Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2015 8:55:22 GMT -5
It reminds me of how my friends and I were after we watched an Attitude Era Raw in junior high. We went to school the next day and that's what we mostly talked about. Overall fun. You're so immersed in it all you mostly talk about the positives.
|
|
|
Post by Texas Tornado on Oct 9, 2015 9:02:15 GMT -5
Without NXT I think a lot of our more chill members would have left because of how negative it can get after the main shows. I think a lot of people believe in wrestling again now because of NXT. This is how I feel about things. The last two events I've gone out of my way to attend were the NXT shows in Brooklyn and Houston. They were some of the most fun wrestling events I've ever been to and I didn't have to worry about shoddy and depressing main roster booking. It's a treat to go enjoy wrestling and then come back here and see that same reaction from people. It reminds me of why I loved being a wrestling fan in the first place. I don't think I'd have been able to stick around without NXT.
|
|
|
Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 9, 2015 9:17:50 GMT -5
I call it the NXT Takeover Euphoria. After every Takeover special, the overall mood of the board goes positive. From praising standout wrestlers, performances, and matches to declaring that show better than anything the main roster is doing. It lasts a couple of weeks with more folks tuning in to the weekly show to keep the buzz going. But soon they realize the tv show isn't full of bangers every time and start to nudge off. Then WWE announces another Takeover or someone big signs with NXT, the high starts to comeback. And it grows and grows the closer to we get to the next special. It's just one big cycle. With NXT holding more Takeovers and less turnover time, the euphoria is lasting longer.
The main roster don't have that newness like NXT does which hurts them. Cesaro haven't been on Raw and Smackdown for weeks. People assume he's being punished and pissed he is not tv. Versus NXT were talents cycle on and off tv regularly & little peep is made. Plus NXT is only a hour. Enough time for folks to watch before getting antsy. Raw is 3 and Smackdown is 2. By the time hour 2 is starting, must gave up and ready to gnaw off their arm to escape. NXT's roster depth isn't exposed in 1 hour. Make it 2 on a weekly basis, it will be. Now New Day has helped the board stop being as sour post Raw as it would be.
|
|
|
Post by misconduct was wrong on Oct 9, 2015 9:19:24 GMT -5
I wonder.... If worst(best?) case scenario happens and wwe really goes into freefall, do you guys think H would buy NXT and the contracts from Vince and run it independently? Zero chance. More likely the development system and most of the guys there would be gone ASAP since it's a money sink. I think part of it is that NXT's new folks we don't get as much time to get bored with, plus they're in school. We are more patient.WWE's got its own problems. Company f***s up a lot, sure, but not enough to make people give up. Just loudly protest they did, and yet they linger. To be fair, most I'd imagine are either just invested enough to where actual quitting is difficult, or they change their minds, but it doesn't really help an already irritable fanbase. Patience is one of the key things here. NXT gets an amount equally inverse to the amount WWE DOESN'T get, to the point where someone not being pushed RIGHT NOW in WWE is never going be pushed EVER. Any change that happens in WWE has to be INSTANT and WIDESPREAD, to the point of people being fired instead of just eased down the card (like with the "Divas Revolution"... How much of our fantasy booking involved just straight-up FIRING The Bella Twins, hm?). I get that WWE haven't earned the right to patience, but we have to be realistic here. Any major change that will happen will not happen instantly. I look at more in terms of air time when you speak of patience. A typical wwe week of tv is more than a month of NXT.
|
|
salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 13,960
|
Post by salz4life on Oct 9, 2015 11:26:03 GMT -5
I just finished TO and after watching the Bayley/Sasha in the Ironman match, I just can't understand why WWE cannot find time for meaningful women's wrestling on Raw with a 3 hour show. It's ridiculous. I loved that match and I love the women's wrestling on NXT.
