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Post by radiantsilvergun on Jan 2, 2016 1:05:40 GMT -5
Which wrestlers do you think had the best transition from the indies to WWE in terms of keeping most or all of their moveset? On the flip side, who has gotten better movesets or worse movesets since making the jump?
I've been thinking about how watered down Owen's moveset is compared to the indies. Not even just the package piledriver but small things like the flipping leg drop, sleeper suplex, and Deep Sea Diverticulitis are sorely missed. He has the rest of the "total package" down pat, but he hasn't really set the world on fire like he did in the indies ever since coming into the WWE. Has he even worked a hardcore match in WWE yet? He kicks ass at that but now he's relegated to working that WWE Sneaky Heel style.
On the flip side: Zayn and Neville are two guys who haven't lost a step making the jump. Pretty much doing the same they've always have for the most part. Cesaro and Rollins are two guys that have done the opposite and turned it up 10 notches.
Anyone you can think of?
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Jan 2, 2016 1:09:28 GMT -5
I've never got the WWE love of totally negating a guys moveset. I get removing some of the dangerous moves/banned moves like piledrivers but, in the case of Owens, why remove the sleeper suplex or flipping leg drop? They're not any more dangerous than other moves out there and look cool as hell.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2016 1:10:55 GMT -5
Ambrose has become absolute garbage, wrestling wise, since wearing jeans. He's picked it up with his Owens feud.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jan 2, 2016 1:29:10 GMT -5
While I miss the package Piledriver, I do like that he has turned it into a package powerbomb. I think a lot of the more athletic stuff you have to save for a face run or for the rare big match spot. He is trying to be a heel that actually gets heel heat which is tough to do in WWE when you can go like he can.
To me the worst is actually someone like Neville who, at least since hitting the main roster, can only hit 2 high flying moves despite being "The Man That Gravity Forgot". They're killing his whole gimmick by restricting him.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jan 2, 2016 1:43:54 GMT -5
While I miss the package Piledriver, I do like that he has turned it into a package powerbomb. I think a lot of the more athletic stuff you have to save for a face run or for the rare big match spot. He is trying to be a heel that actually gets heel heat which is tough to do in WWE when you can go like he can. To me the worst is actually someone like Neville who, at least since hitting the main roster, can only hit 2 high flying move despite being "The Man That Gravity Forgot". They're killing his whole gimmick by restricting him. That's on WWE for restricting their performers as a whole. "WWE Guys" have been reared up in such a restrictive way that limits their ability to actually adapt and grow as an in ring workee that when a seasoned Indy worker like Kevin Owens comes in, people just typically look substandard by comparison. Owens is basically being forced to hold himself back to keep from out shining people (too much). If WWE just took the restrictions off of everyone and gave them free reign to do whatever they want, they could go all out to keep the fans' interest and guys like Owens wouldn't feel the need to hold themselves back |
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Jan 2, 2016 2:04:14 GMT -5
Everyone's style and individuality get nerfed so hard the moment they hit the main roster. There's so much high up meddling to fit into the same style that noone stands out.
noone on an important show wrestles well anymore. There's always a pause between every single move to reset. On PPV main events the gap gets so big you could park a bus in it. Then there's falsh finish after false ass finish...
Anyone have the network? Go back and watch Austin vs Rock from X7, or for that matter, look up the video of it he commentates over. Rediscover the art of a big match.
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 2, 2016 2:08:24 GMT -5
Daniel Bryan. The guy had an arsenal full of completely safe suplexes and submissions, and he basically turned into a guy who kicks a lot in WWE.
CM Punk also dropped some moves for no reason. The big one to me being the Pepsi Twist. He used it on Morrison a couple of times, but that's all I can remember him using it in WWE. Kinda dumb to drop a move that can be hit on anyone, and looks cool without breaking WWE's safety rules.
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Post by The Lach is very tired on Jan 2, 2016 7:23:15 GMT -5
I hesitate on criticizing anyone for taking moves out of their arsenal when they make it to WWE. We don't know what damage they have done to themselves with these moves or what injuries they are carrying. If someone dropping a move means they can work better overall matches then I have no problem with it.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 2, 2016 10:41:04 GMT -5
The guy whose moveset got the most killed was actually Tensai when they brought him back. He looked like he was murdering people in Japan, then he came back and couldn't do any of those moves.
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Post by Marksus on Jan 2, 2016 13:19:12 GMT -5
Kevin Owens has modified his corner somersault to using his hands more since he came in.
If it's safer why not.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2016 13:32:35 GMT -5
The guy whose moveset got the most killed was actually Tensai when they brought him back. He looked like he was murdering people in Japan, then he came back and couldn't do any of those moves. I could live with the fact that they weren't going to let him have the Giant Bernard moveset - the WWE hasn't allowed anyone to use a sitout tombstone in basically forever, and Kevin Owens already has a finisher that's a powerbomb. What I can't wrap my head around, though, is why they didn't at least let him use his A-Train/Albert moveset with a few extra tweaks. |
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Jan 2, 2016 14:07:56 GMT -5
I can understand the motivation in asking a guy/girl to scale back their repertoire. How many times have you witnessed the most fantastic sequences or feats as mere speedbumps in other organizations? If it's proven to be consistently safe, the 'E will provide with a due platform in which it is given proper space to breath and be reflected upon as an event. For instance, for those that overlap between the Tyler Black/Seth Rollins fandom of his career, how many times has one been witness to Black's phoenix splashes versus Rollins' scant few and which can you honestly say were objectively a bigger deal?
Besides, I figure the object is to convince people to part with money to see these fantastical feats of human athleticism and whatnot, and therefore treating them as scarce is economically conducive to that fact.
Anyways, on topic, I'd nominate Apollo Crews for not only having survived the transitioned, but benefited from it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2016 14:35:29 GMT -5
I think CM Punk had a good transition. I loved his character in the indies but I never really cared for his matches, I felt like he was always moving a step faster than he was comfortable with and doesn't really have the knack for the hyperathletic style that was becoming the thing at the time and is commonplace now. He just looked clunky to me then and the Pepsi Plunge was Del Rio Stomp level bad as a finisher.
In WWE he seemed a lot more in control of himself. Though I always found it odd how much he completely lifted from KENTA, and all at once even, but it did suit him anyways.
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Post by lemonyellowson on Jan 2, 2016 14:48:57 GMT -5
Is there a list anywhere of all the banned moves?
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jan 2, 2016 14:56:46 GMT -5
The guy whose moveset got the most killed was actually Tensai when they brought him back. He looked like he was murdering people in Japan, then he came back and couldn't do any of those moves. I could live with the fact that they weren't going to let him have the Giant Bernard moveset - the WWE hasn't allowed anyone to use a sitout tombstone in basically forever, and Kevin Owens already has a finisher that's a powerbomb. What I can't wrap my head around, though, is why they didn't at least let him use his A-Train/Albert moveset with a few extra tweaks. Sheamus took his kick and maybe he couldn't use the Derailer anymore because dude is getting older and that's gonna be hell on the knees. |
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 2, 2016 16:56:27 GMT -5
Is there a list anywhere of all the banned moves? It's pretty much anything that involves drops on the head and neck. Piledriver variations, brain busters (proper ones), stuff like that. |
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