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Post by Starshine on Sept 18, 2015 23:41:08 GMT -5
Adam Cole's title run, and the general Kingdom stuff was what kind of turned me off ROH until more recently. I'm a pretty bummed they've gone back to that well again.
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Post by Bear Skin Rug on Sept 18, 2015 23:41:20 GMT -5
Record number of complaints in this thread spanning all 12 pages
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Post by Jacy Jayne Atomic Dog AMV on Sept 19, 2015 1:21:23 GMT -5
I enjoy the idea that they capped off a dramatic swerve-y heel turn with a triple super kick.
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comahan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,899
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Post by comahan on Sept 19, 2015 10:38:00 GMT -5
Nah he hit the Lethal Injection for the pin. By the way, I hate that move. Makes everyone involved look silly. What makes it so goddamn stupid is that he has to do the cartwheel EVERY SINGLE TIME. I love Lethal but what a ridiculous-looking (and not in the good way) finisher. It's the only part of Lethal I dislike right now, but unfortunately its a big thing. His pacing, timing, crispness, etc are all tremendous, and he carries himself like a star, but then all of his matches end with a silly handspring move. Jay pleeeeeeease. Also, I really dislike the payoff to the Kingdom swerve. Cole buddies back up with O'Reilly just to cost him a title match? Is that REALLY worth months of teasing a split between your faction? I feel like there had to have been countless other (and better) ways to set up Cole/O'Reilly if thats the direction theyre going. And many of those directions wouldn't involve damaging a highly anticipated PPV main event to make it happen.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Sept 19, 2015 12:49:25 GMT -5
As I am on my tablet I cannot get it but if can get on over to ROH's Facebook page, there is an awesome interview with Kyle O'Riley.
Now as for the swerve, the more I think about it, the more I hate it. Everything was planned from the start according to a Kingdom interview but how did Cole get it done? He didn't bother coming out sooner which means he knew he'd have that shot late in the match, that means he anticipated Truth getting involved and Nigel ejecting him, then he had to anticipate the ref going out, he then knew that Lethal would cheat drawing out Fish, that all that would bring out Dijak and then all that would give him his shot to screw over Kyle. Even at my most willing to believe that doesn't work. I guess you can retcon the Kingdom interview but why allow it in the first place? Ugh. Man, these next few weeks better be damned good.
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Post by lildude8218 on Sept 19, 2015 13:32:05 GMT -5
Adam Cole, real piece of shit [/Chuck Taylor]
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Sept 19, 2015 13:47:00 GMT -5
As I am on my tablet I cannot get it but if can get on over to ROH's Facebook page, there is an awesome interview with Kyle O'Riley. Now as for the swerve, the more I think about it, the more I hate it. Everything was planned from the start according to a Kingdom interview but how did Cole get it done? He didn't bother coming out sooner which means he knew he'd have that shot late in the match, that means he anticipated Truth getting involved and Nigel ejecting him, then he had to anticipate the ref going out, he then knew that Lethal would cheat drawing out Fish, that all that would bring out Dijak and then all that would give him his shot to screw over Kyle. Even at my most willing to believe that doesn't work. I guess you can retcon the Kingdom interview but why allow it in the first place? Ugh. Man, these next few weeks better be damned good. I haven't found an interview that says Adam Cole and the Kingdom planned all along to interfere in that specific way at that specific point after that specific turn of events. The "plan," I gather, was for Cole and the Kingdom to tease Adam being out of the group so he could infiltrate reDRagon and reunite with Kyle ... only to turn on him when he had his trust and he was, thus, vulnerable. I guess you can nitpick with the timing of when he comes out -- but people interfere in matches all the time without being there at the very start of the match, wait for things to unfold and make their move at an opportune time. I'm willing ot accept that Adam knew O'Reilly and Lethal wasn't going to be a 3-minute squash from knowing them both as competitors and having knowledge of their previous matches. Beyond that, it's just waiting for the opportunity to present itself.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Sept 19, 2015 14:07:00 GMT -5
