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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Jun 12, 2017 23:48:09 GMT -5
And even at that you can say he had no heart, that's legit to say that but to call him soft and say he rode a title is unfair to him. He didn't earn it. He went to a team that beat his OKC team rather than be a man, a leader, and put Westbrook in his place in crunch time. But he's not entirely blameless in the equation either. I also blame the fans and the sports media who make it seem like a player isn't great if he doesn't win a ring. I think of greats like Pete Maravich, Dominique Wilkins, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Steve Nash, Reggie Miller, Patrick Ewing, and Barkley who played their entire NBA career and never won a ring. They didn't try to join a rival team that beat them and take the easy road out. KD is a soft coward who deserves no respect in my opinion. So that whole Malone to the Lakers, Nash to the Lakers, and Barkley (who is still my favorite player) to the Rockets is just forgotten to you.
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Post by AwamoriRock on Jun 12, 2017 23:48:50 GMT -5
The reason I don't get on the whole KD to Warriors thing is because, outside of personal preference for where he goes (which is totally fine for any fan to have), it's just a career decision and I see plenty of basketball reasons for him to feel frustrated with OKC, but the way it happened is what should remain a viable strategy for all NBA teams. Every NBA team should be able to say "let's try and hit on as many draft picks as we can, and hopefully we can get an impact free agent." The Warriors drafted successfully, and obviously were mindful of salaries and whatnot to get KD. It feels unfair because of how the pieces match, but...that's a strategy every team should have available to them. I disagree with everything riseofsetian1981 said, but he's right about RINGZ culture pushing stars toward looking at easier routes.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 12, 2017 23:50:25 GMT -5
And even at that you can say he had no heart, that's legit to say that but to call him soft and say he rode a title is unfair to him. He didn't earn it. He went to a team that beat his OKC team rather than be a man, a leader, and put Westbrook in his place in crunch time. But he's not entirely blameless in the equation either. I also blame the fans and the sports media who make it seem like a player isn't great if he doesn't win a ring. I think of greats like Pete Maravich, Dominique Wilkins, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Steve Nash, Reggie Miller, Patrick Ewing, and Barkley who played their entire NBA career and never won a ring. They didn't try to join a rival team that beat them and take the easy road out. KD is a soft coward who deserves no respect in my opinion. He did earn it. A lot of those players did not just finish their career without a ring for lack of trying. LBJ said himself that it don't matter, at the end of the day you have to call him a champion. He understands this mindset himself because he went through this same thing in Miami. He lead this team, point blank. That's really end of story there. Did he have a lot more talent, yes but Lebron or anyone on that team could stop him. Do I still consider him soft for the move to Golden State, yes but i'm not going to knock him for doing something for himself. Rings are all that matter and it's engrained into the league
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jun 12, 2017 23:52:24 GMT -5
He didn't earn it. He went to a team that beat his OKC team rather than be a man, a leader, and put Westbrook in his place in crunch time. But he's not entirely blameless in the equation either. I also blame the fans and the sports media who make it seem like a player isn't great if he doesn't win a ring. I think of greats like Pete Maravich, Dominique Wilkins, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Steve Nash, Reggie Miller, Patrick Ewing, and Barkley who played their entire NBA career and never won a ring. They didn't try to join a rival team that beat them and take the easy road out. KD is a soft coward who deserves no respect in my opinion. So that whole Malone to the Lakers, Nash to the Lakers, and Barkley (who is still my favorite player) to the Rockets is just forgotten to you. They were at the tail end of their careers. Your statement would definitely ring true if they were in their primes. I'd even back you up if it was Phoenix Suns MVP Nash going to the Lakers, I'd even back you up if it was Sixers and Phoenix Suns Barkley going to the Rockets. But Malone, Nash, and Barkley were a shell of their former selves and didn't have that necessary lift in their game to propel those respective teams to a championship.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 12, 2017 23:53:02 GMT -5
Excuse me, Tye Lue is at the TOP OF THE F****ING LIST. He got out coached by two different people in Brown and Kerr. He has no control of the team and relies too much on LBJ and Kyrie going one on one. Kerr took chances with Clark and Mccall while you got a hyper player like Derrick Williams sitting on the bench or James Jones sitting on the bench They need a Chris Paul like point guard and more intense athletic center. Someone like Tyson Chandler would be perfect for them. He'll show up, defend the paint, isn't intimidated, and will grab boards and score when needed. Chris Paul type point guard couldn't work tho. LBJ needs the ball way too much. Kyrie is perfect for LBJ but he needs to learn to be a playmaker and better defender. Kyries full value is in his tremendous offense. A younger Chandler would of been the perfect starter for them but I think he can still help this team. Sadly, for them his contract is massive and I doubt Phx will swap contract for contract Frye/Chandler straight up. I think they need a two center rotation like Golden State
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jun 12, 2017 23:53:49 GMT -5
