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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Oct 2, 2015 2:55:57 GMT -5
I've heard the term before, but I would like to know how they work specifically, I know some wrestlers post on the forum, I'd like to know if they're warranted for surviving and earning money.
People like Hogan and HBK get a bad rep because they refused to do jobs, but I think if I was in their place I would've done the same exact thing, you could get cripple or die on any given match, the promoters won't care if something happens to you, it's basically one versus the world.
Also how does one protect himself from getting buried? Maybe striking first? Putting together a group so you can control the promotion?
I would love to see an adaptation about that aspect of the wrestling business, in my opinion on "the wrestler", they showed Randy The Ram pretty much being friendly to the guys and the promoter, I don't know, the business is just more than at, it's seedier, there are situations that could've escalated in violence, like Chris Hero and Shane Storm in Chikara
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Oct 2, 2015 6:50:38 GMT -5
it's mostly "I'm a big star, people pay to see me and I'll pick up my ball and go home if I don't get my way" leveraging. sometimes it's "I'm friends with the booker/the booker has a man-crush on me/I let the booker wife-swap with me/I blew Bert Prentice" stuff.
pro wrestling can be comically seedy.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Oct 2, 2015 11:32:02 GMT -5
it's mostly "I'm a big star, people pay to see me and I'll pick up my ball and go home if I don't get my way" leveraging. sometimes it's "I'm friends with the booker/the booker has a man-crush on me/I let the booker wife-swap with me/I blew Bert Prentice" stuff. pro wrestling can be comically seedy. Yeah that's another interesting aspect, getting close to the promoter, but I think blowing Bert Prentice would be to much lol, he probably only likes "cowboys"
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,279
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Post by Woo on Oct 2, 2015 11:37:31 GMT -5
There's protecting your spot and then there's clinging to the spot like Gollum clings to his ring way longer than you deserve it. Hogan coming back at Mania 9 and beating the guy who beat Bret in seconds was clearly one of the biggest examples of backstage clout. Then he supposedly refused to drop the belt as planned to Bret and only wanted to do it to Yokozuna, but again only after a camera flash explosion. There's also the fact that his stupid match main evented Wrestlemania VIII rather than Savage's title match.
HBK not only clung to his spot but ruined the WWE careers of Vader, Bam Bam Bigelow, Dean Douglas, Adam Bomb, Jean Pierre Lafitte and many more. The fact that he was a spoilt brat who forefitted almost all of his titles during his first run rather than losing them including the infamous time when he gave up the WWF title because he "lost his smile" (i.e. didn't want to lose to Bret Hart at Wrestlemania) says it all.
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Post by Old Baby on Oct 2, 2015 11:49:54 GMT -5
Watch the "Kevin Sullivan & the End of WCW" shoot and he'll go one by one through all of the things he wanted to book, all the guys he wanted to push, and then explain why each and everyone one of these things didn't happen. (Hint: Hogan)
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Oct 2, 2015 11:58:22 GMT -5
Watch the "Kevin Sullivan & the End of WCW" shoot and he'll go one by one through all of the things he wanted to book, all the guys he wanted to push, and then explain why each and everyone one of these things didn't happen. (Hint: Hogan) Which shoot is that, because that sounds fascinating. I've always felt bad for Sullivan as a booker, because it feels like he takes an unreasonable amount of stick for a guy who probably had his hands tied between idiotic corporate edicts and prima donna stars with creative control.
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Post by Old Baby on Oct 2, 2015 12:04:11 GMT -5
Watch the "Kevin Sullivan & the End of WCW" shoot and he'll go one by one through all of the things he wanted to book, all the guys he wanted to push, and then explain why each and everyone one of these things didn't happen. (Hint: Hogan) Which shoot is that, because that sounds fascinating. I've always felt bad for Sullivan as a booker, because it feels like he takes an unreasonable amount of stick for a guy who probably had his hands tied between idiotic corporate edicts and prima donna stars with creative control. I agree. He had a great mind and others in the business have said as much. He was in an unenviable position. wrestlingrecaps.com/interviews/kevin-sullivan-and-the-end-of-wcw/
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 12:35:43 GMT -5
I'm sure that it happens in every sport/career and all that it really is is a star athlete/employee getting close to the owner/coach/promoter/whatever and using his/her influence to benefit himself and possibly his allies.
