zappa
Trap-Jaw
Posts: 311
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Post by zappa on Jan 4, 2016 13:18:57 GMT -5
ECW insirping the Attitude Era is a huge myth. Russo and McMahon didn't watch ECW it was WCW and the NWO angle that forced them to go into a more edgy direction. You really think Vince McMahon watched some basement wrestling show?
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jan 4, 2016 13:21:20 GMT -5
ECW insirping the Attitude Era is a huge myth. Russo and McMahon didn't watch ECW it was WCW and the NWO angle that forced them to go into a more edgy direction. You really think Vince McMahon watched some basement wrestling show? Considering that he lent Heyman money so he could stay afloat and had ECW guys appearing on his own shows, yes. I think Vince did watch that "basement wrestling" (or was at least aware of it) and he'd admit as much if you asked him now.
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Post by eDemento2099 on Jan 4, 2016 14:45:39 GMT -5
ECW insirping the Attitude Era is a huge myth. Russo and McMahon didn't watch ECW it was WCW and the NWO angle that forced them to go into a more edgy direction. You really think Vince McMahon watched some basement wrestling show? It's obvious to anyone who watched some of the WWF's most famous stunts from the Attitude Era (and a little bit beyond) that these were lifted straight from ECW. Take a look at ECW's crucifixion angle and the spot where Taz and Bigelow went through the canvas. The WWF CLEARLY copied these angles when it had UT 'crucify' Austin to his 'symbol' (because copying ECW outright would have led to another bunch of people protesting on grounds of blasphemy) and when it had Big Show make a strong initial impression by choke-slamming Austin through the ring canvas.
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Post by eDemento2099 on Jan 4, 2016 15:00:35 GMT -5
In a nutshell, ECW deviated from the norm and was totally different from what we were used to at the time. New fans are likely desensitized to everything that made ECW stand out 20 years ago. That is exactly why ECW was a big deal and has a place in history. Good answer. ECW got a lot of press for their wild in ring action and risque angles in PWI and other mags. Meanwhile the WWF was showing Mantaur and Doink and WCW was loading up on WWF cast offs and having a lot of bad matches. Hence the reason why I claimed the OP sounds like an uncultured wrestling fan who has never seen anything that predates the current PG-era of WWE. Criticizing ECW for 'objectifying' women...! I guess he's too young or ignorant of WWE's recent past to remember all the 'bra and panty' matches from early 2000s (WWE only did strip matches with women, never with men) and the WWE-themed Girls Gone Wild PPV.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2016 15:02:31 GMT -5
ECW insirping the Attitude Era is a huge myth. Russo and McMahon didn't watch ECW it was WCW and the NWO angle that forced them to go into a more edgy direction. You really think Vince McMahon watched some basement wrestling show? Considering that he lent Heyman money so he could stay afloat and had ECW guys appearing on his own shows, yes. I think Vince did watch that "basement wrestling" (or was at least aware of it) and he'd admit as much if you asked him now. Not to mention his best market, the northeast, crapping on his live telecasts and chanting ECW.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,034
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Post by chazraps on Jan 4, 2016 16:41:19 GMT -5
This thread sucks. Gonna make a thread about it in 20 years. Gonna make a Facebook event and invite all you to it. See you then!
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Jan 4, 2016 19:29:04 GMT -5
ECW gets put on a borderline ridiculous pedestal sometimes, but there is absolutely no way that it "sucked".