As I am on my tablet I cannot get it but if can get on over to ROH's Facebook page, there is an awesome interview with Kyle O'Riley. Now as for the swerve, the more I think about it, the more I hate it. Everything was planned from the start according to a Kingdom interview but how did Cole get it done? He didn't bother coming out sooner which means he knew he'd have that shot late in the match, that means he anticipated Truth getting involved and Nigel ejecting him, then he had to anticipate the ref going out, he then knew that Lethal would cheat drawing out Fish, that all that would bring out Dijak and then all that would give him his shot to screw over Kyle. Even at my most willing to believe that doesn't work. I guess you can retcon the Kingdom interview but why allow it in the first place? Ugh. Man, these next few weeks better be damned good. I haven't found an interview that says Adam Cole and the Kingdom planned all along to interfere in that specific way at that specific point after that specific turn of events. The "plan," I gather, was for Cole and the Kingdom to tease Adam being out of the group so he could infiltrate reDRagon and reunite with Kyle ... only to turn on him when he had his trust and he was, thus, vulnerable. I guess you can nitpick with the timing of when he comes out -- but people interfere in matches all the time without being there at the very start of the match, wait for things to unfold and make their move at an opportune time. I'm willing ot accept that Adam knew O'Reilly and Lethal wasn't going to be a 3-minute squash from knowing them both as competitors and having knowledge of their previous matches. Beyond that, it's just waiting for the opportunity to present itself. In their post match interview the Kingdom states they are not done and have one more major thing planned, that being Cole costing Kyle. Okay, fine so far but there was so much that had to happen for Cole to make his move that it loses me. To me it was built on each and every part of that being a part of the plan which is what kills it. Obviously you think that match is going long and even expect Truth getting involved but it was a series of set ups to make the swerve happen after that loses me. If any one of those things does not happen the whole end of the match falls apart. I think they could have done that far simpler and better than that overbooked cluster we got. To me it went beyond "waiting for an opportunity" to following a script.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
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Fun while it lasted
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Sept 19, 2015 14:17:28 GMT -5
Thought it wasn't that bad an idea to be honest. I seem to have a harder time with face!Cole being believable as such.
I'm more upset with Lethal not getting any clean wins since beating Jay Briscoe.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2015 15:44:18 GMT -5
I haven't found an interview that says Adam Cole and the Kingdom planned all along to interfere in that specific way at that specific point after that specific turn of events. The "plan," I gather, was for Cole and the Kingdom to tease Adam being out of the group so he could infiltrate reDRagon and reunite with Kyle ... only to turn on him when he had his trust and he was, thus, vulnerable. I guess you can nitpick with the timing of when he comes out -- but people interfere in matches all the time without being there at the very start of the match, wait for things to unfold and make their move at an opportune time. I'm willing ot accept that Adam knew O'Reilly and Lethal wasn't going to be a 3-minute squash from knowing them both as competitors and having knowledge of their previous matches. Beyond that, it's just waiting for the opportunity to present itself. In their post match interview the Kingdom states they are not done and have one more major thing planned, that being Cole costing Kyle. Okay, fine so far but there was so much that had to happen for Cole to make his move that it loses me. To me it was built on each and every part of that being a part of the plan which is what kills it. Obviously you think that match is going long and even expect Truth getting involved but it was a series of set ups to make the swerve happen after that loses me. If any one of those things does not happen the whole end of the match falls apart. I think they could have done that far simpler and better than that overbooked cluster we got. To me it went beyond "waiting for an opportunity" to following a script. I didn't see the show so maybe there's context that I'm missing but what I can't wrap my head around is what the Kingdom even benefits from this. Taven and Bennett are already tag team champs so there's no reason to provoke reDRagon, I don't see this putting Adam Cole any higher on the card, maybe he made a deal with Lethal that if he saved him the match he'd get a shot of his own, but The Kingdom were teasing dissension before there was even a whisper of O'Reilly getting a title shot so it doesn't really make sense that all that effort was meant for this moment. Did they just have a hunch about this when Adam Cole was coming back? Do they hate Kyle O'Reilly that much? It's all very far fetched and unfortunately the whole arc Adam Cole is on right now doesn't feel very thought out.
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Chuck Conry
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Post by Chuck Conry on Sept 19, 2015 17:31:40 GMT -5
This is such a none-ROH thing here that ROH has done. It smells of something not panning out and having to come up with something new on the fly. I'm sure ROH has done crap jobs on something or another at some point, but this just seems to stink.
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
Hank Scorpio
note to all: he's a pants-less heathen
I Survived The Impact Spoilers 7/22/15-7/30/15
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on Sept 19, 2015 18:46:05 GMT -5
I think this swerve makes very little sense. That being said, Cole is much better heel & ROH has been so damn good this year that they've earned my trust enough that I'll take the wait and see approach on this one.
