percymania
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Percymania will live forever! Oh yeah!
Posts: 17,296
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Post by percymania on Apr 4, 2016 3:23:05 GMT -5
I just got home from Mania. What an incredible show and spectacle that was. Wow. Ryder winning the IC title was shocking. Stone Cold's pop was crazy - best of the night. Jericho/Styles was a great match. The women had a great match too. Taker/Shane was wild. Great surprises like Shaq, Snoop, DDP and Baron Corbin. Bray Wyatt is over big time.
I look forward to the crowd tomorrow night. I know my voice is a little sore from booing Roman Reigns tonight.
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Post by thetower52 on Apr 4, 2016 3:31:29 GMT -5
God I hope Jericho vs AJ is over now. I'm sick of it. I saw one in person it was good ish. But I do t feel either of these guys really click right. I think Jericho is a step to slow for Styes now.
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JoDaNa1281
Crow T. Robot
Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender. #BLM
Posts: 40,133
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Apr 4, 2016 3:57:39 GMT -5
WrestleMania 32 Match Times
U.S. Title Match - 8:58
B.A.D. & Blonde vs. Total Divas - 11:25
Dudleyz vs. Usos - 5:18
IC Title Ladder Match - 15:23
Jericho vs. Styles - 17:10
League of Nations vs. New Day - 10:03
Lesnar vs. Ambrose - 13:06
Women's Title Match - 16:03
Undertaker vs. Shane - 30:05
ATGMBR - 9:41
Rowan vs. Rock - 0:06
WWE WHC Match - 27:11
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Post by sternrogers01 on Apr 4, 2016 4:00:45 GMT -5
Was'nt the best 'Mania ever, Ryder winning was a nice surprise but I sort of saw that coming after Jericho's "you can't win the big one" speech to him on RAW last week, and then Owens adding similar insults about him on the pre-show
How much of a pop would have occurred if HHH got the win on Reigns after that mist-timed spear? It'd be a main event level reminder of the Hass/Lillian Garcia botch? I admit, when Steph got in the ring, I thought she was going to turn on Hunter and side with Reigns.
New Day not going over was bullshit, worse, the guys that beat them didn't even maintain their heat because the texas wing of the Millionaire's Club had to have their moment.
Brock vs Dean, what a waste...what was the point of teasing the chainsaw and barbed wire only to it leading to just more teasing of the chainsaw and barbed wire? Chainsaw use is stupid enough as it is, but at least have it chop a table in half or something visually inticing. Instead this played out exactly how some bored billy no-mates clocks in on an exhibition bout on WWE 2K16, Dean was made out to be zero threat at all.
Shane vs 'Taker was good for what it was, Shane's selling at times looked fairly comical and his attempts at hell's gate was poor, the spots at the end made up for it, but the WWE gave us no swerves or surprises with the match, makes you wonder what the point of having it ever was.
Can't say enough good things about the womens's match, probably the saving grace of the show, with the wrong woman going over.
And yay for the return of the Wrestlemania post-show video package after a six year hiatus
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Phil Parent
El Dandy
Your Favourite Teacher
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Phil Parent on Apr 4, 2016 7:06:23 GMT -5
After a good night of sleep, I see more positive with the show.
IC match was good. Ryder winning was a nice moment.
Triple threat WAS a good match. Charlotte isn't bad, I just think the time was right for Sasha.
Corbin winning makes sense as a way to bring him up.
Women's tag was decent enough.
But there was no classic. Three matches on Takeover were better than the best WM had to offer.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 9:13:11 GMT -5
After a good night of sleep, I see more positive with the show. To borrow a phrase, I enjoyed the Ladder match, too bad Sami or Owens didnt' win. Austin, HBK, and Foley made WrestleMania for me. Women's title match was the best of the night, to me. Wanted Sasha to win, oh well. Shane died for our sins and was disappointed with the end of the match. All the entrances were spot on too.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Apr 4, 2016 9:14:55 GMT -5
My star ratings for the matches if anyone is interested
Kalisto/Ryback - **3/4 Total Divas tag - **1/2 Dudleys/Usos - ** Ladder match - **** Styles/Jericho - ***1/4 New Day/LON - **1/4 Brock/Dean - *** Women's match - **** Shane/Taker - **1/2 Battle Royal - * Reigns/HHH - *3/4
4/10
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the2ndevil
Grimlock
Super Seducer Survivor
Where Is Your Santa, Now?
