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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 10:54:01 GMT -5
I don't think there's much benefit to DDP holding Goldberg's first loss. DDP worked best as the scrappy underdog, and singlehandedly beating the toughest guy in WCW makes it hard to believe the odds are ever against him, and it damages Goldberg's toughguy cred from then on, when there was really no reason to have him lose to anyone clean at that point.
I think Nash winning through nefarious means was fine. I agree that Scott Steiner would`ve been alright to.
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Lupin the Third
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Post by Lupin the Third on Apr 27, 2016 23:44:07 GMT -5
"He's sucking it up! PAGE!! PAGE!! HE'S GOT THE DIAMOND CUTTER!!!!"
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lws
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Post by lws on Apr 28, 2016 2:22:35 GMT -5
As a longtime DDP mark, I've always been partial to DDP winning at Halloween Havoc. DDP is a big mark for himself, too, but he's explained pretty well that it works on almost every level. The Diamond Cutter is the shock out of no where killer like always, and DDP is such an everyman underdog figure that it really doesn't hurt anyone to have Goldberg win the title back literally a week or two later and resume his dominance of the show, but now he's shown he can lose and is vulnerable sometimes, adding a new dimension to his character in his loss.
For an alternative route, just someone new. Steiner isn't a bad choice, but you need to speed shit up a bunch if you do it that way, and Scotty was pretty damned volatile at the time, so people tiptoed around him. Imagine Goldberg never ever loses, then Mike Awesome debuts and beats him. Or Bam Bam, whoever. If you wanna go real real new, Sean O'Haire I guess, but that's a lot of faith in him, and Goldberg couldn't just win forever. But the DDP thing is really best case scenario, cause it shows Goldberg has a weakness and can be beaten if he's overwhelmed by something like pure shock (in a metaphorical sense, instead of the literal sense that history went with), but it's not hard for him to turn around and get his win back, in a manner that actually makes both parties look strong considering who they are. The Bret Hart steel plate thing was a great moment that could've been a realistic first loss in a No DQ scenario. Or, you know, have anyone be his first loss in a No DQ scenario, just hopefully don't do it too much like Royal Rumble 94. Of course, since this is WCW they'd probably even have Goldberg's spirit rise from a coffin, so better not even float the idea out there lest someone tells Bischoff and has a time machine.
I also agree Nash wasn't a bad choice, and its just what happened 8 days later that ruins it. But there's options out there.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Apr 28, 2016 2:41:39 GMT -5
Yes, it should have been Jim Neidhart.
*ducks garbage being thrown* AHH!!
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Apr 28, 2016 2:56:22 GMT -5
Since they were building to a storyline where Hall was getting back together with Nash, with Hall doing the tazer attack behind Kevin's back, they should have eventually revealed that Nash was in on it, and they become the top anti-heels in the promotion, instead of handing the belt to Hogan on a silver platter. Have the rest of the Wolfpac leave the group in disgust and have the Outsiders live up to their name, keeping the title away from WCW and the other factions. Nash is credible enough to be a dominant heel champion, with Hall and his tazer as an insurance policy if it looks like he's not going to retain.
Instantly, there would be money in the Goldberg rematch where he rights the wrong and gets his title back, but in the meantime you have programs awaiting with former Wolfpac member Lex Luger, soon to be returning former Wolfpac members Savage and Sting, President of WCW Ric Flair, and perhaps WCW gets so desperate to get the title off Nash that they turn to the one guy who can match Nash's nastiness, Hollywood Hogan. Hogan would get so much more out of the bizarre scenario of WCW turning to the leader of the nWo than he got in the Fingerpoke nonsense.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 3:01:14 GMT -5
If they hadn't had him join the Wolfpack and turn all goofy as f*** (seriously I loved it at the time but I cringe a bit now when I rewatch it), a Sting vs Goldberg face vs face match could have been huge. Think about how great that would have been if they hadn't bungled the Sting situation so badly at Starrcade '97 and onwards. That loner asskicking Sting versus the undefeated wrecking machine Goldberg in late '98 or early '99. Huge huge money.
But with the way things played out, I'd have been fine with Nash or DDP.