He didn't earn it. He went to a team that beat his OKC team rather than be a man, a leader, and put Westbrook in his place in crunch time. But he's not entirely blameless in the equation either. I also blame the fans and the sports media who make it seem like a player isn't great if he doesn't win a ring. I think of greats like Pete Maravich, Dominique Wilkins, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Steve Nash, Reggie Miller, Patrick Ewing, and Barkley who played their entire NBA career and never won a ring. They didn't try to join a rival team that beat them and take the easy road out. KD is a soft coward who deserves no respect in my opinion. He did earn it. A lot of those players did not just finish their career without a ring for lack of trying. LBJ said himself that it don't matter, at the end of the day you have to call him a champion. He understands this mindset himself because he went through this same thing in Miami. He lead this team, point blank. That's really end of story there. Did he have a lot more talent, yes but Lebron or anyone on that team could stop him. Do I still consider him soft for the move to Golden State, yes but i'm not going to knock him for doing something for himself. Rings are all that matter and it's engrained into the league Rings matter, but it's tainted and he didn't lead a team. He went to a team that didn't even need him and won a championship without him, he went to a team that knocked out his former team after being up 3-1. No it's not earned it's soft, cowardly, and has an asterisk. I don't deny the man has talent but he'll never be respected because he took the cowards way out rather than standing his ground and being a leader to OKC.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 12, 2017 23:54:17 GMT -5
So that whole Malone to the Lakers, Nash to the Lakers, and Barkley (who is still my favorite player) to the Rockets is just forgotten to you. They were at the tail end of their careers. Your statement would definitely ring true if they were in their primes. I'd even back you up if it was Phoenix Suns MVP Nash going to the Lakers, I'd even back you up if it was Sixers and Phoenix Suns Barkley going to the Rockets. But Malone, Nash, and Barkley were a shell of their former selves and didn't have that necessary lift in their game to propel those respective teams to a championship. But you said those guys never won a ring like it was a badge of honor. Every guy wants to win a ring and old school mentality was you don't try until you are out your prime but now that doesn't matter
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jun 12, 2017 23:54:46 GMT -5
They need a Chris Paul like point guard and more intense athletic center. Someone like Tyson Chandler would be perfect for them. He'll show up, defend the paint, isn't intimidated, and will grab boards and score when needed. Chris Paul type point guard couldn't work tho. LBJ needs the ball way too much. Kyrie is perfect for LBJ but he needs to learn to be a playmaker and better defender. Kyries full value is in his tremendous offense. A younger Chandler would of been the perfect starter for them but I think he can still help this team. Sadly, for them his contract is massive and I doubt Phx will swap contract for contract Frye/Chandler straight up. I think they need a two center rotation like Golden State Being a playmaker isn't Kyrie's game though, that's why I suggested Chris Paul or someone like a John Wall. Kyrie is too shoot happy and is a liability on defense.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 12, 2017 23:55:18 GMT -5
He did earn it. A lot of those players did not just finish their career without a ring for lack of trying. LBJ said himself that it don't matter, at the end of the day you have to call him a champion. He understands this mindset himself because he went through this same thing in Miami. He lead this team, point blank. That's really end of story there. Did he have a lot more talent, yes but Lebron or anyone on that team could stop him. Do I still consider him soft for the move to Golden State, yes but i'm not going to knock him for doing something for himself. Rings are all that matter and it's engrained into the league Rings matter, but it's tainted and he didn't lead a team. He went to a team that didn't even need him and won a championship without him, he went to a team that knocked out his former team after being up 3-1. No it's not earned it's soft, cowardly, and has an asterisk. I don't deny the man has talent but he'll never be respected because he took the cowards way out rather than standing his ground and being a leader to OKC. A tainted ring is still a ring If KD goes back to OKC and wins a ring, will it mean more like LBJ in Cleveland, yes. But it's still a ring and a notch in his belt
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jun 12, 2017 23:56:16 GMT -5
They were at the tail end of their careers. Your statement would definitely ring true if they were in their primes. I'd even back you up if it was Phoenix Suns MVP Nash going to the Lakers, I'd even back you up if it was Sixers and Phoenix Suns Barkley going to the Rockets. But Malone, Nash, and Barkley were a shell of their former selves and didn't have that necessary lift in their game to propel those respective teams to a championship. But you said those guys never won a ring like it was a badge of honor. Every guy wants to win a ring and old school mentality was you don't try until you are out your prime but now that doesn't matter Those guys would say "I would've never joined Jordan, Bird, or Magic. I wanted to beat them." Going to a team that prevented your team from winning a championship was considered insulting and cowardly to them. To be fair, say if KD went to the Finals last year and lost, but ended up going to Golden State? I would've respected that more than what he ended up doing.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jun 12, 2017 23:57:33 GMT -5
Rings matter, but it's tainted and he didn't lead a team. He went to a team that didn't even need him and won a championship without him, he went to a team that knocked out his former team after being up 3-1. No it's not earned it's soft, cowardly, and has an asterisk. I don't deny the man has talent but he'll never be respected because he took the cowards way out rather than standing his ground and being a leader to OKC. A tainted ring is still a ring If KD goes back to OKC and wins a ring, will it mean more like LBJ in Cleveland, yes. But it's still a ring and a notch in his belt You're not wrong, a tainted ring is still a ring for sure. But him going back to OKC and winning a ring there won't clean his legacy. LeBron brought a ring to a team that has known nothing but losing, being made fun of, and never being taken seriously. The differences between the two is apples and oranges.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 12, 2017 23:58:33 GMT -5
