Do bad angles heavily affect your feelings on a performer?

[Clash, Never a Meter Maid]

I said "performer" instead of wrestler because I guess I'm trying to articulate this: Is there a tipping point to where a fan can't fairly judge a wrestler's overall body of work or abilities because they've been involved in so many crappy angles (either if they looked too weak or too strong, doesn't matter), to where that's all the fan can associate with them?

For me, I guess I don't put that much overall value in the stories if a wrestler is engaging enough, so I've become fans of people despite their involvement in wrestlecrap.

Like the HHH/Booker T stuff heading into Wrestlemania XIX, terribly offensive and anticlimatic. But let's say you're meeting both of them in an autograph session. Is it really going yo be one of the first things on your mind? I know I'd be too starstruck to be still bothered by it in that moment, because holy shit it's wrestling legends Triple H and Booker T. Big Show's never been one of my top favorites, but if I catch him at like a gas station, he won't be the Local Man who roadblocks young talent, he's going to be the guy whose action figure I played with as a kid. Or Mickie James- you could debate on how the Piggie James angle with LayCool made her look or its real life implications, or how dumb her TNA character was to trust James Storm. But at the end of the day she's not Mickie the moron who got shoved onto oncoming train tracks, she's Mickie James the women's wrestling legend.

Now if it's a wrestler who's a known real life scumbag or a hateful person, of course I'll have reservations about meeting them, and there is the odd chance it could affect my overall attitude of them (looking at you, Toothless Aggression). But as far as like them politicking or being part of bad angles (either suffering or benefiting from it), nah. If a wrestler's enough of a legend, or if I'm a fan of them in the ring or on the mic or if they do good stuff for fans/charities, it'll often overshadow backstage stuff.

[carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army)]

If anything, I go the other way. I find myself respecting someone like the Big Show MORE because he's soldiered through so many awful storylines.

[paperbackhero]

Separating the art from the artist can be challenging.

[Brood Lone Wolf Funker]

If it someone like Davey Richards I would try and be as professional as possible around him but knowing stories about him it would be hard to do

[Amazing Kitsune]

I tend not to have strong feelings about people I've never met based on what I've heard about them. Great people can have terrible days and scummy people can put on a good front. You just never really know. Realizing this, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt almost all the time.

[gatordone]

Sept 27, 2015 12:27:23 GMT -5 carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) said:

If anything, I go the other way. I find myself respecting someone like the Big Show MORE because he's soldiered through so many awful storylines.

You can respect him for that but at the same time I wish he would just retire. I can't stomach watching him wrestle or do promos anymore.

[gatordone]

Sept 27, 2015 12:32:12 GMT -5 paperbackhero said:

Separating the art from the artist can be challenging.

Not really we all know that a fair number of famous people and star athletes are usually jerks when their in public. For athletes they tend to humble up a bit once they retire. In Hogans and Flair's case just retire. Nobody wants to see them anymore.

[ERON]

It's the same for me as with actors or musicians. I'm not going to judge someone on a personal level just because he or she did some crappy movies or put out some awful songs. Contrariwise, I'm not going to let someone's real life failures ruin my enjoyment of a good movie he or she acted in or a good song he or she recorded. For instance, if I meet Adam Sandler in person, I'm not going to tell him, "Screw you, dude. Your movies blow!" Nor am I going let my opinion of Motley Crue's music be tainted by things like Tommy's sex tape, Vince's drunk driving, or Nikki's drug abuse.

[Old Baby]

They are actors. Every actor makes a bad movie and has a bad performance, even the truly great ones. Now, if it were a matter of them being a scumbag in RL, that might be different. Still, I tend to avoid being judgmental about people who I don't really know aside from what I see on television and read in the media. Even in Benoit's case, when everyone was heaping coals on him and wishing he'd burn in hell, I felt sad for him because of the brain damage.

[Deleted]

Eh, I don't know these people so not really. I think the only times a celebrity's personal life has any bearing is when it comes to things they have publicly said. For example, I'm Jewish so now it's hard to like Mel Gibson even though I love Mad Max and Lethal Weapon. If I saw him in real life I just wouldn't acknowledge him, same with Hogan for saying he's a racist and stuff.

