Welfare Willis
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Posts: 44,259
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Post by Welfare Willis on Jun 21, 2016 11:26:18 GMT -5
Good news for Cody Rhodes, Ryback, and Adam Rose... or should I say new TNA wrestlers Moonlit, Wheatfront, and Bram's new sidekick Wifey McPunchdrug.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jun 21, 2016 12:06:33 GMT -5
Who? And im against the idea that having previously worked in WWE should disqualify someone from working elsewhere. So once a talent leaves WWE, they should never wrestle again because no promotion should ever hire "WWE rejects"? There are guys that spent some time in WWE that, as soon as they went elsewhere, managed to become even bigger successes and helped promotions far more than what they actually did in WWE. I mean, who would have thought that Mark Jindrak would be one of Mexico's biggest names? Just because you worked in WWE doesn't mean that should be your biggest success. The argument isn't "You shouldn't bring in ex-WWE guys" but instead "You shouldn't bring in ex-WWE guys and make them the focal point of your company because they were on WWE programming". A guy like Rhyno is an exception because, after 2001, he was a complete afterthought and should have become a key guy in TNA's main event (son of a bitch had to work a battle royal, a hardcore match, and a lengthy title match all in one night, and was loved for doing it), and EC3 is another exception because he didn't actually do anything in WWE except be part of that endless NXT season, but the issue is more of bringing in midcarders who didn't do much in spite of being on programming for 5+ years and suddenly deciding they are a higher priority than your own, homegrown talent. Kurt Angle is one thing (though him defeating Samoa Joe right from the gate was a really bad idea), but guys like Orlando Jordan, Mr. Anderson, Sean Morley, Chavo Guerrero... what makes you think they should be higher than an AJ Styles or Christopher Daniels? Because they spent time doing random stuff in the big brand? If you think about it, "TNA Originals" (i.e. guys who made their name in TNA instead of coming from somewhere else where they were a name) have had the worst time in the company because it seems that Dixie is enamored with the latest "flavor of the month" droput. See what'll happen when Alex Riley shows up. Orlando Jordan and Val Venis? No. But Mr. Anderson was somewhat over in WWE so that kind of merits some sort of push, and Chavo Guerrero, while far from a "legend" is still a solid veteran hand. Gail Kim IS more known for her TNA work than her WWE work, yet people bitch incessantly about her push. Alex Riley falls into that same category of EC3 of having accomplished Jack shit in WWE. Enhancement squash matches were getting more time than Alex Riley matches; if Riley just got to do a nothing face vs face match like Mr. Cherry Bomb did against James Storm at Slammiversary, that would still be a step up for him. There are no more homegrown talents in TNA except Abyss and everyone seems to agree that he's old and he sucks anyway.
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Post by corndog on Jun 21, 2016 12:13:29 GMT -5
Honestly, AJ could have knocked Dixie much more than he did. Still how stupid does Dixie look now after alienating the people that got TNA there in AJ, Daniels, Kaz and Samoa Joe. Now two of them are prominent stars in WWE with AJ on the main roster and Samoa Joe as NXT Champion. While Kaz and Daniels are the current ROH tag team champions. I'm just glad to see them all doing well and actually getting paid. Still wish Daniels would come to NXT, but he has pretty good gig now.