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
I could write a book about what you don't know!
Posts: 12,451
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Oct 2, 2015 14:38:18 GMT -5
Just like any other job where ther's a corporate ladder to climb; You talk shit about your co-workers/competitors behind their back and self-promote/suck up to the boss.
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Honeybear Lyder
ALF
It's called a title match, dammit! I'll fire your ass, dammit! Get me a snowcone, dammit!
Posts: 1,154
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Post by Honeybear Lyder on Oct 2, 2015 15:46:02 GMT -5
Also how does one protect himself from getting buried? Maybe striking first? Putting together a group so you can control the promotion? From personal experience, once you realize you're in the indy fed and not WWE or TNA and that everyone knows you lose because you're booked to lose, not because your opponent beat you in a real fight, you stop caring about pushes, titles, main event spots and such and remember you're only here to have fun (and maybe make some money). Once you realize that, you can even ask to put people over, because you don't care. This way, no one can bury you.
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NOwave
Don Corleone
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Post by NOwave on Oct 2, 2015 16:45:30 GMT -5
Another example is when the top guy leans on the booker to bring in his buddies, over someone else who might do better in that spot.
Examples: Hulk Hogan-How many times did he convince a promoter to take Brutus Beefcake, and even to elevate him to the Main Event, when there were clearly much better performers on hand?
Ric Flair-more than once Flair told a promoter to hire/not fire Arn Anderson, or he’d leave.
That kind of thing creates resentment among the other guys.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Oct 2, 2015 16:58:38 GMT -5
Another example is when the top guy leans on the booker to bring in his buddies, over someone else who might do better in that spot. Examples: Hulk Hogan-How many times did he convince a promoter to take Brutus Beefcake, and even to elevate him to the Main Event, when there were clearly much better performers on hand? Ric Flair-more than once Flair told a promoter to hire/not fire Arn Anderson, or he’d leave. That kind of thing creates resentment among the other guys. Hell Hulk brought all of his friends to WCW, but thankfully they didn't lasted that long.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Oct 2, 2015 18:31:12 GMT -5
it's mostly "I'm a big star, people pay to see me and I'll pick up my ball and go home if I don't get my way" leveraging. sometimes it's "I'm friends with the booker/the booker has a man-crush on me/I let the booker wife-swap with me/I blew Bert Prentice" stuff. pro wrestling can be comically seedy. Yeah that's another interesting aspect, getting close to the promoter, but I think blowing Bert Prentice would be to much lol, he probably only likes "cowboys" Only if they're from Colorado. Also how does one protect himself from getting buried? Maybe striking first? Putting together a group so you can control the promotion? From personal experience, once you realize you're in the indy fed and not WWE or TNA and that everyone knows you lose because you're booked to lose, not because your opponent beat you in a real fight, you stop caring about pushes, titles, main event spots and such and remember you're only here to have fun (and maybe make some money). Once you realize that, you can even ask to put people over, because you don't care. This way, no one can bury you. From personal experience, I've seen guys with four matches under their belt throw tantrums because they didn't want to job in front of a crowd of 25 people. "This is my hometown, man! I can't lose here!" "Hey $@head, ALL of us are from this hometown."