|
|
saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
|
Post by saintpat on Oct 9, 2015 11:48:12 GMT -5
Wrestling fans aren't a negative group of people. Wrestling fans do not like to complain at all and when the product is good they do not. Wrestling fans are no different to fans of any other TV show. When it's good they are happy and talk about the show with friends, discuss itonline, create forums and websites dedicated to it. When it's bad they complain because they want the show to improve. People complained about TNA's mistakes and told them how to improve their product and they did not listen and are in dire straits as a result. The people complaining are the people who love the WWE the most. Rather than stop watching altogether and give up like most people have their loyalty and love of the company prevents them from doing so. The mistake the WWE have made is one of pride. They have laughed, insulted, sneered and belittled their fans for decades. Vince McMahon even created the Jamison character that was the Bushwackers manager as a joke to mock us for it. The WWE have acted like they were invincible, that they were too big to fall and have operated on the belief, despite all the evidence against it, that no matter how much they take their loyal fanbase for granted that they will still watch next week. NXT gives the fans what they want and in return they recieve nothing but praise from the fans. That's how wrestling, actually no that's how any company, should operate. One dynamic peculiar to wrestling forums in my experience is nowhere else do I see a lot of people on forums complaining and downing a product that they claim to no longer watch. I mean, how much validity can you put in, "Well, I stopped watching WWE in 2009, but this sucks ..." Yet there are a lot of these people around and I still cannot wrap my mind around it. I used to read and collect comic books. I don't do so anymore. Yet I don't go on comic forums and say, "I heard about the latest Batman storyline and even though I haven't so much as looked at the cover, let me tell you why I think it's stupid." To me this is so bizzare. If I quit watching something (or decide that some band I used to like isn't making good music anymore, etc.), I move on. A lot of wrestling fans, apparently, don't ... and they contribute in a major way to the overall negative tone to the discussion. In many cases it's "I quit watching and some other poster opines that Seth Rollins isn't being booked properly, and while I haven't seen it for myself it affirms my decision to stop watching." I guess I don't need as much affirmation.
|
|
Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,279
|
Post by Woo on Oct 9, 2015 12:04:59 GMT -5
Wrestling fans aren't a negative group of people. Wrestling fans do not like to complain at all and when the product is good they do not. Wrestling fans are no different to fans of any other TV show. When it's good they are happy and talk about the show with friends, discuss itonline, create forums and websites dedicated to it. When it's bad they complain because they want the show to improve. People complained about TNA's mistakes and told them how to improve their product and they did not listen and are in dire straits as a result. The people complaining are the people who love the WWE the most. Rather than stop watching altogether and give up like most people have their loyalty and love of the company prevents them from doing so. The mistake the WWE have made is one of pride. They have laughed, insulted, sneered and belittled their fans for decades. Vince McMahon even created the Jamison character that was the Bushwackers manager as a joke to mock us for it. The WWE have acted like they were invincible, that they were too big to fall and have operated on the belief, despite all the evidence against it, that no matter how much they take their loyal fanbase for granted that they will still watch next week. NXT gives the fans what they want and in return they recieve nothing but praise from the fans. That's how wrestling, actually no that's how any company, should operate. One dynamic peculiar to wrestling forums in my experience is nowhere else do I see a lot of people on forums complaining and downing a product that they claim to no longer watch. I mean, how much validity can you put in, "Well, I stopped watching WWE in 2009, but this sucks ..." Yet there are a lot of these people around and I still cannot wrap my mind around it. I used to read and collect comic books. I don't do so anymore. Yet I don't go on comic forums and say, "I heard about the latest Batman storyline and even though I haven't so much as looked at the cover, let me tell you why I think it's stupid." To me this is so bizzare. If I quit watching something (or decide that some band I used to like isn't making good music anymore, etc.), I move on. A lot of wrestling fans, apparently, don't ... and they contribute in a major way to the overall negative tone to the discussion. In many cases it's "I quit watching and some other poster opines that Seth Rollins isn't being booked properly, and while I haven't seen it for myself it affirms my decision to stop watching." I guess I don't need as much affirmation. Well I don't watch the WWE at all yet I still visit this forum. I do watch Lucha Underground and Shimmer still so I like to post about them as often as possible and I also like the Rest of Wrestling section too to discuss old school wrestling. But I mostly come here for Wrestling news. PWI and to a lesser extent PWT are so full of adverts that I find both sites unbearable and since I'm visiting this site anyway to discuss other wrestling promotions it's easier to get that all from here. But the thing is that none of us wanted to stop watching the WWE. We just want them to do better and improve their product. They are loaded with so much talent that we could easily have a boom period again if they would stop shooting themselves in the foot. Also most wrestling fans will endure awful television for weeks just for the one moment of gold like a CM Punk pipebomb or Daniel Bryan in the steel cage.