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Post by gatordone on Jan 5, 2016 0:24:01 GMT -5
ECW insirping the Attitude Era is a huge myth. Russo and McMahon didn't watch ECW it was WCW and the NWO angle that forced them to go into a more edgy direction. You really think Vince McMahon watched some basement wrestling show? It's obvious to anyone who watched some of the WWF's most famous stunts from the Attitude Era (and a little bit beyond) that these were lifted straight from ECW. Take a look at ECW's crucifixion angle and the spot where Taz and Bigelow went through the canvas. The WWF CLEARLY copied these angles when it had UT 'crucify' Austin to his 'symbol' (because copying ECW outright would have led to another bunch of people protesting on grounds of blasphemy) and when it had Big Show make a strong initial impression by choke-slamming Austin through the ring canvas. Austin and Michaels feuding with one another and also winning the tag titles together during the feud came from the Lance Storm and Chris Candido angle of tag team champions that can't stand each other but some how gel at the right time in a match. Triple threat matches is another idea taken from ECW. If Vince didn't watch other wrestling promotions then where would he find new talent for his own company. Wrestling has always used a copycat business model.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,034
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Post by chazraps on Jan 5, 2016 0:26:53 GMT -5
ECW insirping the Attitude Era is a huge myth. Russo and McMahon didn't watch ECW it was WCW and the NWO angle that forced them to go into a more edgy direction. You really think Vince McMahon watched some basement wrestling show? You really think Vince McMahon and Vince Russo were the only two writers the Attitude Era had? Terry Taylor's gone on record on video that he pitched Big Show chokeslamming Taker through the ring because he saw Bam Bam put Taz through the mat. C'mon now.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,635
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Post by cjh on Jan 5, 2016 0:31:14 GMT -5
It's obvious to anyone who watched some of the WWF's most famous stunts from the Attitude Era (and a little bit beyond) that these were lifted straight from ECW. Take a look at ECW's crucifixion angle and the spot where Taz and Bigelow went through the canvas. The WWF CLEARLY copied these angles when it had UT 'crucify' Austin to his 'symbol' (because copying ECW outright would have led to another bunch of people protesting on grounds of blasphemy) and when it had Big Show make a strong initial impression by choke-slamming Austin through the ring canvas. Austin and Michaels feuding with one another and also winning the tag titles together during the feud came from the Lance Storm and Chris Candido angle of tag team champions that can't stand each other but some how gel at the right time in a match. Triple threat matches is another idea taken from ECW. If Vince didn't watch other wrestling promotions then where would he find new talent for his own company. Wrestling has always used a copycat business model. The Austin/Michaels angle happened six months before Candido and Storm won the ECW tag titles.
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Post by gatordone on Jan 5, 2016 0:36:55 GMT -5
Austin and Michaels feuding with one another and also winning the tag titles together during the feud came from the Lance Storm and Chris Candido angle of tag team champions that can't stand each other but some how gel at the right time in a match. Triple threat matches is another idea taken from ECW. If Vince didn't watch other wrestling promotions then where would he find new talent for his own company. Wrestling has always used a copycat business model. The Austin/Michaels angle happened six months before Candido and Storm won the ECW tag titles. Oh shit I stand corrected. Thanks for reminding me. I always thought the Storm/Candido thing happened in 1996 but now I remember that they were partners when Sunny first got to ECW in 1998.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jan 5, 2016 2:17:36 GMT -5
It didn't suck, but was vastly overrated by a core group of hardcore fans. It's almost like the My Little Pony Show today. And I was in Philly during it's heyday. As much as Paul Heyman tries to say Malenko this and Jericho that, the stuff they were selling on the VHS was the stuff that was too violent even for them; and the violence toward women and misogyny was never really comfortable. Paul Heyman, a genius though.
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Post by eDemento2099 on Jan 5, 2016 2:31:35 GMT -5
Doesn't the 'tag team partners who hate each other's guts' thing extend further back than that? I mean, Hogan and Sid were tag team partners around the time of the 92 Royal Rumble. After Hogan cheated Sid out of winning the Royal Rumble event, Sid walked out on Hogan (his tag team partner) during a matchup with some other team.
I also remember WCW having a tag team tournament in the 90s in which the teams were determined by random lottery, and Vader had to work with one of his arch-enemies. (I think it was Cactus Jack.)
