Sicho100
Hank Scorpio
Easily Confused.
Posts: 5,964
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Post by Sicho100 on Oct 28, 2015 13:59:21 GMT -5
The problem is that the wwe wants a flag waving, pandering hispanic hero that they can tour mexico with instead of a tremendous performer who happens to be hispanic. Rey and eddie got over huge by being themselves. They were embraced by everyone, but were over with hispanics because they were GREAT, not because they pandered to nationalistic pride. The WWE doesn't understand. There's got to be more to their characters than "look at me, I'm hispanic, so love me." Well, Vince seems to think that the "'MERICA! F*** YEAH!" boarding-on-jingoism babyface is the best babyface imaginable, and that the damn evil foreigner is the best heel possible, so it's not exactly surprising that he thinks that the best way to create a new Hispanic star is to take the American babyface character and just give him a Mexican flag instead.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2015 14:00:06 GMT -5
WWE's Hispanic hunt is the most absurd thing. Just hire Mexican wrestlers, and don't book them to be losers, right?
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
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Post by Push R Truth on Oct 28, 2015 14:05:15 GMT -5
At what point in time do they just stick a mask on Big Show and call him "Gran Espectáculo"
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Oct 28, 2015 14:08:24 GMT -5
I was hoping this thread would be accompanied by a picture of Del Rio with a fake mustache.
I'm disappointed.
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Sicho100
Hank Scorpio
Easily Confused.
Posts: 5,964
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Post by Sicho100 on Oct 28, 2015 14:15:32 GMT -5
At what point in time do they just stick a mask on Big Show and call him "Gran Espectáculo" I bet Vince has tried to get them to bring back El Gigante. No one's had the heart to tell him yet.
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Post by funakifan88 on Oct 28, 2015 15:44:44 GMT -5
I don't hate Del Rio, but if his re-hiring is really just so they can have a strong Hispanic wrestler in their roster then I have to ask; what about Kalisto? This kid is as good as Rey Mysterio ever was. I know it might be difficult to build him up since their is no cruiserweight division anymore and it would definitely take longer than building up Del Rio but I would like to see them give Kalisto a shot. I like Kalisto...but "as good as Mysterio ever was"? Not even close. Rey Mysterio had more good matches...Im talking blood feud type stuff, main eventing and drawing $$$, re-inventing a whole genre...a flag bearer, pioneer, and breakout star...all before he was 25. What has Kalistio ever done to be mentioned in the same breath as Rey? No disrespect intended, because I like him...but that's a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off base comparison. I am speaking from a purely in-ring perspective. With pushes having more to do with who the office likes than it does with the actual wrestler (at least in todays world) obviously Kalisto has not reached even 1/10th of what Rey Rey has done. But speaking on just their in-ring talents I am of the mind that Kalisto is just as good as Rey. That's all.
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chrom
Backup Wench
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Member is Online
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Post by chrom on Oct 28, 2015 16:49:01 GMT -5
The problem is that the wwe wants a flag waving, pandering hispanic hero that they can tour mexico with instead of a tremendous performer who happens to be hispanic. Rey and eddie got over huge by being themselves. They were embraced by everyone, but were over with hispanics because they were GREAT, not because they pandered to nationalistic pride. The WWE doesn't understand. There's got to be more to their characters than "look at me, I'm hispanic, so love me." Vince and promoters in the west are so stuck in the past its stupid. This belief that everyone who's not American should be a negative stereotype is disgusting. Heck, if Hideo gets called up, I dread the fact that he's gonna be turned into a mist spewing ninja. You don't see American talent being treated that way in promotions like AAA, New Japan and others.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
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Post by Sephiroth on Oct 28, 2015 17:05:05 GMT -5
In short-he's short
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
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Post by Reflecto on Oct 28, 2015 17:24:26 GMT -5
The problem is that the wwe wants a flag waving, pandering hispanic hero that they can tour mexico with instead of a tremendous performer who happens to be hispanic. Rey and eddie got over huge by being themselves. They were embraced by everyone, but were over with hispanics because they were GREAT, not because they pandered to nationalistic pride. The WWE doesn't understand. There's got to be more to their characters than "look at me, I'm hispanic, so love me." Vince and promoters in the west are so stuck in the past its stupid. This belief that everyone who's not American should be a negative stereotype is disgusting. Heck, if Hideo gets called up, I dread the fact that he's gonna be turned into a mist spewing ninja. You don't see American talent being treated that way in promotions like AAA, New Japan and others. The problem there is twofold: 1) "you don't see American talent being treated that way in promotions like AAA, New Japan and others?" Totally 100% false. They absolutely treat them that way in those promotions. Indeed, puroresu were built around the entire concept of "Import a foreigner, have him play an evil negative stereotype of his country, have him throw around people throughout most of his tour, then have the hero of the company vanquish him on the last night of the tour. If it gets over, bring him back and go from there". Same thing with lucha promotions as they started booking Americans...they all do boil around the same fact. In the end, it's always pandering to nationalistic pride...and the reason for that? 2) Secretly, THAT'S WHAT WE WANT. All of us. No matter how globalized you think you are, how many friends you have around the world? You want it. You'll complain, you'll say that's not you, you hate how they make flag waving, pandering heroes for Mexico or America...but at the same time, you know in your heart that if it was one of YOUR countrymen or women who's in this case, you want them to be a flag waving, pandering hero who shows the pride of your nation and destroys those evil people from those other countries. Whether you say it or not, the only difference between Jack Swagger's gimmick now and the claim of "Well...they should have Wade Barrett, Neville, and Paige all ally together as a British stable and run roughshod!" or "They should ally Sheamus, Finn Balor, and Becky Lynch as an Irish stable and run roughshod!" is which nation they represent.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2015 18:27:30 GMT -5