Posts: 13,629
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Post by the2ndevil on Apr 4, 2016 9:23:40 GMT -5
If anyone wants to listen to Funaki's commentary, WWE have uploaded the Japanese audio version of WrestleMania, along with the French, German, Spanish, Portugese and Russian commentaries, onto the Network You know what? I may just do that when I get home from work, tonight.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Apr 4, 2016 10:25:05 GMT -5
Dave Meltzer is saying WWE legit drew over 93,000, which would probably put them over the announced crowd of Mania III. This clearly is now the biggest attendance ever for a WWE show.
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Post by bmfjules on Apr 4, 2016 11:07:55 GMT -5
This will be very long, so TL;DR = Wrestling great. Booking Shit.
I feel the need to separate my thoughts on this year's Wrestlemania. So, I want to talk about just the matches and moments themselves first without any mention of the booking, and then go back and address that afterwards. That seems like the only way I can do justice to both how much I loved, and hated, Wrestlemania 32.
First, a minor preamble about the pre-show. I did not see Ryback and Kalisto, and really nothing about that storyline or match mattered to me, so I don’t feel the need to go back and watch it. I also did not see the Total Divas vs Other Divas multiple woman tag match, since I had some errands to run during that match, and like before, I feel zero need to go back and watch it. The Usos and The Dudleys didn’t get much time, but it was alright for what it was and the Usos got a cool stereo table spot at the end. It was cool to hear Mauro Raunallo get to call some of the action. My God how much better this show would have been if he and Jerry would have called the whole thing instead of Cole, JBL, and Saxton.
The IC title ladder match was an insane spectacle. It wasn’t as nuts as some ladder matches I’ve seen, but lately they’ve all been pretty nuts. Of course it was a cluster, but that’s what these things are. The spot with Sin Cara flipping from the ladder into a swanton deal off the ropes to the outside was a great “holy shit” moment. There were also plenty of moments in this match, such as the frog splash by Owens, or the suplex spot at the end, that my primary concern was just that I hope these guys don’t freaking kill themselves, and for me, that lessens my enjoyment of a match anymore when I stop and think about the consequences of all the crazy shit I am witnessing. Still, this was a spectacular cluster, kind of a metaphor for the entire show in a way. For match quality I give it 3 and ½ stars.
Jericho and AJ was a great match between two guys who you’d expect no less from, and it was given a good amount of time thankfully. There were a few things here and there that looked a little clunky and not quite as polished, but overall these two guys gelled and the incorporation of the false finishes here were done perfectly, and for once, it was done during the absolute right time and place, so it wasn’t just a mind numbing “You kick out of my moves, then I’ll kick out of your moves, then I win with a roll up..” sort of bullshit. AJ Styles looked like a big match star here, and I was absolutely thrilled with the quality of this match and the caliber of performances from both men. The layout of the match and the facial mannerisms of Jericho was top notch. I give this a rating of 4 and ¼ stars.
The League of Nations vs. the New Day… Honestly, match quality wise I don’t remember a lot about this one. It seems like in retrospect that this one might have gotten cut short, but I’m not sure. Big E did that spear to the outside spot where it always looks like he spikes his head on the floor. I really wish he’d stop that. The New Day was given an all-star level goofy entrance. I’ll say 2 and ¼, or maybe 2 and ½ for match quality here, without getting into the booking specifics I’ll go over in the second part of this. I will also save my thoughts on Austin/Foley/HBK for that part as well.
The women’s three way match was another great match. Like Jericho and AJ, it had some clunkiness early on, but these girls worked through that and turned in something they can all be proud of. I thought everyone’s entrance was spectacular, although I wished Becky had gotten a little more in comparison. That said these ladies worked their asses off. The moonsault from Charlotte was a show-stopping spot, and pulled of flawlessly. Now, I can’t say I haven’t seen better in NXT—I have. But, this was at least good enough to be on that level of match, and that taking place in front of a crowd like this is a ground breaking moment. 4 stars for this one.
Ambrose and Lesnar was really good, but there wasn’t nearly enough of it. This is a match that really felt like it got cut. I know there’s really nothing you can safely do with a chainsaw, but after hyping it, all we got was Dean trying to start it? That was lame. I would have at least maybe had him going crazy sawing up one of the announce tables, or use the chainsaw in a comedy spot to scare Heyman, like revving it up and send Heyman running noggin first into the post or something. ANYTHING. Also, the barbwire bat was another disappointment. Of course, PG ruins everything, but my god after what they got away with in the HIAC, you could have done more here. Dean kissing the bat was pretty cool, but he got ZERO offense done. I was also disappointed with the suplex counter dealia bob. John Cena took 15 or 16 suplexes in the match where this Suplex City stuff started a year and a half ago, and I thought Dean should at least double that for bragging rights, but instead he didn’t even match it. There were things I liked about this. Ambrose had a great crazy man vibe, and also had some good hope spots of beating Lesnar, but overall this was way too short, and not nearly violent enough. 3 1/5 stars for what was here, but I feel like I should dock it way down for what was not.
