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Post by Cela on Dec 18, 2015 13:43:49 GMT -5
I know all that because I'm a huge Star Wars nerd, but it's never been addressed in any of the movies and that's my point. The Force guiding Luke's shot in A New Hope is a credible step because earlier in the film we see Luke has some innate Force ability while he's training with the sparring orb, and Obi Wan explains how the Force works. Doesn't require any additional reading to understand that People's complaint with Rey is that despite showing some Force abilities she suddenly powers up out of nowhere in the final fight. This isn't Luke using the Force to guide his shot, it's Luke beating Vader one-on-one at the end of A New Hope rather than taking three movies to get to that point. That's too big a step to make. Now, I imagine the answer will probably be something along the lines of her being either Leia or Luke's daughter, and she's had her memory wiped to protect her from Ren and Snoke, but that's speculation. This is Luke trying to beat Vader if Vader didn't have 30 years of experience and had just been shot in the chest. It's New Hope Luke beating Revenge of the Sith Anakin. Hell, Finn did better against Ren than he did against random melee stormtrooper. Ren, despite being built as a huge badass, who can freeze a frikkin blaster shot, sucked. And while I want to see where they go with it, he came across as more Anakin than Vader.
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Dec 18, 2015 13:44:29 GMT -5
Why didn't he block Chewbacca's shot? Did he just let his guard down after killing Han? He seemed to be on the mark earlier by blocking the opening blaster shot.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 18, 2015 13:51:26 GMT -5
I know all that because I'm a huge Star Wars nerd, but it's never been addressed in any of the movies and that's my point. The Force guiding Luke's shot in A New Hope is a credible step because earlier in the film we see Luke has some innate Force ability while he's training with the sparring orb, and Obi Wan explains how the Force works. Doesn't require any additional reading to understand that People's complaint with Rey is that despite showing some Force abilities she suddenly powers up out of nowhere in the final fight. This isn't Luke using the Force to guide his shot, it's Luke beating Vader one-on-one at the end of A New Hope rather than taking three movies to get to that point. That's too big a step to make. Now, I imagine the answer will probably be something along the lines of her being either Leia or Luke's daughter, and she's had her memory wiped to protect her from Ren and Snoke, but that's speculation. This is Luke trying to beat Vader if Vader didn't have 30 years of experience and had just been shot in the chest. The Vader/Ren comparison isn't the relevant part, it's Rey jumping from being presented as just having some rudimentary Force ability to equalling Ren (regardless of his physical condition) that people seem to have the issue with.
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Post by Some Guy on Dec 18, 2015 13:52:55 GMT -5
This is Luke trying to beat Vader if Vader didn't have 30 years of experience and had just been shot in the chest. It's New Hope Luke beating Revenge of the Sith Anakin. Hell, Finn did better against Ren than he did against random melee stormtrooper. Ren, despite being built as a huge badass, who can freeze a frikkin blaster shot, sucked. And while I want to see where they go with it, he came across as more Anakin than Vader. Anakin had a far greater reputation in Sith amongst the Jedi and general community than Ren did., And for the infinite time, Ren had just ben shot. Random melee stormtrooper was not just shot and was just basically brawling, which is must different than battling with a light saber. When was he built as being a huge badass? I don't understand why they can't go a different route in dealing with an emotionally weak villain after six movies of emotionless drones (outside of Vader in Jedi).
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Post by Cela on Dec 18, 2015 14:01:22 GMT -5
It's New Hope Luke beating Revenge of the Sith Anakin. Hell, Finn did better against Ren than he did against random melee stormtrooper. Ren, despite being built as a huge badass, who can freeze a frikkin blaster shot, sucked. And while I want to see where they go with it, he came across as more Anakin than Vader. Anakin had a far greater reputation in Sith amongst the Jedi and general community than Ren did., And for the infinite time, Ren had just ben shot. Random melee stormtrooper was not just shot and was just basically brawling, which is must different than battling with a light saber. When was he built as being a huge badass? I don't understand why they can't go a different route in dealing with an emotionally weak villain after six movies of emotionless drones (outside of Vader in Jedi). He was built as a badass when he was the frontline commander of the "Empire", high ranking member of an order of knights, guy who killed a hell of a lot of Resistance, and someone who could freeze a blaster shot mid flight. Wounded or not, he should have had a much easier time against a random stormtrooper and a scavenger who had never used a lightsaber. Yes, I know scavenger had some staff fighting experience, but she used approximately none of that.