2) Secretly, THAT'S WHAT WE WANT. All of us. No matter how globalized you think you are, how many friends you have around the world? You want it. You'll complain, you'll say that's not you, you hate how they make flag waving, pandering heroes for Mexico or America...but at the same time, you know in your heart that if it was one of YOUR countrymen or women who's in this case, you want them to be a flag waving, pandering hero who shows the pride of your nation and destroys those evil people from those other countries. Whether you say it or not, the only difference between Jack Swagger's gimmick now and the claim of "Well...they should have Wade Barrett, Neville, and Paige all ally together as a British stable and run roughshod!" or "They should ally Sheamus, Finn Balor, and Becky Lynch as an Irish stable and run roughshod!" is which nation they represent. That... seems like a very broad generalization. Like, I for one would put myself a lot more in the camp of just disliking making a big deal out of location stuff no matter where someone's from, because I see loyalty to locations (not just countries but states, towns, schools, whatever) as a bunch of stupid pointless bullshit that doesn't accomplish anything. And personally I found most of the, "I'm the hero of the week, fighting for the soldiers, USA, USA, USA, USA!" stuff people were constantly bringing into feuds with Rusev absolutely unbearable. Only one I really got into was Swagger and that's mostly because 1), it was more organic since it already fit his gimmick, and 2), I'm a big fan of the guy and it was nice to see him with some forward momentum for once. Plus, hell, one of my comics has a set of villains who drape themselves in red, white, and blue and are outspokenly anti-immigration.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Woo on Oct 28, 2015 20:10:22 GMT -5
Kalisto is amazing and he could be the guy they've been looking for and the crowd love him already. As others have said if they just hire Mexican wrestlers who just happen to be from Mexico without it being part of their character and book them strongly then they will become stars. But Vince has to have them become the Mexican Hulk Hogan instead.
The whole outdated evil foreginer thing has got to go too.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 28, 2015 21:20:49 GMT -5
I'm not convinced they'll have one any time soon because they don't seem interested in pushing the kind of people the Hispanic crowd is actually into. And they seem to reeeeeally not get what that crowd wants, given Alberto's face run's slogan was basically, "I'm from Mexico, but I'm glad to be gone! USA! USA! USA!" The second Alberto disparagingly referred to Neville as an immigrant, all I could think was, "Oh good, they've tanked their attempts to turn him into their top Latino star again." I genuinely don't think Vince understands the demographic he's trying to court at all. He's not against immigrants, just the illegal ones. Those damn orcs are taking our jobs
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2015 21:22:41 GMT -5
WWE is on some dumb bullshit. If you want to get Hispanic males 18-34 watching you book a smoking hot Hispanic woman strongly.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 28, 2015 21:25:22 GMT -5
WWE is on some dumb bullshit. If you want to get Hispanic males 18-34 watching you book a smoking hot Hispanic woman strongly. A big chunk of their Divas Division for the past few years have been Latinas and for them, their ethnicity isn't played up all that much.
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Post by paperbackhero on Oct 28, 2015 21:32:49 GMT -5
I like Kalisto...but "as good as Mysterio ever was"? Not even close. Rey Mysterio had more good matches...Im talking blood feud type stuff, main eventing and drawing $$$, re-inventing a whole genre...a flag bearer, pioneer, and breakout star...all before he was 25. What has Kalistio ever done to be mentioned in the same breath as Rey? No disrespect intended, because I like him...but that's a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off base comparison. I am speaking from a purely in-ring perspective. With pushes having more to do with who the office likes than it does with the actual wrestler (at least in todays world) obviously Kalisto has not reached even 1/10th of what Rey Rey has done. But speaking on just their in-ring talents I am of the mind that Kalisto is just as good as Rey. That's all. Oh. I understand that Kalisto has accomplished nothing in the business, especially compared to Mysterio...but even in-ring, Kalisto has a bunch of cool moves...but never had a good match...which is what wrestling is about. By 29, Mysterio already had HUNDREDS. So, in-ring, I dont see how they're in the same conversation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2015 23:13:17 GMT -5
On Observer Radio, Dave Meltzer said they've given up on Kalisto being their top Hispanic babyface. Dave said they thought the "Lucha! Lucha!" chants would get over more, and since they haven't, he's basically considered a failure. Come on, man. That literally can't be true.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Oct 29, 2015 0:09:05 GMT -5
I'm not too worried about Kalisto. He's barely been on the main roster for a bit over half a year, so there'll be plenty more ups and downs for him yet.
Just because he's not being pushed right now doesn't mean he's never getting pushed ever again.
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Post by mrtuesday on Oct 29, 2015 6:44:51 GMT -5
WWE is on some dumb bullshit. If you want to get Hispanic males 18-34 watching you book a smoking hot Hispanic woman strongly. The longest Diva's Champion of all time is Latina. The previous one, too. The NXT Women's Champion is Latina as well.
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Post by RedSmile on Oct 29, 2015 7:14:11 GMT -5
So rumor has it that Vince threw about 1.5 million at Del Rio.
Now tell me, how much would Pentagon Jr. have cost? How much more fun would you all have had watching him be the surprise challenger and the one to defeat John Cena?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2015 7:22:21 GMT -5
So rumor has it that Vince threw about 1.5 million at Del Rio. Now tell me, how much would Pentagon Jr. have cost? How much more fun would you all have had watching him be the surprise challenger and the one to defeat John Cena? I imagine my reaction, and that of many people watching, would be, "Who?"
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