|
|
saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
|
Post by saintpat on Oct 9, 2015 12:07:52 GMT -5
One dynamic peculiar to wrestling forums in my experience is nowhere else do I see a lot of people on forums complaining and downing a product that they claim to no longer watch. I mean, how much validity can you put in, "Well, I stopped watching WWE in 2009, but this sucks ..." Yet there are a lot of these people around and I still cannot wrap my mind around it. I used to read and collect comic books. I don't do so anymore. Yet I don't go on comic forums and say, "I heard about the latest Batman storyline and even though I haven't so much as looked at the cover, let me tell you why I think it's stupid." To me this is so bizzare. If I quit watching something (or decide that some band I used to like isn't making good music anymore, etc.), I move on. A lot of wrestling fans, apparently, don't ... and they contribute in a major way to the overall negative tone to the discussion. In many cases it's "I quit watching and some other poster opines that Seth Rollins isn't being booked properly, and while I haven't seen it for myself it affirms my decision to stop watching." I guess I don't need as much affirmation. Well I don't watch the WWE at all yet I still visit this forum. I do watch Lucha Underground and Shimmer still so I like to post about them as often as possible and I also like the Rest of Wrestling section too to discuss old school wrestling. But I mostly come here for Wrestling news. PWI and to a lesser extent PWT are so full of adverts that I find both sites unbearable and since I'm visiting this site anyway to discuss other wrestling promotions it's easier to get that all from here. But the thing is that none of us wanted to stop watching the WWE. We just want them to do better and improve their product. They are loaded with so much talent that we could easily have a boom period again if they would stop shooting themselves in the foot. Also most wrestling fans will endure awful television for weeks just for the one moment of gold like a CM Punk pipebomb or Daniel Bryan in the steel cage. And all of that is fine. But I guess I will never get the "I haven't watched since 2009 and I think the way they are handling the Wyatts sucks" type posts, of which there are many.
|
|
Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,279
|
Post by Woo on Oct 9, 2015 12:11:04 GMT -5
Well I don't watch the WWE at all yet I still visit this forum. I do watch Lucha Underground and Shimmer still so I like to post about them as often as possible and I also like the Rest of Wrestling section too to discuss old school wrestling. But I mostly come here for Wrestling news. PWI and to a lesser extent PWT are so full of adverts that I find both sites unbearable and since I'm visiting this site anyway to discuss other wrestling promotions it's easier to get that all from here. But the thing is that none of us wanted to stop watching the WWE. We just want them to do better and improve their product. They are loaded with so much talent that we could easily have a boom period again if they would stop shooting themselves in the foot. Also most wrestling fans will endure awful television for weeks just for the one moment of gold like a CM Punk pipebomb or Daniel Bryan in the steel cage. And all of that is fine. But I guess I will never get the "I haven't watched since 2009 and I think the way they are handling the Wyatts sucks" type posts, of which there are many. True. But there are things you can tell without watching the product. If in five years I hear about a hot new prospect who everybody is raving about that has just lost to the Big Show I will instantly know that it most likely sucked. Or reading that a world title match at Wrestlemania lasted just 18 seconds. You don't need to watch to know that was silly.