Chris Paul type point guard couldn't work tho. LBJ needs the ball way too much. Kyrie is perfect for LBJ but he needs to learn to be a playmaker and better defender. Kyries full value is in his tremendous offense. A younger Chandler would of been the perfect starter for them but I think he can still help this team. Sadly, for them his contract is massive and I doubt Phx will swap contract for contract Frye/Chandler straight up. I think they need a two center rotation like Golden State Being a playmaker isn't Kyrie's game though, that's why I suggested Chris Paul or someone like a John Wall. Kyrie is too shoot happy and is a liability on defense. That's the thing tho because Kyrie can score without the ball. Chris Paul and John Wall aren't as effective without the rock. They need a perfect person who can dish when they got the bal while also not needing it consistently. or Lebron becomes more of a straight up shooter and don't need the rock as much
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 13, 2017 0:02:33 GMT -5
A tainted ring is still a ring If KD goes back to OKC and wins a ring, will it mean more like LBJ in Cleveland, yes. But it's still a ring and a notch in his belt You're not wrong, a tainted ring is still a ring for sure. But him going back to OKC and winning a ring there won't clean his legacy. LeBron brought a ring to a team that has known nothing but losing, being made fun of, and never being taken seriously. The differences between the two is apples and oranges. Nah I wouldn't say that. Cleveland has been on the map since LBJ went there and he dropped them like a bad habit when he wanted a ring. That was his home and he left them none the less. He came back and won that ring that he lead them too. OKC doesn't have a ring and KD was their adopted son. If he came back and lead that team or any team for that matter to a ring people would still talk shit but how much can you talk when he lead a new team to a ring
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Jun 13, 2017 0:11:19 GMT -5
So that whole Malone to the Lakers, Nash to the Lakers, and Barkley (who is still my favorite player) to the Rockets is just forgotten to you. They were at the tail end of their careers. Your statement would definitely ring true if they were in their primes. I'd even back you up if it was Phoenix Suns MVP Nash going to the Lakers, I'd even back you up if it was Sixers and Phoenix Suns Barkley going to the Rockets. But Malone, Nash, and Barkley were a shell of their former selves and didn't have that necessary lift in their game to propel those respective teams to a championship. You know there is more guys who went somewhere else, I just went with the guys you listed and try to talk them up like they were a badge of honor. Look, if you want to blame someone, blame guys like LeBron, Garnett, & Ray Allen. Not the fans or KD for doing what is now seen as the norm for big names.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jun 13, 2017 0:12:11 GMT -5
Being a playmaker isn't Kyrie's game though, that's why I suggested Chris Paul or someone like a John Wall. Kyrie is too shoot happy and is a liability on defense. That's the thing tho because Kyrie can score without the ball. Chris Paul and John Wall aren't as effective without the rock. They need a perfect person who can dish when they got the bal while also not needing it consistently. or Lebron becomes more of a straight up shooter and don't need the rock as much Changes definitely have to be made. I'd get rid of JR and Shumpert, look to get more consistent shooters and defenders, an athletic center, and a playmaker that can operate and control the offense and will compliment LeBron nicely.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 13, 2017 0:17:45 GMT -5
That's the thing tho because Kyrie can score without the ball. Chris Paul and John Wall aren't as effective without the rock. They need a perfect person who can dish when they got the bal while also not needing it consistently. or Lebron becomes more of a straight up shooter and don't need the rock as much Changes definitely have to be made. I'd get rid of JR and Shumpert, look to get more consistent shooters and defenders, an athletic center, and a playmaker that can operate and control the offense and will compliment LeBron nicely. Shump I can see them getting some value for because he plays hard and his contract isn't that bad with like one more year left However, it's going to be hard to get rid of JR fresh contract, Frye has an expiring contract but he fits the team, and then you Tristian damn near making the max
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Unocal 76
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Post by Unocal 76 on Jun 13, 2017 0:23:42 GMT -5
I'd have loved to see this site when Deion Sanders won rings with the 49ers and Cowboys in back-to-back years way back when.
How do you think we would have reacted?
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Post by Manute Bol on Jun 13, 2017 0:30:42 GMT -5
No it's not earned it's soft, cowardly, and has an asterisk. I don't deny the man has talent but he'll never be respected because he took the cowards way out rather than standing his ground and being a leader to OKC. That's ridiculous. You could say the exact thing about LeBron when he left Cleveland for Miami. It's literally the EXACT same argument.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 13, 2017 0:39:41 GMT -5
I'd have loved to see this site when Deion Sanders won rings with the 49ers and Cowboys in back-to-back years way back when. How do you think we would have reacted? Def some would of called him a ring chaser
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Jun 13, 2017 0:41:33 GMT -5
I'm just going to say this, if you can't win a title with 4 god damn All-Stars on your team, then you had better lost to a team with 5 god damn All-Stars.
Basically this was about as easy of a title win as a team could get in the NBA.
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