The Undertaker vs Shane McMahon over delivered in every respect it could, without getting into the booking, like I said above. I thought this match would have to be all smoke and mirrors with run-ins galore, but they proved me wrong. Shane and Taker worked a great match with some very memorable spots, to say the least. There were some parts I didn’t buy at all, like Shane forcing Taker to the brink of tapping out. The announcers did a great job of trying to sell me this, but I wasn’t buying it. Still, Shane didn’t look like a non-worker stuck in a match where he didn’t belong. He looked competent, even if sloppy, which made sense for the character. This match was well laid out and well executed. The coast to coast spot really impressed me, especially at 48 years old with Shane O’ Mac damn near overjumping. I kept expecting him to botch something up horribly, but he never did. The dive off the top of the cell was damn insanity, and while it made the match, it was another moment where I just kept praying that no one died. They made it as safe as they could with the airbag under the announce desk, which, if they had done a slightly better job, camera wise, of not exposing that, the spot would have looked even more sick. Foley’s fall still takes the cake for me. His only padding was his ample backside. This match was great though. Easy 4 and ½ stars for me.
The Andre the Giant Battle Royal. It was random. In the middle of the match, there was Tatanka. No one noticed, or said anything until halfway through, but there he was, and by this point in the show I was so numbed by all the random shit I’d already seen that I was just like. Of course Tatanka showed up out of nowhere unannounced. Why wouldn’t he? It was cool seeing Shaq being a part of this, but this was easily the worst of all the Andre battle royals so far quality wise. It was a rushed cluster, and it was in the death spot. 2 stars, and that’s being extremely generous due to how cool it was seeing Shaq and DDP and a few others. It really was more like 1 and ¼.
I will talk about the Rock and Wyatts segment in the next section. Technically there was a match here, but it was six seconds long, so I’m including it all as one big segment for the booking dissection of this.
Roman vs Triple H was slow and methodical. The crowd being turned off was so distracting that it was all I could focus on. This was worse than Goldberg/Lesnar as far as fans just shitting all over something. First the good stuff. Stephanie looked really, really hot. Triple H’s entrance was a bizarre thing of greatness. Steph also took a spear like a champ, and there were some other good spots here and there, but overall, it’s hard to focus on match quality in a match where the main story is how much booking failed, and how much the fans completely rejected what they were given. 2 and ½ stars to the match itself, but with that, it’s time to get onto the booking portion of this review.
---------------Booking Breakdown-------------
The IC title ladder match really should have been a singles match with Owens and Zayn, or a three way with Ziggler at most. The timing was perfect, the guys were perfect, and it would have been so much more meaningful for those guys to have a classic match other than being stuck in what I guess is now the annual clusterf*** IC ladder match. Stardust, Miz, and ZR were presented as such jokes and afterthoughts that it just felt ridiculous to even have them on the card, except maybe in the Andre battle royal. That’s not a knock any of those guys, but just on their booking. It was a nice moment for Ryder to get what will probably be his career defining win. But in the grand scheme of things, this is a half decade too late, and comes at the expense of Owens and Zayn, whose stories got pushed to the backburner for a guy whose barely been on TV in the last four years. I was happy for Ryder, but this was the first of many head-scratchers on the night.
Jericho going over AJ was really infuriating. This kind of booking is why WWE can’t make new stars. They just can’t. It’s 50/50 bullshit. And it creates a stalemate that goes on forever and keeps everyone but the part timers stuck in mid-card hell. AJ should have won this one, and moved onto bigger and better things. Now, in a company where 50/50 wasn’t the norm, and the booking was generally competent, I wouldn’t mind this loss nearly as much, as AJ still had a star making performance, but WWE has not done nearly enough to warrant that benefit of the doubt/goodwill. This felt like the first true “F-you” to the fans of a night that seemed to be full of such moments. It was truly deflating, and Jericho gains nothing from the win. He should have put over AJ clean. End of story.
