perma-credible, and it gives Rusev & Owens a good programme, which should give Owens the title at some point and salvage him.
But we'll get Cena beating everyone again, Owens with a 4th match and losing, or a Triple Threat/Fatal Four Way where Cena doesn't take the pin so the title changing hands is meaningless.
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Post by kingbookermark on Jul 20, 2015 5:01:13 GMT -5
Yeah, sorry. No star was made here. Beating Cena in the first match and then losing every time after that does not a star make. wait & see.
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Post by kingbookermark on Jul 20, 2015 5:07:10 GMT -5
Let's see... The match was annoying. Move-kickout-move-kickout, ad nauseum. However, when KO kicked out of the top rope AA, I thought we'd see something out of Cena. Like he hits the ref, or gets a weapon and goes apeshit on Owens. SOMETHING. But no, STF, KO taps. Which was an absolute bullshit decision. He should've passed out in the hold, if anything. They had JUST got KO over as someone who will never say die, then they have him tap to a hold no one ever taps to anymore. Stupid stupid stupid. No hyperbole. That is the definition of hyperbole. Hyperbole means overstatement. Your overstatement of the facts as you see it which I disagree with you on & many do too, because you've got no crystal ball, you don't know what's next for Kevin Owens. So you need to quit while you're ahead. And take your hyperbole to the other threads where you can complain to your hearts content.
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Post by kingbookermark on Jul 20, 2015 5:12:21 GMT -5
Match was good, not their best by a long shot. The ending sucked a massive bag of nuts. The thread said Non-hyperbolic.
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Post by kingbookermark on Jul 20, 2015 5:15:51 GMT -5
Yeah, that really blew
Kicks out of a Top Rope AA but in the end taps like a pussy in the STF?
I would have rather he passed out. It also would have made more sense, but I just wish Owens hadn't been fed to Cena again period.
Cena is such a smug prick I just want to see him lose a feud and for ONCE be humbled Passed out would have been perfect, IMO. I just can't figure out why he tapped. Pass out, pin him, etc. But tap? Owen addresses that in an interview on WWE.com & it's really good & almost guarantees this feud continues.
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Post by kingbookermark on Jul 20, 2015 5:17:33 GMT -5
I didn't even know he tapped, I thought he was clawing at Cena's hands but he apparently tapped... which made the ending even more ridiculous... He's so pulling the "I DIDN'T TAP OUT, I WAS ONLY STRUGGLING TO ESCAPE, excuse excuse excuse" promo tomorrow night amongst the "YOU TAPPED OUT YOU TAPPED OUT" chants that will now follow him for months. Cena comes out and says "EXCUSES LOL KVN U CNT BEAT ME! PUT UR $ WHERE UR MOUTH IZ OR SHUT UP! UR CAREER 4 MY TITLE @ SUNMERFEST LOL!" Kevin then loses again. LOL! Owen addresses that in an interview on WWE.com & it's really good & almost guarantees this feud continues.
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Post by celtics543 on Jul 20, 2015 8:33:54 GMT -5
The problem with this is that you can't have a "blood" feud without blood and seeing as how it's apparently banned, I don't see that happening. I know people say it's unnecessary but tell me tonight wouldn't have been at least a little better if Owen's tapped out because he was in the STF and was wearing the crimson mask.
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Post by Urfarkendarf on Jul 20, 2015 8:41:09 GMT -5
No one will care about this loss if Owens gets his heat back and goes over at Summerslam or even via shenanigans during an open challenge. This loss doesn't hurt Owens in the long term AT ALL depending on the follow up. A loss at a B PPV in the way he lost doesn't mean shit. Now if they follow it up by keeping Owens off of TV or having him job out to another guy or something of that ilk than I will almost certainly think differently, but its farrrrr too soon to get too bent out of shape over a hard fought loss to Cena that was booked to go either way.
While I enjoyed the match, on a complete aside, finishing moves mean absolutely nothing anymore for the most part. That may be the biggest mistake that will come from this era and it was so glaring last night.
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