It will be interesting to hear if Dixie replies to AJ's podcast and I am sure it will be very well thought and complimentary.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jun 21, 2016 12:14:24 GMT -5
Gail Kim IS more known for her TNA work than her WWE work, yet people bitch incessantly about her push. What people complain about with her is that she is pushed way above EVERY single woman on the roster after she went back to TNA. and doesn't show any vulnerability at all even against NEW Monster heels that need to gain heat. and 'there are no big TNA originals left'... you forgot James Storm... but more importantly. Yeah, because Dixie pushed them out by not paying them what they are worth and putting WWE nobodies over them... that's the point AJ was making.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 21, 2016 12:19:45 GMT -5
Gail Kim IS more known for her TNA work than her WWE work, yet people bitch incessantly about her push. What people complain about with her is that she is pushed way above EVERY single woman on the roster after she went back to TNA. and doesn't show any vulnerability at all even against NEW Monster heels that need to gain heat. and 'there are no big TNA originals left'... you forgot James Storm... but more importantly. Yeah, because Dixie pushed them out by not paying them what they are worth and putting WWE nobodies over them... that's the point AJ was making. Add on to the fact Gail left TNA to get the WWE money and returned to TNA for all the glory and spotlight. You can only watch her beat so many new heels by roll up. Also the crazy stat of her having a what 80% win rate in her many years of TNA. Ridiculous. & yes that's the point AJ was making. You have no TNA originals because they were pushed to the back burner for new talent. Now they are going to other places and being given proper respect for their abilities while must of the guys pushed over them before hardly or don't even wrestle anymore. Hell, they are hardly on TV if anything.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jun 21, 2016 12:32:49 GMT -5
To the people complaining about Cody Rhodes, Ryback, Riley, (none of whom have even signed with TNA yet) etc. if any of those guys show up in TNA, it's because they got pushed out of WWE to make room for those guys who left TNA. They have a right to be more respected too.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jun 21, 2016 12:50:53 GMT -5
There are guys that spent some time in WWE that, as soon as they went elsewhere, managed to become even bigger successes and helped promotions far more than what they actually did in WWE. I mean, who would have thought that Mark Jindrak would be one of Mexico's biggest names? Just because you worked in WWE doesn't mean that should be your biggest success. The argument isn't "You shouldn't bring in ex-WWE guys" but instead "You shouldn't bring in ex-WWE guys and make them the focal point of your company because they were on WWE programming". A guy like Rhyno is an exception because, after 2001, he was a complete afterthought and should have become a key guy in TNA's main event (son of a bitch had to work a battle royal, a hardcore match, and a lengthy title match all in one night, and was loved for doing it), and EC3 is another exception because he didn't actually do anything in WWE except be part of that endless NXT season, but the issue is more of bringing in midcarders who didn't do much in spite of being on programming for 5+ years and suddenly deciding they are a higher priority than your own, homegrown talent. Kurt Angle is one thing (though him defeating Samoa Joe right from the gate was a really bad idea), but guys like Orlando Jordan, Mr. Anderson, Sean Morley, Chavo Guerrero... what makes you think they should be higher than an AJ Styles or Christopher Daniels? Because they spent time doing random stuff in the big brand? If you think about it, "TNA Originals" (i.e. guys who made their name in TNA instead of coming from somewhere else where they were a name) have had the worst time in the company because it seems that Dixie is enamored with the latest "flavor of the month" droput. See what'll happen when Alex Riley shows up. Orlando Jordan and Val Venis? No. But Mr. Anderson was somewhat over in WWE so that kind of merits some sort of push, and Chavo Guerrero, while far from a "legend" is still a solid veteran hand. Gail Kim IS more known for her TNA work than her WWE work, yet people bitch incessantly about her push. Alex Riley falls into that same category of EC3 of having accomplished Jack shit in WWE. Enhancement squash matches were getting more time than Alex Riley matches; if Riley just got to do a nothing face vs face match like Mr. Cherry Bomb did against James Storm at Slammiversary, that would still be a step up for him. There are no more homegrown talents in TNA except Abyss and everyone seems to agree that he's old and he sucks anyway. Please do not put Riley in the same category as EC3. EC3 worked for everything he had and still got fired, Riley was given opportunity after opportunity and he f***ed it up. Not even getting repackaged made the fans care about Riley. Also unlike Riley, EC3 has talent.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jun 21, 2016 12:56:18 GMT -5
Orlando Jordan and Val Venis? No. But Mr. Anderson was somewhat over in WWE so that kind of merits some sort of push, and Chavo Guerrero, while far from a "legend" is still a solid veteran hand. Gail Kim IS more known for her TNA work than her WWE work, yet people bitch incessantly about her push. Alex Riley falls into that same category of EC3 of having accomplished Jack shit in WWE. Enhancement squash matches were getting more time than Alex Riley matches; if Riley just got to do a nothing face vs face match like Mr. Cherry Bomb did against James Storm at Slammiversary, that would still be a step up for him. There are no more homegrown talents in TNA except Abyss and everyone seems to agree that he's old and he sucks anyway. Please do not put Riley in the same category as EC3. EC3 worked for everything he had and still got fired, Riley was given opportunity after opportunity and he f***ed it up. Not even getting repackaged made the fans care about Riley. Riley was given ONE opportunity, crashed and burned because he was still green (because he wasn't given the proper chance to actually practice his craft and came up in a time where talent development pretty much sucked in general, that's why WWE is going after Indy talents now in the first place), and then they stopped trying and buried him beneath the earth, even under all the other lower carders. Even their "repackage" of him was lazy af. You can't call his feud with Owens an "opportunity" when it was basically just glorified squash matches. And they barely tried with his heel run; Riley's matches were getting less time than actual jobber squashes. There was pretty much nothing to f*** up. Gail Kim IS more known for her TNA work than her WWE work, yet people bitch incessantly about her push. What people complain about with her is that she is pushed way above EVERY single woman on the roster after she went back to TNA. and doesn't show any vulnerability at all even against NEW Monster heels that need to gain heat. and 'there are no big TNA originals left'... you forgot James Storm... but more importantly. Yeah, because Dixie pushed them out by not paying them what they are worth and putting WWE nobodies over them... that's the point AJ was making. Yeah, I forgot James Storm, but then again people are too busy laughing at him just for still being there instead of demanding that he be pushed
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 13:02:18 GMT -5
it's because they got pushed out of WWE to make room for those guys who left TNA. Pft, what? Riley was probably cut because they didn't have any real use for him between NXT being cluttered and him being a bad commentator, Ryback is leaving due to dissatisfaction over pay inequality, and Cody seems to have had a job for life if wanted but he didn't like the way he was being marginalized - far moreso for rising NXT talent than imports for TNA - and forced into a shitty gimmick that was hiding his talents so he opted to leave to show his stuff on the indy scene. What does TNA have to do with any of those?