|
|
saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
|
Post by saintpat on Oct 9, 2015 12:22:54 GMT -5
And all of that is fine. But I guess I will never get the "I haven't watched since 2009 and I think the way they are handling the Wyatts sucks" type posts, of which there are many. True. But there are things you can tell without watching the product. If in five years I hear about a hot new prospect who everybody is raving about that has just lost to the Big Show I will instantly know that it most likely sucked. Or reading that a world title match at Wrestlemania lasted just 18 seconds. You don't need to watch to know that was silly. See, that's an example of where I disagree (and I know a lot of people who do watch wouldn't agree with what I'm about to say): I think everything good that happened with Bryan traces back to 18 seconds. That led to Team Hell No, where he showed, for the first time in my eyes, that he could develop a character and project a personality. That doesn't happen, there's no WM30 moment because he never gets out of the cellar. It's context: I tell you a guy got beat in 18 seconds, it sounds awful, but watch where it goes from there and then you get context. Remember not so long ago when New Day debuted and people were saying how horrible it was, that they should have been the New New Nation, etc.? But because of what many people thought was terrible when they debuted, they evolved into the hottest act on the roster. But if I typed out a description of them, I doubt it would sound as good as it actually is. Hey, everybody has a right to watch or not watch -- and the right to comment on whether something is good even if they haven't seen it -- but if someone reviews the latest Avengers movie and confesses that they are doing so from a plot outline on Wikipedia and that they haven't seen the movie, well ...
|
|
Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,279
|
Post by Woo on Oct 9, 2015 12:27:37 GMT -5
True. But there are things you can tell without watching the product. If in five years I hear about a hot new prospect who everybody is raving about that has just lost to the Big Show I will instantly know that it most likely sucked. Or reading that a world title match at Wrestlemania lasted just 18 seconds. You don't need to watch to know that was silly. See, that's an example of where I disagree (and I know a lot of people who do watch wouldn't agree with what I'm about to say): I think everything good that happened with Bryan traces back to 18 seconds. That led to Team Hell No, where he showed, for the first time in my eyes, that he could develop a character and project a personality. That doesn't happen, there's no WM30 moment because he never gets out of the cellar. It's context: I tell you a guy got beat in 18 seconds, it sounds awful, but watch where it goes from there and then you get context. Remember not so long ago when New Day debuted and people were saying how horrible it was, that they should have been the New New Nation, etc.? But because of what many people thought was terrible when they debuted, they evolved into the hottest act on the roster. But I typed out a description of them, I doubt it would sound as good as it actually is. Hey, everybody has a right to watch or not watch -- and the right to comment on whether something is good even if they haven't seen it -- but if someone reviews the latest Avengers movie and confesses that they are doing so from a plot outline on Wikipedia and that they haven't seen the movie, well ... But both of them good things only happened because they were awful and the fans either decided to shout out about how awful Bryan was mistreated or tell the WWE that these guys are terrible babyfaces. Your example would be similar to saying that while Batman & Robin was bad, it's okay because Batman Begins then came from it.
|
|
|
Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Oct 9, 2015 12:30:17 GMT -5
Well, that's enough positive statements about wrestling for the day.
WWE deez nuts.