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Oct 2, 2015 20:20:10 GMT -5
Yeah that's another interesting aspect, getting close to the promoter, but I think blowing Bert Prentice would be to much lol, he probably only likes "cowboys" Only if they're from Colorado. From personal experience, once you realize you're in the indy fed and not WWE or TNA and that everyone knows you lose because you're booked to lose, not because your opponent beat you in a real fight, you stop caring about pushes, titles, main event spots and such and remember you're only here to have fun (and maybe make some money). Once you realize that, you can even ask to put people over, because you don't care. This way, no one can bury you. From personal experience, I've seen guys with four matches under their belt throw tantrums because they didn't want to job in front of a crowd of 25 people. "This is my hometown, man! I can't lose here!" "Hey $@head, ALL of us are from this hometown." I don't think I've laugh harder this month, I can picture the guys from Riot Control doing that.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,279
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Post by Woo on Oct 2, 2015 20:31:39 GMT -5
Another example is when the top guy leans on the booker to bring in his buddies, over someone else who might do better in that spot. Examples: Hulk Hogan-How many times did he convince a promoter to take Brutus Beefcake, and even to elevate him to the Main Event, when there were clearly much better performers on hand? Ric Flair-more than once Flair told a promoter to hire/not fire Arn Anderson, or he’d leave. That kind of thing creates resentment among the other guys. Hell Hulk brought all of his friends to WCW, but thankfully they didn't lasted that long. Hulk brought his guys to TNA too which made me stop watching. I was just reading fans reviews of Lucha Underground and one guy brought up the excellent point that there isn't any obvious politics at play and instead all the match winners are decided by the storylines as they should be. So refreshing.
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Post by somsta on Oct 2, 2015 20:32:43 GMT -5
Watch the "Kevin Sullivan & the End of WCW" shoot and he'll go one by one through all of the things he wanted to book, all the guys he wanted to push, and then explain why each and everyone one of these things didn't happen. (Hint: Hogan) Which shoot is that, because that sounds fascinating. I've always felt bad for Sullivan as a booker, because it feels like he takes an unreasonable amount of stick for a guy who probably had his hands tied between idiotic corporate edicts and prima donna stars with creative control. Sullivan also does a podcast on MLW radio where he goes over Nitro week to week beginning from the first episode and discusses the booking. It's pretty fascinating.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 20:49:24 GMT -5
At it's simplest form, I see it as having someone's ear backstage and the persuasive ability to work things in your favor. Even guys with no real leverage can be involved in politicking backstage. I think sticking up for your abilities and making your case have to be strong intangibles in pro wrestling.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Oct 2, 2015 21:10:34 GMT -5
Which shoot is that, because that sounds fascinating. I've always felt bad for Sullivan as a booker, because it feels like he takes an unreasonable amount of stick for a guy who probably had his hands tied between idiotic corporate edicts and prima donna stars with creative control. Sullivan also does a podcast on MLW radio where he goes over Nitro week to week beginning from the first episode and discusses the booking. It's pretty fascinating. Is that on iTunes? Because yeah, I am all over that.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 2, 2015 21:50:25 GMT -5
Backstage politics is one of those things that may be infuriating for a fan, but it's common sense for a wrestler who can do it. I as a viewer may get sick of Cena for example, but if I was Cena, I'd be politicking like crazy. Whatever kept me as #1 and brought me the most fame and money would be my goal. Then once I made enough money to live on for the rest of my life, I'd quit while my health was still intact, or scale back to a less hectic schedule. I certainly wouldn't be going out of my way to help anyone else, unless I benefitted from it in some way.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Oct 2, 2015 22:33:15 GMT -5
Backstage politics is one of those things that may be infuriating for a fan, but it's common sense for a wrestler who can do it. I as a viewer may get sick of Cena for example, but if I was Cena, I'd be politicking like crazy. Whatever kept me as #1 and brought me the most fame and money would be my goal. Then once I made enough money to live on for the rest of my life, I'd quit while my health was still intact, or scale back to a less hectic schedule. I certainly wouldn't be going out of my way to help anyone else, unless I benefitted from it in some way. I agree, also from hearing Punk's podcast, there's so many things that Vince demands from you that the top guys end up getting burned mentally. I don't think Hogan appreciated Vince's plan to phase him out in the90s when he could still go, also Cena can't be to happy from being relegated to the "midcard"
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