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Post by Stu on Dec 18, 2015 14:01:34 GMT -5
This is Luke trying to beat Vader if Vader didn't have 30 years of experience and had just been shot in the chest. It's New Hope Luke beating Revenge of the Sith Anakin. Hell, Finn did better against Ren than he did against random melee stormtrooper. Ren, despite being built as a huge badass, who can freeze a frikkin blaster shot, sucked. And while I want to see where they go with it, he came across as more Anakin than Vader. It's New Hope Luke beating Revenge of the Sith Anakin. Hell, Finn did better against Ren than he did against random melee stormtrooper. Ren, despite being built as a huge badass, who can freeze a frikkin blaster shot, sucked. And while I want to see where they go with it, he came across as more Anakin than Vader. Anakin had a far greater reputation in Sith amongst the Jedi and general community than Ren did., And for the infinite time, Ren had just ben shot. Random melee stormtrooper was not just shot and was just basically brawling, which is must different than battling with a light saber. When was he built as being a huge badass? I don't understand why they can't go a different route in dealing with an emotionally weak villain after six movies of emotionless drones (outside of Vader in Jedi). Exactly all this. Kylo Ren was not Darth Vader. He was never supposed to be Darth Vader. He was an ambitious villain who had not fully learned how to embrace and control the dark side. The way I see it, he was not ready to become a Sith Lord for the same reasons Anakin was not ready to become a Jedi. And that will be his biggest downfall in the long run. And as I mentioned before, I love his character. I love that we're getting a different type of Sith apprentice.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 18, 2015 14:01:45 GMT -5
Battle meditation is one of those things that's pretty well covered in the EU material and RPG content. It's the same kind of thing like Luke feeling with the Force to guide his shot on the Death Star in A New Hope. There's definitely entire lightsaber fighting styles built around using in combat. Now, I imagine the answer will probably be something along the lines of her being either Leia or Luke's daughter, and she's had her memory wiped to protect her from Ren and Snoke, but that's speculation. I want her to be Luke AND Leia's daughter!
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
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Post by CMWaters on Dec 18, 2015 14:02:12 GMT -5
Something to keep in mind: remember that at the end, Snoke said "It's time to complete his training" in reference to Kylo.
So I see it at the moment that he's somewhere between Empire Strikes Back Luke and Attack of the Clones Anakin.
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the2ndevil
Grimlock
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Post by the2ndevil on Dec 18, 2015 14:04:22 GMT -5
I was so bought into Kylo Ren before the mask removal. How do you go from freezing blasters mid-air to not being able to defeat a storm trooper? He was done the moment he removed the mask. The tantrum he threw beforehand pushed his credibility, everything afterwards was damn near impossible to take seriously. You could practically hear Simple Plan's Untitled every time he spoke.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 18, 2015 14:06:03 GMT -5
I haven't seen the film. Do they explain why he's called himself "Kylo Ren?"
He should have picked a more fearsome name.
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the2ndevil
Grimlock
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Post by the2ndevil on Dec 18, 2015 14:10:37 GMT -5
I haven't seen the film. Do they explain why he's called himself "Kylo Ren?" He should have picked a more fearsome name. He's the leader of "The Knights of Ren" according to Darth Gollum. It's implied that Ren is a name all the Knights take. No idea about "Kylo", though.
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Scooterdust
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Post by Scooterdust on Dec 18, 2015 14:40:55 GMT -5
Saw it. Loved it. Cried a bit. With Kylo Ren, we establish that he is a bad, but not such a big bad until you know what happens. Was it me or did Han refer to him as Ben when he called out to him? Also, Snoke seems to be communicating the way deceased Jedi communicate. Could the First Order have wanted the map because Luke is guarding something they want? Perhaps to resurrect Snoke in material form? Snoke does seem to be seated upon a throne. Could Luke be guarding his tomb? Also, you can't help but think Domhall Gleason tried to pull off his best Peter Cushing impression, and I hope to see more out of him. I can't help but think there is something more to Finn and Kylo, because he is especially mad at his treason. Also, we see Lando's co-pilot but no Lando? I hope JJ Abrams maintains the name of these films and keeps calling them THE FORCE or in line with it.