In general, celebrities just aren't a big deal to me though. I really don't give a shit what these people do or don't do in their personal lives until they tell me they hate me. But in terms of things like "people say CM Punk is a jerk" or whatever, I really don't care because I don't know the guy.

[Deleted]

I think it happened with CM Punk post-Mania 29 and currently with Dolph Ziggler. Just generally on the board, not really with me. I do tend to base my current favorites on how well they're being pushed at the moment, but I don't usually turn on guys because of bad creative.

In your example Clash, I'd be so psyched to meet someone like Big Show in person.

[paperbackhero]

Sept 27, 2015 13:30:43 GMT -5 gatordone said:

Sept 27, 2015 12:32:12 GMT -5 paperbackhero said:

Separating the art from the artist can be challenging.

Not really we all know that a fair number of famous people and star athletes are usually jerks when their in public. For athletes they tend to humble up a bit once they retire. In Hogans and Flair's case just retire. Nobody wants to see them anymore.

Completely disagree.

Flair is entertaining...most people on the roster are not.


John Lennon was an abusive husband and father..,hence, I cant get behind his art.

Art and artist.

Thanks for speaking on behalf of all the fans in the world.

Any more sage advice?

[gatordone]

You're not a fan of John Lennon because he was abusive to his wife and kids. From what I can recall Yoko wore the pants in that marriage. As for half of the world last I checked the Beatles have a huge following to this day. As for Flair making an ass of yourself on television and in public at the age of 60 is not entertaining it's pathetic.

[lws]

it feels like a few subjects came up in this topic. i will address the OP, but since my understanding of the topic title was more in line with the conversation that has sprung up, i will also be addressing those other issues. since you used the word "performer," i'm going to use "entertainer," since it was more in line with what i thought you meant.

on if an entertainer makes BAD entertainment, will i still respect them: only if they made as much good entertainment. which isn't to say i would DISRESPECT them if i met them in public, but i would ignore them/not care. if i saw the big show in person would i think new years baby? no, i'd think vague cool wrestler. maybe i'd smile and wave, but i don't really care. if i saw a wrestler i really do like, such as raven. would i think raven did a whole bunch of weird shit in his career, like being friends with the insane clown posse and vampiro? no, i'd think the tommy dreamer stuff was cool, so high five. but if the only thing they do is terrible entertainment, i'm not going to give them respect for sticking through it and making other people happy. they never did it for me. what do i care?

on if an entertainer is a bad person: it depends on how heavily i believe the stories of them being a bad person, and what i think that means about them. bill cosby is a rapist and i can't even think about his voice without getting upset. chris benoit and jimmy snuka are murderers, and i don't understand how anyone can support them knowing that. michael jackson was a very confused, hurt man-child, who did some very weird things with children, but there is no actual evidence he actually hurt them, definitely not intentionally or knowingly. woody allen is a creepy weirdo, but he did not molest any children, and the real "bad person" in that story is mia farrow, which is unfortunate because it comes off as woman hating and victim blaming, but sometimes people do cry wolf. i use all of these specific examples because i think its hard to say with a simple yes or no. but also, its usually a very strong yes, just for complicated and in-depth reasons.

and finally, on the subject of john lennon: he hit both yoko and his first wife with his fists. whatever propaganda jann wenner has fed you about yoko breaking up the beatles is bullshit, but also irrelevant. john lennon hit women. he wrote a 100% serious song, called "run for your life," about how if his girlfriend cheats on him, he'll beat her to death. some people think this makes him kind of a shitty person, regardless of how good their music is. that's what the above poster was talking about.