The rest of the show was good but not as great as I expected. The ANX return was a nice surprise, Fish/Lethal was very good, O'Reilly/Lethal was good until the end, everything else was good but not fantastic. Cannot wait for Styles/Lethal. I loved their match at the 12th Anniversary Show and Lethal has improved dramatically since, not to mention the stakes will be much higher. Overall a good, but disappointing show. Still, sadly, it will be far and away the best wrestling show this weekend.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
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Post by chazraps on Sept 19, 2015 20:00:03 GMT -5
MY THEORY:
The Kingdom is still going to turn on Cole, only now they've strung him along to turn on the one person who was there for him, and now Cole has alienated both O'Reilly and his soon-to-be former friends The Kingdom will want nothing to do with him. He'll be proven to be the most untrustworthy guy on the roster, giving us an alone Adam Cole, which (outside of maybe a valet) is how I feel the character at this particular juncture should be.
But Kingdom getting Cole to turn on reDRagon means he has nobody for reDRagon to even the odds against them, as well as nobody for Cole to reach out to in order to inevitably combat them.
Just given Delirious' storytelling the past 18 months or so, he's earned my trust enough to go along with him for something other than swerve-for-swerve-sake.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Sept 19, 2015 20:32:49 GMT -5
There is the O'Riley promo I mentioned earlier. Great stuff. Anyway, I don't hate the swerve, don't hate Cole going/staying heel, don't mind him still with the Kingdom, and don't mind a feud with him and O'Riley (and Fish and the rest I guess. reDRagon having to find a 3rd could be fun), I just don't like how they got there last night.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Sept 19, 2015 20:42:17 GMT -5
There is the O'Riley promo I mentioned earlier. Great stuff. Anyway, I don't hate the swerve, don't hate Cole going/staying heel, don't mind him still with the Kingdom, and don't mind a feud with him and O'Riley (and Fish and the rest I guess. reDRagon having to find a 3rd could be fun), I just don't like how they got there last night. I mean, I'm sure most people have noticed it but it's kinda ridiculous how much better O-Riley has gotten at promos in the last two years or so. That's some real fire there. It's not over-the-top and cartoonish but the conviction and hurt in his voice is there.
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Chuck Conry
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Post by Chuck Conry on Sept 19, 2015 23:08:39 GMT -5
MY THEORY: The Kingdom is still going to turn on Cole, only now they've strung him along to turn on the one person who was there for him, and now Cole has alienated both O'Reilly and his soon-to-be former friends The Kingdom will want nothing to do with him. He'll be proven to be the most untrustworthy guy on the roster, giving us an alone Adam Cole, which (outside of maybe a valet) is how I feel the character at this particular juncture should be. Does he then join The Embassy?
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Sept 20, 2015 3:49:05 GMT -5
I haven't found an interview that says Adam Cole and the Kingdom planned all along to interfere in that specific way at that specific point after that specific turn of events. The "plan," I gather, was for Cole and the Kingdom to tease Adam being out of the group so he could infiltrate reDRagon and reunite with Kyle ... only to turn on him when he had his trust and he was, thus, vulnerable. I guess you can nitpick with the timing of when he comes out -- but people interfere in matches all the time without being there at the very start of the match, wait for things to unfold and make their move at an opportune time. I'm willing ot accept that Adam knew O'Reilly and Lethal wasn't going to be a 3-minute squash from knowing them both as competitors and having knowledge of their previous matches. Beyond that, it's just waiting for the opportunity to present itself. In their post match interview the Kingdom states they are not done and have one more major thing planned, that being Cole costing Kyle. Okay, fine so far but there was so much that had to happen for Cole to make his move that it loses me. To me it was built on each and every part of that being a part of the plan which is what kills it. Obviously you think that match is going long and even expect Truth getting involved but it was a series of set ups to make the swerve happen after that loses me. If any one of those things does not happen the whole end of the match falls apart. I think they could have done that far simpler and better than that overbooked cluster we got. To me it went beyond "waiting for an opportunity" to following a script. Well maybe I'm not understanding, but I don't have any trouble believing that he made his move the way he did because he was taking the specific opportunity as it presented itself ... and that he would have still made his move but perhaps in a different way had the match gone differently.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Sept 21, 2015 9:06:14 GMT -5
It's so dumb. Half the time he yells out the name of the move before even doing the handspring part. It's like he's the movie villain who explains his plan to destroy the city to the hero, except it actually works out for him. God that drove me insane tonight. Every time! I honestly started wondering if he was calling the spot too loud or didn't trust Fish/O'Riley to conscious enough to know otherwise. Its a thing a lot of guys that came up together in the early 00s indy scene do for some reason. Aries and Styles do it all the time as well. And I bought the PPV the next day on demand, but haven't gotten to the main event yet. Seems like it was a good idea too, the match sounds like a shitshow.
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