EDIT: I do have to admit this is most-likely 100% the Sting mark in me.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Apr 28, 2016 3:46:18 GMT -5
If they hadn't had him join the Wolfpack and turn all goofy as f*** (seriously I loved it at the time but I cringe a bit now when I rewatch it), a Sting vs Goldberg face vs face match could have been huge. Think about how great that would have been if they hadn't bungled the Sting situation so badly at Starrcade '97 and onwards. That loner asskicking Sting versus the undefeated wrecking machine Goldberg in late '98 or early '99. Huge huge money. But with the way things played out, I'd have been fine with Nash or DDP. EDIT: I do have to admit this is most-likely 100% the Sting mark in me. I hadn't considered Sting-Goldberg in '98. I actually like the idea of Sting-Goldberg at Starrcade a lot. Wouldn't have taken much to make him hot again either. Give him the deciding pinfall/submission at War Games, give him a big win at Halloween Havoc, have him win World War 3, and there you have Sting with his groove back ready to be Goldberg's toughest challenge.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 4:34:26 GMT -5
If they hadn't had him join the Wolfpack and turn all goofy as f*** (seriously I loved it at the time but I cringe a bit now when I rewatch it), a Sting vs Goldberg face vs face match could have been huge. Think about how great that would have been if they hadn't bungled the Sting situation so badly at Starrcade '97 and onwards. That loner asskicking Sting versus the undefeated wrecking machine Goldberg in late '98 or early '99. Huge huge money. But with the way things played out, I'd have been fine with Nash or DDP. EDIT: I do have to admit this is most-likely 100% the Sting mark in me. I hadn't considered Sting-Goldberg in '98. I actually like the idea of Sting-Goldberg at Starrcade a lot. Wouldn't have taken much to make him hot again either. Give him the deciding pinfall/submission at War Games, give him a big win at Halloween Havoc, have him win World War 3, and there you have Sting with his groove back ready to be Goldberg's toughest challenge. It would have been great. Granted it my scenario you have to rebook an entire year, but 1997 was all about Sting. 1998 was all about Goldberg. If you could keep them apart as opponents and have Starrcade '98 as a first time showdown between the two biggest forces in the company? It would have been massive. Those two had tremendous aura at the time that few others could even touch. Short of stealing the Undertaker from WWE, I think that would have been the biggest money match imaginable. Then you've got the epic rematch ready for whatever show you want to boost in 1999.
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Apr 28, 2016 8:32:00 GMT -5
Nash, DDP, or Bret. Argument could be made to even end the streak at Havoc 98 man the crowd was ready for Page that night. The crowd was hot for Nash winning; some make it out like it was Verne booking Greg to win the world title. It's not like Nash was even in the WCW title picture from 1996-1998 or was like a "LOL CENAWINS" deal. He was on the outside of the picture for his entire run at that point because nWo had the belt and he couldn't challenge. I mean Hall challenged for the WCW title before Nash I do believe. So it was new-ish, but then they did the fingerpoke and all excitement was lost. no to Scott Steiner. He wasn't ready until Summer 2000 and it would be impossible to keep the streak going that long. That would be insanity; maybe they keep the streak going until Bash at the Beach 1999 at the absolute max and Scott was still midcard in 99. Your last point touches on something interesting. The "Goldberg should've been an undefeated silent badass for years" idea sounds WAY better on paper than it would have been in practice. If Goldberg beats Nash, then what? In a year and a half he would have beaten Nash, Hall, Hogan, Sting, DDP, The Giant, most of the NWO, the entire Flock, and more clean. Outside of a feud with Scott Steiner (which I agree would have been too early), and guys like Luger and Bret Hart (who had been in the US Title scene the year before), he's basically out of opponents (and no, unlike other revisionist history says, you can't trot out comedy midcarder Chris Jericho to take on Goldberg in a serious feud when Steve Austin vs. The Rock is on the other channel). As it was, even with the loss, they hardly used Goldberg in 1999 when he was around because of how difficult he was to book. They were starting to lose the war and Goldberg was too over for the Jerry Flynns and Fit Finleys of the world to be perceived as interesting opponents. He had to win and win impressively so you can't put him against other main eventers every week because it would hurt their credibility to lose so decisively. So he's left beating Meng and Bam Bam Bigelow over and over to the point were these two, who had been upper midcarders for a decade, had their credibility so badly damaged that they end up in the comedy hardcore division. If he beats Nash, basically the only compelling feud left for him in wrestling is an imaginary feud with Steve Austin - which they tried to get buzz around by having Goldberg call him out on Leno. If you think Brock Lesnar is too strong to book now, Goldberg was that way in 1999 and would've been even worse if undefeated. At least with the Nash loss, there was at least the belief that there was a chance that Goldberg could get screwed and put some drama back into his matches. And honestly, having him lose to Nash as they did with the idea of having Goldberg tear through the newly reformed NWO was not a bad idea. It makes Goldberg legitimately wronged and makes the idea of him running back through the roster for a second time something you want to see. Of course, they should've known that Nash and Hogan couldn't be trusted to do things the right way, but I think the reasoning behind it was correct.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Apr 28, 2016 13:06:53 GMT -5
I get that DDP losing at HH worked out for him, but winning a rematch at Starrcade would have been dope.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Apr 28, 2016 13:25:31 GMT -5
Nash was extremely over at that point and the issue I don't think was that he did it. If the figure poke of doom didn't happen and Nash remained champion, nobody would be complaining. Honestly the streak was going to end and the way it did made sense because it wasn't clean so Goldberg lost nothing until all the stupid post match stuff to for some reason needing to make Hogan champion again killed it. Had it went Nash turned heel but remain champion but made Goldberg had to beat Hall and Bam Bam to get the rematch kind of deal, it make sense.