The New Day losing to the League of Nations was also just assbackwards booking, although I can at least see the logic of it, as they were setting up the big Attitude Era run-in. Still, there were better ways to get here than to hand a loss to one of the hottest acts in the company. The LON is just a case study in bad booking. Here are four guys who at any one time all could have been main event level talents, who are now all stuck in a stable going nowhere. They have anti-chemistry. WWE completely retconned Sheamus’ title run out of the opening video package for Reigns and HHH, and you know what, I completely agree with that decision. I understand some didn’t like seeing the old timers come out and beat up the LON, but I didn’t mind that as the LON are basically 3MB at this point anyway. HBK looked like he could step back in the ring and pick up right where he left off. Foley looked in better shape than he’s been in, in a long time, and Austin didn’t look bad, but imagine the popif he had been wearing his wrestling gear like Shawn and Mick were?
I had no problem with the booking of the women’s match. I thought it was a great decision to do the new belt, and to change the name. Some people were upset that Sasha didn’t win. Others didn’t like Flair interfering. I didn’t mind. Flair is Charlotte’s manager, and it gave Sasha an out for not winning. Charlotte is as deserving as either Becky or Sasha and whoever beats her will have a huge feather in their cap. I may be in the minority, but I liked this one.
Dean Ambrose is now the new Dolph Ziggler. It doesn’t matter how much we all love him. WWE isn’t going to push him. He didn’t even get as good a loss as he should have with the match being as short as it was. This was another tough blow. Ambrose was getting cheered wildly, against Brock Lesnar. That’s astoundingly hard to do. People love Brock and generally don’t want him to lose. On the other hand, people generally dislike HHH, and Reigns still was so hated it made Trips the babyface by default. It’s WWE’s product and they can do what they want, but at least spare me the bullshit of pretending like Vince gives one/tenth of a shit what the fans think anymore. He’s not just out of touch, he’s completely out to lunch. Dean losing like he did here was bullshit, and it made me sad to watch.
There really was no good way out of the HIAC match. It was booked into a corner from the start. No one wants to see Taker lose again, but beating Shane killed off the best hope storyline wise of getting Raw to go in a much needed new direction after Wrestlemania. I was hoping to see a situation where Taker would sacrifice himself, and take the intentional loss as a final FU to Vince and the Authority, as he wrestled his final match in Texas. That I think would have worked, but instead he just won, so basically Vince McMahon, the heel, got what he wanted, and the fans lost, again.
The Rock had a great entrance with the flamethrower and the cheerleaders, and I was generally entertained by his stuff with the Wyatts. The Wyatts are another booking disaster though, and this didn’t help them any. They were made to look like idiots by a part timer. It was entertaining, but again, at the cost of making new stars, which Bray could have been. The Rock had some hilarious zingers here, and I enjoyed them. The Rock winning in six seconds over Rowan was perhaps the most random thing of the night, and that’s saying something. Cena and Rock had a nice moment here, and Cena got to make a big return. I guess I could see a way of being offended by this, but by this point I was numb to the booking, and the Wyatts were already DOA by this point.
Baron Corbin was a nobody to this crowd when the battle royal started. The announcers did nothing to put him over as anything but a nobody. His biggest thing in NXT is that he’s tall, but here he was in a match with the Big Show, Kane, Mark Henry and SHAQ! He looked like a nothing skinny jobber next to those guys and his win was just random. They honestly would have been better off with Shaq winning, for the PR and headlines. I would have given the win to Mark Henry, since it would be a great tip of the hat to the guy in Texas. I’ve got nothing against Corbin, but he doesn’t have the look or the presence, or anything to deserve a win like this. He is like a singles version of the Ascension, and to reverse quote DDP, that’s not a good thing, that’s a BAD thing.
Reigns/HHH. Holy shit—where to even begin with this one. For starters, putting this on last was a ballsy move, and as much as I like title matches going on last, if I had been at Mania, I probably would have just left to beat the traffic rush after the Taker match. If I stayed, it would only be to hear the spectacle of the crowd shitting on this match. The booking of Roman Reigns could be a post as long as everything I’ve written about this entire card. They tried so hard to shove him down our throats. The opening video package where he just said all he cared about was being “a good man” and other heavy handed stuff and it all backfired. Turning off the crowd mics honestly just made the backlash more noticeable. This Reigns experiment has failed at every turn, except briefly when he beat Sheamus the first time, but then they ruined that as well. Reigns will never be over as a main event babyface, and he doesn’t have the talent that John Cena has at playing a divided audience. Cena is good enough to win some haters over to his side, or at least knows how to roll with it. Reigns just looks butthurt and does the same match he always does, and creates more ill-will for himself that the booking started. The match itself was plodding, so the only thing to notice was the crowd shitting over everything, chanting for Nakamura, doing the Ole chant at one time I believe. Roman Reigns had more heel heat here than any heel I can remember since before the kayfabe era of wrestling ended.