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Push R Truth
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Posts: 39,309
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Post by Push R Truth on Jun 21, 2016 13:03:13 GMT -5
Alex Riley is replacing Mickie James and AJ Lee in my board related nightmares.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jun 21, 2016 13:03:52 GMT -5
Please do not put Riley in the same category as EC3. EC3 worked for everything he had and still got fired, Riley was given opportunity after opportunity and he f***ed it up. Not even getting repackaged made the fans care about Riley. Riley was given ONE opportunity, crashed and burned because he was still green (because he wasn't given the proper chance to actually practice his craft and came up in a time where talent development pretty much sucked in general, that's why WWE is going after Indy talents now in the first place), and then they stopped trying and buried him beneath the earth, even under all the other lower carders. Even their "repackage" of him was lazy af. You can't call his feud with Owens an "opportunity" when it was basically just glorified squash matches. And they barely tried with his heel run; Riley's matches were getting less time than actual jobber squashes. There was pretty much nothing to f*** up. What people complain about with her is that she is pushed way above EVERY single woman on the roster after she went back to TNA. and doesn't show any vulnerability at all even against NEW Monster heels that need to gain heat. and 'there are no big TNA originals left'... you forgot James Storm... but more importantly. Yeah, because Dixie pushed them out by not paying them what they are worth and putting WWE nobodies over them... that's the point AJ was making. Yeah, I forgot James Storm, but then again people are too busy laughing at him just for still being there instead of demanding that he be pushed All of those things you're saying are opportunities, he was given tv time and if they didn't amount to anything it was the performer's fault, in this case Alex Riley. He screwed up not the company. He was kept employed for years for doing nothing. The wwe doesn't owe the talent anything, they gave them a chance to succeed and its up to them if they get it right or not,
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jun 21, 2016 13:10:17 GMT -5
Alex Riley is replacing Mickie James and AJ Lee in my board related nightmares. Don't blame me. I laid out a post mentioning numerous former WWE talent and someone decided to focus fire on the one that hasn't even set foot in TNA yet.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jun 21, 2016 13:12:59 GMT -5
What people complain about with her is that she is pushed way above EVERY single woman on the roster after she went back to TNA. and doesn't show any vulnerability at all even against NEW Monster heels that need to gain heat. and 'there are no big TNA originals left'... you forgot James Storm... but more importantly. Yeah, because Dixie pushed them out by not paying them what they are worth and putting WWE nobodies over them... that's the point AJ was making. Yeah, I forgot James Storm, but then again people are too busy laughing at him just for still being there instead of demanding that he be pushed You completely ignored the main point I was making there, everyone left because TNA WERE NOT PAYING THEM AND MARGINALIZING THEM FOR NON HOMEGROWN TALENT.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jun 21, 2016 13:22:52 GMT -5
Riley was given ONE opportunity, crashed and burned because he was still green (because he wasn't given the proper chance to actually practice his craft and came up in a time where talent development pretty much sucked in general, that's why WWE is going after Indy talents now in the first place), and then they stopped trying and buried him beneath the earth, even under all the other lower carders. Even their "repackage" of him was lazy af. You can't call his feud with Owens an "opportunity" when it was basically just glorified squash matches. And they barely tried with his heel run; Riley's matches were getting less time than actual jobber squashes. There was pretty much nothing to f*** up. Yeah, I forgot James Storm, but then again people are too busy laughing at him just for still being there instead of demanding that he be pushed All of those things you're saying are opportunities, he was given tv time and if they didn't amount to anything it was the performer's fault, in this case Alex Riley. He screwed up not the company. He was kept employed for years for doing nothing. The wwe doesn't owe the talent anything, they gave them a chance to succeed and its up to them if they get it right or not, Also he had a bunch of major botches under his belt. The biggest one is of course Botching "stay in the ring and don't fall out" during the Royal Rumble, screwing up how Cena was supposed to be eliminated (AKA screwing up the setup for the Main Event Feud for Wrestlemania) and they had to quickly come up with something on the fly.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jun 21, 2016 13:33:08 GMT -5