|
|
saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
|
Post by saintpat on Oct 9, 2015 12:36:52 GMT -5
See, that's an example of where I disagree (and I know a lot of people who do watch wouldn't agree with what I'm about to say): I think everything good that happened with Bryan traces back to 18 seconds. That led to Team Hell No, where he showed, for the first time in my eyes, that he could develop a character and project a personality. That doesn't happen, there's no WM30 moment because he never gets out of the cellar. It's context: I tell you a guy got beat in 18 seconds, it sounds awful, but watch where it goes from there and then you get context. Remember not so long ago when New Day debuted and people were saying how horrible it was, that they should have been the New New Nation, etc.? But because of what many people thought was terrible when they debuted, they evolved into the hottest act on the roster. But I typed out a description of them, I doubt it would sound as good as it actually is. Hey, everybody has a right to watch or not watch -- and the right to comment on whether something is good even if they haven't seen it -- but if someone reviews the latest Avengers movie and confesses that they are doing so from a plot outline on Wikipedia and that they haven't seen the movie, well ... But both of them good things only happened because they were awful and the fans either decided to shout out about how awful Bryan was mistreated or tell the WWE that these guys are terrible babyfaces. Your example would be similar to saying that while Batman & Robin was bad, it's okay because Batman Begins then came from it. I disagree. Team Hell No didn't happen because the WWE Universe demanded it after 18 seconds. But I feel like I've hijacked the thread. I've nothing more to offer on my tangent so I'll move along.
|
|
gr1990
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,485
|
Post by gr1990 on Oct 9, 2015 13:00:02 GMT -5
Helps that there's less opinion-dividing performers on NXT too. All the top names seem to be universally recognised to be good at what they do so no one gets too upset about who's getting pushed and who goes over. People seem to have even softened on the likes of Corbin and Dana Brooke since they've clearly put a lot of effort into improving, and as people have already said, people are more patient knowing how new to the biz some of the NXT talent is. If the rumoured meteoric rise of Eva Marie ever becomes a thing that could change though.
|
|
|
Post by sonofblaine on Oct 9, 2015 13:21:40 GMT -5
I was just thinking about how excited I get over NXT vs WWE the other day. I work nights so I watch my wrestling later. When I got home Thursday morning, the first thing I did was watch NXT Respect, and I hadn't even watched Raw yet. I just this morning watched Raw, and while Respect was watched on the edge of my seat, Raw was watched while doing dishes, or fast forwarding so I could hurry up and go to bed.
Sad.
|
|
Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,279
|
Post by Woo on Oct 9, 2015 13:24:36 GMT -5
But both of them good things only happened because they were awful and the fans either decided to shout out about how awful Bryan was mistreated or tell the WWE that these guys are terrible babyfaces. Your example would be similar to saying that while Batman & Robin was bad, it's okay because Batman Begins then came from it. I disagree. Team Hell No didn't happen because the WWE Universe demanded it after 18 seconds. But I feel like I've hijacked the thread. I've nothing more to offer on my tangent so I'll move along. I'll move on too after this, but I think the WWE lucked into almost everything with Bryan rather than having some kind of plan with him. It seemed like they were using Bryan as an attempt to make Sheamus a megastar and it failed massively.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Pigwell on Oct 9, 2015 13:31:25 GMT -5
Good lord you guys even argue politely while basking in that post NXT glow...
|
|
|
Post by idislikeeverything on Oct 9, 2015 13:54:14 GMT -5
Good lord you guys even argue politely while basking in that post NXT glow... My name after an NXT PPV is itolerateeverything
|
|
|
Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Oct 9, 2015 14:21:31 GMT -5
Nah, we're just fakin' it. Some guy proved it in another thread. We only like NXT because Vince doesn't have anything to do with it. It's a fact. Seriously?
|
|
Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
|
Post by Reflecto on Oct 9, 2015 15:38:09 GMT -5
NXT television builds to developing stars, and even if there's a few downer endings here and there, they put all their ducks in a row for Takeover to lead to a happy ending, and giving it to people at the point it becomes the most emotional so you feel like you followed the same journey as your heroes and are a part of it, to make you proud to be pro wrestling fans.
WWE television builds up their shows to the status quo and, even if there's a few happy endings here and there, they put all their ducks in a row to lead to a gutpunch ending, giving it to people at the point it becomes more clear WWE just hates us all, that we're fools for caring about this, and you should be ashamed to be a wrestling fan.
A world of difference.
|
|