[gatordone]

Sept 27, 2015 20:31:32 GMT -5 lws said:

it feels like a few subjects came up in this topic. i will address the OP, but since my understanding of the topic title was more in line with the conversation that has sprung up, i will also be addressing those other issues. since you used the word "performer," i'm going to use "entertainer," since it was more in line with what i thought you meant.

on if an entertainer makes BAD entertainment, will i still respect them: only if they made as much good entertainment. which isn't to say i would DISRESPECT them if i met them in public, but i would ignore them/not care. if i saw the big show in person would i think new years baby? no, i'd think vague cool wrestler. maybe i'd smile and wave, but i don't really care. if i saw a wrestler i really do like, such as raven. would i think raven did a whole bunch of weird shit in his career, like being friends with the insane clown posse and vampiro? no, i'd think the tommy dreamer stuff was cool, so high five. but if the only thing they do is terrible entertainment, i'm not going to give them respect for sticking through it and making other people happy. they never did it for me. what do i care?

on if an entertainer is a bad person: it depends on how heavily i believe the stories of them being a bad person, and what i think that means about them. bill cosby is a rapist and i can't even think about his voice without getting upset. chris benoit and jimmy snuka are murderers, and i don't understand how anyone can support them knowing that. michael jackson was a very confused, hurt man-child, who did some very weird things with children, but there is no actual evidence he actually hurt them, definitely not intentionally or knowingly. woody allen is a creepy weirdo, but he did not molest any children, and the real "bad person" in that story is mia farrow, which is unfortunate because it comes off as woman hating and victim blaming, but sometimes people do cry wolf. i use all of these specific examples because i think its hard to say with a simple yes or no. but also, its usually a very strong yes, just for complicated and in-depth reasons.

and finally, on the subject of john lennon: he hit both yoko and his first wife with his fists. whatever propaganda jann wenner has fed you about yoko breaking up the beatles is bullshit, but also irrelevant. john lennon hit women. he wrote a 100% serious song, called "run for your life," about how if his girlfriend cheats on him, he'll beat her to death. some people think this makes him kind of a shitty person, regardless of how good their music is. that's what the above poster was talking about.

Thanks for clarifying that. What I was trying to explain was that for most people they don't care about what kind of person you are as long as their not the victim. I was never a Beatles fan but have many peers that are and think I'm an idiot for not liking their music. But I judge them for the music not the behavior. His music made people happy even though those close to him were miserable. Roman Polanski drugged and raped a 13 year old girl but still won 3 Academy awards for the film the Pianist. We all grow up idolizing pro athletes as kids and some of us are lucky to meet them in person. I know some that have had great experiences and some that haven't but we still praise them on the field. I'm sure there are lots of people that youtube Snuka and Benoit matches and play Michale Jackson songs all day. I still see reruns of the Cosby show airing on T.V.

[ayumidah]

Depends on the guy but usually no, bad stories falls on the writers.

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

Storyline wise Kane makes it really hard for me ever watching him again. He was booked as a bitch for a year straight, before that he was involved in comedy matches, he will never be perceived as a threat again.

Indy wise, the way he portrays himself in social media, I wouldn't pay a nickel to watch Trent Baretta. It's just my opinion but I hate his tweets, I only perceive him as a jabroni, he's talented but he should be serious.

As far as their behavior outside of the ring, I'll never support Teddy Hart again.

[Ultimo Gallos]

Depends on what they have done. I got a few button issues. Masada hit one of those buttons so that is why when I had a chance to meet him this month I didn't.

[willywonka666]

Sept 27, 2015 20:31:32 GMT -5 lws said:

it feels like a few subjects came up in this topic. i will address the OP, but since my understanding of the topic title was more in line with the conversation that has sprung up, i will also be addressing those other issues. since you used the word "performer," i'm going to use "entertainer," since it was more in line with what i thought you meant.

on if an entertainer makes BAD entertainment, will i still respect them: only if they made as much good entertainment. which isn't to say i would DISRESPECT them if i met them in public, but i would ignore them/not care. if i saw the big show in person would i think new years baby? no, i'd think vague cool wrestler. maybe i'd smile and wave, but i don't really care. if i saw a wrestler i really do like, such as raven. would i think raven did a whole bunch of weird shit in his career, like being friends with the insane clown posse and vampiro? no, i'd think the tommy dreamer stuff was cool, so high five. but if the only thing they do is terrible entertainment, i'm not going to give them respect for sticking through it and making other people happy. they never did it for me. what do i care?