If not Nash it should have been DDP. DDP push Goldberg to his limits like no other and came close. They could gone DDP wins World War 3 instead of being US champion again with Hart. Get a rematch at Starcade after getting another shot. DDP came so close but this times gets over the hump.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 28, 2016 13:40:29 GMT -5
Brock Lesnar... wait wrong streak...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 14:34:36 GMT -5
The Giant.
-The fact that WCW fed the guy to Goldberg right away was such a stupid move in my mind. I know he was talking about leaving, but offer a big contract and slowly build to Giant vs Goldberg. -Start by having Giant dominate that nWo/wolfpac battle royal and keep Goldberg out of the frigging match. Have Goldberg defend against Meng or something or team up with Rick Steiner to face Steiner/Buff. -After the match, The Giant announces that he is longer apart of the nWo and his own man. After being the muscle in the Dungeon/the nWo and a follower for team WCW, he is now on his own. -Have him beat a big name at Fall Brawl and like Piper and have Giant put him on the shelf. Have him chokeslam Warrior out of WCW after Havoc and let him decimate the field at World War 3. -Have him eliminate like 15-20 guys and throw out some big names in the process. -Don't book the match at Starrcade, book it for that big NBC special and since the Hawks aren't playing at the Georgia Dome, do it at The Dome. Have Goldberg/DDP II headline and maybe bring Yoko in for a battle of the monsters match at Starrcade and have Giant go over strong. -WCW starts building to the Dome battle the next night, and keep the two guys away from each other until the match happens. Tease it, but have security and wrestlers break it up before the Dome match. -When the dome comes, book it about as even as you can make it but don't make it a long match. Maybe twelve minutes not counting entrances. Have Goldberg wear Giant down with a kicks to the leg, but can't get him up for the Jackhammer. Goldberg finally drops him with a big move and looks ready to hit the spear. Giant is slowly getting back up in the corner, Goldberg charges for the spear but Giant counters it with a sidekick to the head. Goldberg shakes it off, charges again but Giant grabs him by the throat, lifts him high in the air and drops him with a killer chokeslam. Pin him 1,2,3 clean as a whistle in-front of a shocked crowd.
Goldberg gets the belt back at Slamboree or even The Great American Bash if you really want to build up him chasing the belt. He of course gets Giant up for the Jackhammer for the win.
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Sephiroth
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Post by Sephiroth on Apr 29, 2016 9:23:18 GMT -5
I would like to add that I find the claim that they "protected" Goldberg in the loss to be totally insincere. If that was their intent, they did a lousy ass job of it, the end of that match was a convoluted mess . If they really wanted to protect Golberg, here is how it should have gone down:
Nash and Goldberg mix it up in the ring. Nash hits Goldberg with a powerbomb, Goldberg kicks out. Ref gets distracted and Disco Inferno hits the ring-he gets destroyed instantly. Nash and Goldberg mixed it up again. Nash hits Goldberg with a second powerbomb, Goldberg kicks out again. Bam Bam Bigelow hits the ring, gets in a few shots, and then gets tossed out as well. At some point the ref gets KO'd. Golderg hits Nash with the spear and jackhammer and covers him, but the ref is out cold. Scott Hall hits the ring and nails Golberg with some kind of weapon (steel chair to the head, powder to the eyes, something other than that idiotic cattle prod). Goldberg stumbles backwards into the arms of an awaiting Nash, who hits him with a third powerbomb. The ref recovers just in time to make the three count, and Goldberg kicks out the instant after his hand slaps the canvas for the three. Nash takes the belt and walks to the top of the ramp, where the rest of the Wolf Pack come out and start trying to tell him what happened, gesturing and shouting. Nash looks astonished. And the PPV closes out with the image of Nash on the ramp looking pensive, as if uncomfortable with the unclean nature of the win, and the image of Goldberg's face looking furiuos on the tron behind him. THAT would have made Golberg still look like an unstoppable badass even with the end of the streak.
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