Also, the promo Stephanie McMahon cut in the entrance felt like the perfect thematic cap to this entire Wrestlemania. It seems like a direct message to the hardcore fans. We don’t care about you. You don’t matter. We are in charge, and this is the shit we are giving you to make you miserable. Well, it was shit, and we were miserable. I’m not emotionally drained like I would have been a few years ago. By now, I just don’t care enough to be angry or truly disheartened towards WWE. They have been getting my hopes up for over a decade and them dashing them against the rocks. At this point, I’m just keeping tabs of it all from a distanced, healthy POV. Wrestling wise, this Mania was one of the best I can remember, maybe top two. Booking wise, I have to say it was without a doubt, the dirt worst.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 11:59:45 GMT -5
What a night. I enjoyed being there live. My favorite matches were the ladder match, Shane/Taker, Y2AJ and the women's title match. Sadly, I did not get a BINGO on my card.
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543Y2J
Patti Mayonnaise
Seventh level .gif Master
Posts: 38,794
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Post by 543Y2J on Apr 4, 2016 12:09:23 GMT -5
My star ratings for the matches if anyone is interested Kalisto/Ryback - **3/4 Total Divas tag - **1/2 Dudleys/Usos - ** Ladder match - **** Styles/Jericho - ***1/4 New Day/LON - **1/4 Brock/Dean - *** Women's match - **** Shane/Taker - **1/2 Battle Royal - * Reigns/HHH - *3/4 4/10 This, all of this.
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Post by Porky's Butthole on Apr 4, 2016 13:03:43 GMT -5
Fiiiiiiiinally. In the building now, guys! Let's do this! Guys? Guys? They all must still be outside. Any live reports from the first few matches, especially the opener? Did it feel like a TNA house show at times? Nah. There were people there.
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Post by AndyUK on Apr 4, 2016 13:04:48 GMT -5
It was alright, I guess. I suppose that's not really the feeling that you want coming out of Mania. It was typical 2016 WWE fare really, plenty of solid wrestling (though nothing amazing, it has to be said) and some cool moments marred by stupid booking and their inability to even try and do anything remotely interesting with their current talent.
Ladder Match - A fun spotfest so exactly what you'd expect really. Ryder winning was a nice moment but so very, very random too. ***
Styles/Y2J - Good match, though not any better than their others. God knows why Jericho won, maybe he'll feud with Reigns? ***1/4
New Day/LON - Okay filler match, though again question marks over the winners. Seeing Austin/HBK/Foley afterwards was decent. **1/4
Lesnar/Ambrose Street Fight - So underwhelming. It ended far too soon and was just a glorified squash for Lesnar really. ***1/2
Divas Triple Threat - Really good match as you'd expect from these three, though I did expect Sasha to win rather than Charlotte. ***
Taker/Shane HIAC- That bump from Shane was amazing and it was a fun match, though I was surprised not to see any interference. ***1/2
Battle Royal - This was decent, got the Shaq/Big Show face-off they've teased for years and a nice surprise with Corbin winning. **
Rock/Cena/Wyatts - This was a cool segment other than the weird Rock/Rowan match that was a complete waste of time.
Reigns/HHH - Meh. I think everyone had had enough at this point so that didn't help but it should've been much more of a brawl. The fact the bellends turned the sound of the crowd down didn't help either. **1/2
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Pushed to the Moon
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Tony Schiavone in Disguise
Working myself into a shoot
Posts: 15,819
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Apr 4, 2016 13:32:28 GMT -5
God I hope Jericho vs AJ is over now. I'm sick of it. I saw one in person it was good ish. But I do t feel either of these guys really click right. I think Jericho is a step to slow for Styes now. Yeah I don't think they have the best chemistry. There's always some good spots and reversals but there's always slow/sloppier bits too. I think Jericho calls a lot of it in the ring and since they haven't worked together before it doesn't help.
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Phil Parent
El Dandy
Your Favourite Teacher
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Phil Parent on Apr 4, 2016 13:35:53 GMT -5
LON over New Day makes sense in one way: who should win between a team comprised of two former world champions and someone that had this long winning streak (with a 4th wrestler on the outside doing their bidding) and a team comprised of a glorified manager and two midcarders?
It makes sense the LON would win based on that.
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Post by machomuta on Apr 4, 2016 15:39:48 GMT -5
What a horrible show. The Women's match was good. The rest of the show was boring and a waste of time.
Ryder got the biggest face pop for a win at WrestleMania. That is all you need to know about the booking in this company.
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