All of those things you're saying are opportunities, he was given tv time and if they didn't amount to anything it was the performer's fault, in this case Alex Riley. He screwed up not the company. He was kept employed for years for doing nothing. The wwe doesn't owe the talent anything, they gave them a chance to succeed and its up to them if they get it right or not, Also he had a bunch of major botches under his belt. The biggest one is of course Botching "stay in the ring and don't fall out" during the Royal Rumble, screwing up how Cena was supposed to be eliminated (AKA screwing up the setup for the Main Event Feud for Wrestlemania) and they had to quickly come up with something on the fly. Yes, but this was before they actually pushed him. I was talking more about everything after he lost his push. Yes, they stopped featuring him prominently because he had some botches, but once he stopped botching (read. Once the problem was corrected), they chose not to do anything with him, not even letting him be a "He likes having fun Maggle" joke character or Wheel of Aggression fodder. To try to stay on topic (I wasn't trying to start an "Alex Riley" argument, but people are singling him out of my earlier post), just because he failed in WWE doesn't mean he shouldn't be allowed to continue his career elsewhere. Dude had it so bad that even the shithole that is current TNA is a step up for him.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jun 21, 2016 16:22:45 GMT -5
The only reason TNA didn't hire every one of the guys from WWE's recent release burst and push the entire card down to fill room is because they don't have the money to. TNA's obsession with the faintest of perceived name value an ex-WWE star can give is worse than what you'll find in the shindies, and it's a lot of why the company is in the state it is now both business-wise, and in not being the alternative product it wanted so hard to be and for a little while in fact was.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jun 21, 2016 18:15:53 GMT -5
All of those things you're saying are opportunities, he was given tv time and if they didn't amount to anything it was the performer's fault, in this case Alex Riley. He screwed up not the company. He was kept employed for years for doing nothing. The wwe doesn't owe the talent anything, they gave them a chance to succeed and its up to them if they get it right or not, Also he had a bunch of major botches under his belt. The biggest one is of course Botching "stay in the ring and don't fall out" during the Royal Rumble, screwing up how Cena was supposed to be eliminated (AKA screwing up the setup for the Main Event Feud for Wrestlemania) and they had to quickly come up with something on the fly. f*** I just read about that, now I get why Cena disliked him so much and his subsequent burial, I wonder why they didn't fire his ass after that.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Jun 21, 2016 19:14:48 GMT -5
Alex Riley falls into that same category of EC3 of having accomplished Jack shit in WWE. Enhancement squash matches were getting more time than Alex Riley matches; if Riley just got to do a nothing face vs face match like Mr. Cherry Bomb did against James Storm at Slammiversary, that would still be a step up for him. There are no more homegrown talents in TNA except Abyss and everyone seems to agree that he's old and he sucks anyway. EC3 was a great hire, damn near everybody here immediately pegged EC3 as a miss for WWE when they fired him, and said it was a smart hire when TNA hired him. EC3 had the makeup of a future star, just in his time on NXT, but DeMott hated him and buried him to everybody who would listen.
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Post by corndog on Jun 21, 2016 22:22:00 GMT -5
Alex Riley is replacing Mickie James and AJ Lee in my board related nightmares. I don't know if I can handle another Mickie James/AJ Lee. Do you really think there are people here blindly in love with Alex Riley?
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 21, 2016 22:33:06 GMT -5
If the guy who was pretty much literally the backbone of TNA says that WWE guys and other tv guys got undue focus every time out regardless of merit, I'd tend to believe him.
How is it even arguable when that dude is saying: "Yeah, this is how it was." ?
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