on if an entertainer is a bad person: it depends on how heavily i believe the stories of them being a bad person, and what i think that means about them. bill cosby is a rapist and i can't even think about his voice without getting upset. chris benoit and jimmy snuka are murderers, and i don't understand how anyone can support them knowing that. michael jackson was a very confused, hurt man-child, who did some very weird things with children, but there is no actual evidence he actually hurt them, definitely not intentionally or knowingly. woody allen is a creepy weirdo, but he did not molest any children, and the real "bad person" in that story is mia farrow, which is unfortunate because it comes off as woman hating and victim blaming, but sometimes people do cry wolf. i use all of these specific examples because i think its hard to say with a simple yes or no. but also, its usually a very strong yes, just for complicated and in-depth reasons.

and finally, on the subject of john lennon: he hit both yoko and his first wife with his fists. whatever propaganda jann wenner has fed you about yoko breaking up the beatles is bullshit, but also irrelevant. john lennon hit women. he wrote a 100% serious song, called "run for your life," about how if his girlfriend cheats on him, he'll beat her to death. some people think this makes him kind of a shitty person, regardless of how good their music is. that's what the above poster was talking about.

As far as "Run for your life" John considered it a throwaway song and the most evel line:"Well, I'd rather see you dead little girl, than to be with another man" came from an Elvis song

[A Platypus Rave]

Sept 28, 2015 14:37:35 GMT -5 willywonka666 said:

Sept 27, 2015 20:31:32 GMT -5 lws said:

it feels like a few subjects came up in this topic. i will address the OP, but since my understanding of the topic title was more in line with the conversation that has sprung up, i will also be addressing those other issues. since you used the word "performer," i'm going to use "entertainer," since it was more in line with what i thought you meant.

on if an entertainer makes BAD entertainment, will i still respect them: only if they made as much good entertainment. which isn't to say i would DISRESPECT them if i met them in public, but i would ignore them/not care. if i saw the big show in person would i think new years baby? no, i'd think vague cool wrestler. maybe i'd smile and wave, but i don't really care. if i saw a wrestler i really do like, such as raven. would i think raven did a whole bunch of weird shit in his career, like being friends with the insane clown posse and vampiro? no, i'd think the tommy dreamer stuff was cool, so high five. but if the only thing they do is terrible entertainment, i'm not going to give them respect for sticking through it and making other people happy. they never did it for me. what do i care?

on if an entertainer is a bad person: it depends on how heavily i believe the stories of them being a bad person, and what i think that means about them. bill cosby is a rapist and i can't even think about his voice without getting upset. chris benoit and jimmy snuka are murderers, and i don't understand how anyone can support them knowing that. michael jackson was a very confused, hurt man-child, who did some very weird things with children, but there is no actual evidence he actually hurt them, definitely not intentionally or knowingly. woody allen is a creepy weirdo, but he did not molest any children, and the real "bad person" in that story is mia farrow, which is unfortunate because it comes off as woman hating and victim blaming, but sometimes people do cry wolf. i use all of these specific examples because i think its hard to say with a simple yes or no. but also, its usually a very strong yes, just for complicated and in-depth reasons.

and finally, on the subject of john lennon: he hit both yoko and his first wife with his fists. whatever propaganda jann wenner has fed you about yoko breaking up the beatles is bullshit, but also irrelevant. john lennon hit women. he wrote a 100% serious song, called "run for your life," about how if his girlfriend cheats on him, he'll beat her to death. some people think this makes him kind of a shitty person, regardless of how good their music is. that's what the above poster was talking about.

As far as "Run for your life" John considered it a throwaway song and the most evel line:"Well, I'd rather see you dead little girl, than to be with another man" came from an Elvis song

But he did write ""I used to be cruel to my woman/I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved" in getting better...

So it's not like he's denied it