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Post by funakifan88 on Mar 13, 2016 23:35:31 GMT -5
If, say, The Figure Four was applied in a match but the opponent got to the ropes to cause a break... Is that not kind of like kicking out of a finisher?
Random sleepy thought.
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Mar 14, 2016 0:02:01 GMT -5
Kicking out of a finisher is usually considered a bigger deal. Getting to the ropes during a submission move that's someone's finisher generally isn't seen to de-value that move in the same way that kicking out of a finisher would.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Mar 14, 2016 0:38:00 GMT -5
Kicking out of a finisher is usually considered a bigger deal. Getting to the ropes during a submission move that's someone's finisher generally isn't seen to de-value that move in the same way that kicking out of a finisher would. Maybe perhaps escaping a submission finish outright instead of using a rope break would be a closer analogy? |
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Mar 14, 2016 0:39:20 GMT -5
Kicking out of a finisher is usually considered a bigger deal. Getting to the ropes during a submission move that's someone's finisher generally isn't seen to de-value that move in the same way that kicking out of a finisher would. Maybe perhaps escaping a submission finish outright instead of using a rope break would be a closer analogy? Yeah, I guess. I'm not sure my answer was what the OP meant, though. |
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El Pollo Guerrera
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Post by El Pollo Guerrera on Mar 14, 2016 1:03:26 GMT -5
You can get out of pin by using a rope break as well... I guess the rope break is the 'easy way out' of avoiding a pin or submission.
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Post by arrogantmodel on Mar 14, 2016 3:09:07 GMT -5
Yeah, if someone just physically untwisted their legs or used strength to get out of a move or whatever, that looks worse.
Big offender of this is people using their "tremendous" leg strength to flip Jericho across the ring when he's trying to apply or is applying the Walls of Jericho.
That would never happen with the LionTamer.
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jmule
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Post by jmule on Mar 14, 2016 6:24:25 GMT -5
Speaking of the figure four, I've never been a real flair fan and admittedly I've really only seen about a dozen or so of his matches.
But out of the matches I've seen I've never seen him win with the figure four!
So how often did "the master" actually score a submission?
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on Mar 14, 2016 9:42:26 GMT -5
Yeah, if someone just physically untwisted their legs or used strength to get out of a move or whatever, that looks worse. Big offender of this is people using their "tremendous" leg strength to flip Jericho across the ring when he's trying to apply or is applying the Walls of Jericho. That would never happen with the LionTamer. To be fair that rarely happens when Jericho has the move locked on. It's usually just when he's in the process of applying the move which is a lot less damaging to the move. |
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Mar 14, 2016 11:53:28 GMT -5
It depends on the promotion. The WWE has basically ruined submission finishers. They seldom work and if they do, the person who tapped is treated like a pussy who can't stand pain.
In WCW, submissions happened a lot and the guy was treated as having no choice but to tap. They were also more protected. Guys would camp out in the figure four, but rarely did people get out of the Texas Cloverleaf, Crossface, Lion Tamer, etc. I cannot think of a single time a guy escaped from the Torture Rack unless they were helped or Luger was selling an injury. Submission finishers were as protected as move finishers. WWE prior to the Attitude Era Resembled this style too.
So in modern WWE, getting out of a submission is like kicking out of a signature. In WCW/Old WWF, getting out of a submission was as impressive as a finisher kick out.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Mar 14, 2016 14:15:07 GMT -5
There is nothing wrong with breaking a finisher if it's not done every other match and the commentators mention how big a deal that is, but in post attitude era wrestling, nothing matters because it's happened so often and the commentary is sub par. I like when a guy who's being pushed as a power guy manages to lift his way out of a submission hold that was applied prematurely or not properly locked in, if it makes sense in the context of the match.
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alred1982
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Post by alred1982 on Mar 17, 2016 16:26:17 GMT -5
One thing the commentary should start playing up is he needs to tap so he can fight another day if he doesn't cam end up injured. It's so stupid amount of times they try to fight it adrs armbar may not look fancy but a armbar can screw you up but wwe don't play to that
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2016 12:36:48 GMT -5
One thing the commentary should start playing up is he needs to tap so he can fight another day if he doesn't cam end up injured. It's so stupid amount of times they try to fight it adrs armbar may not look fancy but a armbar can screw you up but wwe don't play to that They did that in NXT when Joe tapped to the Koji Clutch. Joe knew if he kept fighting it, he'd be messed up the rest of the match. The announcers sold it was well. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2016 13:40:54 GMT -5
If it's built up over a long period of time as "once this hold is on, you do not get out", it can be just as big as kicking out of a finish. The Sharpshooter comes to mind.
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