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Post by gatordone on Jan 6, 2016 0:07:02 GMT -5
Doesn't the 'tag team partners who hate each other's guts' thing extend further back than that? I mean, Hogan and Sid were tag team partners around the time of the 92 Royal Rumble. After Hogan cheated Sid out of winning the Royal Rumble event, Sid walked out on Hogan (his tag team partner) during a matchup with some other team. I also remember WCW having a tag team tournament in the 90s in which the teams were determined by random lottery, and Vader had to work with one of his arch-enemies. (I think it was Cactus Jack.) Hogan and Sid weren't tag team champions and they were friends at the beginning. The Austin/Michaels and Storm/Candido angles were about two wrestlers that couldn't stand each other and were put together by management and yet thrived and held on to their titles despite not getting along even during their matches. The Vader/Cactus Jack thing was at battle bowl where the winning tag team would advance to a battle royal but that was for only one match. It also pinned tag team partners against each other too.
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Post by Ruthless Pessimism on Jan 7, 2016 15:10:00 GMT -5
I liked ECW because it was something different.
WWF had great characters. WCW had solid wrestling matches. ECW had crazy guys beating the shit out of each other.
I enjoyed all three for those reasons.
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Post by paperbackhero on Jan 7, 2016 23:58:19 GMT -5
Doesn't the 'tag team partners who hate each other's guts' thing extend further back than that? I mean, Hogan and Sid were tag team partners around the time of the 92 Royal Rumble. After Hogan cheated Sid out of winning the Royal Rumble event, Sid walked out on Hogan (his tag team partner) during a matchup with some other team. I also remember WCW having a tag team tournament in the 90s in which the teams were determined by random lottery, and Vader had to work with one of his arch-enemies. (I think it was Cactus Jack.) Hogan and Sid weren't tag team champions and they were friends at the beginning. The Austin/Michaels and Storm/Candido angles were about two wrestlers that couldn't stand each other and were put together by management and yet thrived and held on to their titles despite not getting along even during their matches. The Vader/Cactus Jack thing was at battle bowl where the winning tag team would advance to a battle royal but that was for only one match. It also pinned tag team partners against each other too. The reluctant tag partners who were enemies gimmick has been going on since the 60's...probably even before.
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Post by gatordone on Jan 8, 2016 0:21:09 GMT -5
There are many reasons why some thought ECW was garbage wrestling. For one a good chunk of their roster consisted of cast-offs from WWF and WCW ie: Raven, Douglas, Candido, Bigelow, Snow, Scorpio, Smothers, and Credible. Two of their Heavyweight champions were the Sandman and Mickey Whipwreck. One was a chain smoking alcoholic and the other was a weirdo that just took a beating. Not exactly Hogan/Flair material there. Another reason was the fact that ECW matches had no rules. The match had to end with a victor by pin fall or submission. Weapons and outside interference were tolerated. ECW also had a rampant drug culture and it showed with there talent. After Lance Storm, a pot smoker like RVD was pretty much the cleanest of the bunch. Finally when you look at where a lot of former ECW stars are today, it doesn't look very pretty. Some are alive, some are dead, and the rest are living by a thread.
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Mackenzie Gorn
Don Corleone
I want my personal title back, but I don't know how!
AND THE WAVE OF POSSESIONS DEVOLVE INTO A CHEVY!
Posts: 2,036
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Post by Mackenzie Gorn on Jan 8, 2016 15:52:32 GMT -5
I like Balls Mahoney.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2016 19:41:30 GMT -5
I'll add to those saying it was quite an experience if you were a young adult fan in those times. I was in my 20s, the Seattle (and Chicago) music culture had a heavy hand in what you listened to, and here's ECW. In your face, f*** the world, we're taking wrestling by the balls and running with an extreme view and production.
This is different...from what's being offered. And 3/4ths of it was wild and entertaining. (Even JT Smith matches.)
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Jan 9, 2016 8:08:43 GMT -5
Entertaining? Yeah mostly Well done? Not by any metric. It was a cable access show. When it got ppv they barley stepped up production Good for certain wrestlers? Yes Good for wrestling? No. A poster in here said it 100% the overuse of weapons and high spots killed the impact of a ton of logic. It has literally taken a generation of fans/programing to begin recovering to the point where a stiff shot can be effectively sold to the audiences.
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