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Post by Stu on Dec 18, 2015 14:52:14 GMT -5
Saw it. Loved it. Cried a bit. With Kylo Ren, we establish that he is a bad, but not such a big bad until you know what happens. Was it me or did Han refer to him as Ben when he called out to him? Also, Snoke seems to be communicating the way deceased Jedi communicate. Could the First Order have wanted the map because Luke is guarding something they want? Perhaps to resurrect Snoke in material form? Snoke does seem to be seated upon a throne. Could Luke be guarding his tomb? Also, you can't help but think Domhall Gleason tried to pull off his best Peter Cushing impression, and I hope to see more out of him. I can't help but think there is something more to Finn and Kylo, because he is especially mad at his treason. Also, we see Lando's co-pilot but no Lando? I hope JJ Abrams maintains the name of these films and keeps calling them THE FORCE or in line with it. I also heard Ben, and the name was used in other articles I came across this morning. I thought Snoke was more of a hologram as opposed to a Sith spirit. At first, I thought they were following a 10-foot-tall Sith Lord. And General Hux definitely had a Grand Moff Tarkin vibe. And remember that Tarkin was badass enough to order around Darth Vader. Also, my friend chuckled that one of the First Order's leaders was basically a Weasily.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 18, 2015 15:00:08 GMT -5
Also, we see Lando's co-pilot but no Lando? Lando will be back in Episode 8 when he tries to seduce Kylo Ren Lando: "You truly belong with us here...among the clouds" Kylo: "Huh?"
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Push R Truth
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Post by Push R Truth on Dec 18, 2015 15:04:09 GMT -5
Also, we see Lando's co-pilot but no Lando? Lando will be back in Episode 8 when he tries to seduce Kylo Ren Lando: "You truly belong with us here...among the clouds" Kylo: "Huh?" Lando: Snoke never told you what happened to your father! Kylo: He didn't have to? I killed him!Lando: No... I AM YOUR DADDY *shots Kylo in the face and drinks a Colt 45* Ah... works every time!*roll credits*
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 18, 2015 15:06:03 GMT -5
They should troll Billy Dee Williams and have Lando played by Tommy Lee Jones.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 18, 2015 15:07:55 GMT -5
I hope JJ Abrams maintains the name of these films and keeps calling them THE FORCE or in line with it. JJ's done as far as Star Wars goes. Rian Johnson is writing and directing Episode 8, and Colin Trevorrow is directing Episode 9.
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Post by Some Guy on Dec 18, 2015 15:15:46 GMT -5
Anakin had a far greater reputation in Sith amongst the Jedi and general community than Ren did., And for the infinite time, Ren had just ben shot. Random melee stormtrooper was not just shot and was just basically brawling, which is must different than battling with a light saber. When was he built as being a huge badass? I don't understand why they can't go a different route in dealing with an emotionally weak villain after six movies of emotionless drones (outside of Vader in Jedi). He was built as a badass when he was the frontline commander of the "Empire", high ranking member of an order of knights, guy who killed a hell of a lot of Resistance, and someone who could freeze a blaster shot mid flight. Wounded or not, he should have had a much easier time against a random stormtrooper and a scavenger who had never used a lightsaber. Yes, I know scavenger had some staff fighting experience, but she used approximately none of that. He did beat Finn in a couple of minutes and only truly struggled against a woman he was trying to keep alive while severely wounded. And his reputation was built mostly on beating up people nowhere near equipped to actually take him head on.
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Post by FALLOUT Goldashausen #BLM on Dec 18, 2015 15:38:40 GMT -5
I am not the most hardcore Star Wars fan but I have seen all six prior films multiple times. That being said, I absolutely loved Force Awakens. Ren gave off a similar vibe to the actor's character on Girls. I kinda suspected this as soon as I heard he was cast, but the guy really gave off deviant/disturbing vibes in the interrogation scene. It was almost disturbing to watch even though none of it was explicitly sexual. And Finn, man, I feel for him but he was really weak with his combat despite being strong willed. He's the dude everyone loves but can never get it right. Which might mean that when he does overcome the odds, it will be a whole lot sweeter. I expected at least some resistance (no pun intended) to Finn's arrival at the base but maybe I'm being too picky. Something tells me the prolonged hug between Leia and Rey means more than just a hug...I'm sure everyone kinda assumes it's her daughter already, so, yeah. And something else that may have been pointed out a few times but good symbolic lighting on Ren/Ben's face when he is having his crisis. When it all turned red, I knew Han wasn't long for the world... Speaking of which, hugest pop of the movie in my theatre went to Rey wielding the lightsaber. Gasps for Han. Cheers at the end. No Rocky Horror audience interaction, but still...I love opening day.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2015 15:42:23 GMT -5
............Daniel Craig was the stormtrooper who Rey influenced, right? Pretty sure that was his voice when he started obeying the instructions. "THAT'S NOT HOW THE FORCE WORKS" and "Aaaaand I'm going to drop my gun" may be the best bits of SW dialogue in years. Also, did I see Bill Hader's name in the credits as a BB-8 voice consultant?!?
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