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Post by corndog on Jul 19, 2016 12:13:19 GMT -5
I know they have a few WWWF cards from the 70s, but any chance we get more stuff from those eras? I am sure there is a lot of lost footage. But I know for a fact they have AWA and Championship Wresting from Florida shows that go into the late 60s, just from the footage they have. Just wondering if we will ever get anything off of TV from before the 80s? Florida and the AWA seemed to hit their peaks in the 70s. Also would have interesting seeing the WWWF in their formative years. Most of the Georgia/Mid-Atlantic footage is pretty poor from before the 80s, so I am guessing that stuff is mainly lost.
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Post by TexShark300 on Jul 19, 2016 13:18:55 GMT -5
Yeah, so much of that stuff is lost or incomplete or deteriorated to the point it would be unwatchable on a digital hi-res screen.
I'd love to see some, but it will never be in mass amounts.
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Post by GuyOfOwnage on Jul 19, 2016 13:28:21 GMT -5
The earliest WWWF footage I've seen from them is Pedro Morales' title win in 1971. I know earlier footage exists, given I've seen footage from 1966 or so floating around in traders' circles, from when their show was called Championship Wrestling from Washington. And I've seen an NWA title match from the early 50s on at least one of their DVD sets.
Unfortunately though, I doubt anything pre-80s is much of a priority for them. It's not going to bring in subscribers like the Hogan era and onward. That's not to say I don't want to see it, I just don't think we'll be seeing it anytime soon.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Jul 19, 2016 14:42:21 GMT -5
I don't know if I need full shows or even matches but a historical show about pre expansion era wrestling would be a great watch.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 16:07:15 GMT -5
You always hear that nobody watches the old stuff as the excuse why they don't put up much past the 80's but its interesting to see but honestly a lot of it is a painfully dull soul sucking watch and that's coming for me a guy that loves everything.It was neat when classics ondemand would put up some older stuff but I'm still waiting for them to put up the rest of Primetime,Saturday night,mid south and 11 alive.
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Post by GuyOfOwnage on Jul 19, 2016 16:41:51 GMT -5
You always hear that nobody watches the old stuff as the excuse why they don't put up much past the 80's but its interesting to see but honestly a lot of it is a painfully dull soul sucking watch and that's coming for me a guy that loves everything.It was neat when classics ondemand would put up some older stuff but I'm still waiting for them to put up the rest of Primetime,Saturday night,mid south and 11 alive. It's just a different style than what's presented now. That era has its highlights and its duds just like any other. It'd be the same as trying to compare any current TV product to one from 40 years ago. |
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Jul 19, 2016 17:35:49 GMT -5
A lot of people seem to believe that the WWE still has most if not all the footage from their DuMont Network days (late 40's to early 50's) sitting in the vaults. I question this claim since I don't think the WWE has ever made any of it public on any of their media platforms. You'd think they'd at least put something on DVD or YouTube or something when they were inducting Gorgeous George into the Hall of Fame a couple of years ago.
You'd also think that after making amends with Bruno a couple of years back that they'd make some of his stuff from his first title reign in the 60's available if they had it, but you only ever see footage for him from the 70's and 80's.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if, outside a few lucky odds and ends, all proto-WWE material from before the early 70's is pretty much gone.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 17:42:31 GMT -5
You always hear that nobody watches the old stuff as the excuse why they don't put up much past the 80's but its interesting to see but honestly a lot of it is a painfully dull soul sucking watch and that's coming for me a guy that loves everything.It was neat when classics ondemand would put up some older stuff but I'm still waiting for them to put up the rest of Primetime,Saturday night,mid south and 11 alive. It's just a different style than what's presented now. That era has its highlights and its duds just like any other. It'd be the same as trying to compare any current TV product to one from 40 years ago. I totally agree it's just hard to get used to the slow pace of action and everything else.When classics ondemand aired 70's Stampede and 80-82 awa and late 70's wwwf championship wrestling there was some great stuff and way more dull boring stuff.Its weird I like it for the history and to see how its evolved is very interesting and I wish they'd bring back some stuff from back in the day with a few tweaks.I think they should promote the older stuff on tv to possibly drive viewers to check it out because the average network subscriber is not flocking to this content. |
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Post by GuyOfOwnage on Jul 19, 2016 17:50:51 GMT -5
It's just a different style than what's presented now. That era has its highlights and its duds just like any other. It'd be the same as trying to compare any current TV product to one from 40 years ago. I totally agree it's just hard to get used to the slow pace of action and everything else.When classics ondemand aired 70's Stampede and and 80-82 awa and late 70's wwwf championship wrestling there was some great stuff and way more dull boring stuff.Its weird I like it for the history and to see how its evolved is very interesting and I wish they'd bring back some stuff from back in the day with a few tweaks.I think they should promote the older stuff on tv to possible drive viewers to check it out because the average network subscriber is not flocking to this content. It was a whole different world back then too. What fascinated me watching the old shows from the 60s was how much of a bigger deal the house shows were back then. They were the historical equivalent of modern-day PPVs. The taped TV shows were there solely to build up the unrecorded live events at MSG, Boston Garden and the like. It's surreal to see nowadays, where house shows are non-canon and the only things that matter are what we see on TV. |
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Post by corndog on Jul 20, 2016 11:30:56 GMT -5
It's just a different style than what's presented now. That era has its highlights and its duds just like any other. It'd be the same as trying to compare any current TV product to one from 40 years ago. I totally agree it's just hard to get used to the slow pace of action and everything else.When classics ondemand aired 70's Stampede and 80-82 awa and late 70's wwwf championship wrestling there was some great stuff and way more dull boring stuff.Its weird I like it for the history and to see how its evolved is very interesting and I wish they'd bring back some stuff from back in the day with a few tweaks.I think they should promote the older stuff on tv to possibly drive viewers to check it out because the average network subscriber is not flocking to this content. I agree by today's standards a lot of it is slow paced and often repetitive. Been watching the Chicago Film Archives matches from the 50s and it's pretty hit and miss. But it is interesting to watch for someone that appreciates the history of the business. Seeing where many of the basic moves came from, stuff that today is commonplace in most matches were finishers at the time and exclusive to one wrestler. At the same time, with it being just removed from being a shoot, you see a lot of holds that just don't exist anymore. Makes sense when you hear people talk about how many holds were lost with Stu Hart's passing. Also seeing wrestlers like "Gorgeous" George and "Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers creating characters that were unheard of at the time. I doubt there are many full shows in existence at this point, but I am sure there are enough major matches in good enough condition that they could at least create a section for it. Plus with the HOF, Legends Roundtables and just mentions on tv about older wrestlers, I'm sure quite a few people would be interested in seeing the bigger stars from the era and first generations of some of the more well known wrestling families. |
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mattperiolat
King Koopa
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Post by mattperiolat on Jul 20, 2016 19:05:17 GMT -5
Give my right arm for real vintage stuff going back into the 70s, 60s, heck, 50s if possible. The problem is, like others have said - interest, completeness and time.
Interest is hard to gage the further back you go. A lot of the old school fans who watched Capitol Wrestling back in the 50s are gone, so you'd really need to recondition the audience to accepting older matches and styles.
Completeness is hard to say. Not only is a lot wiped, but what is preserved may not be able to be digitized anymore, let alone uploadable to the network. Granted, WWE has stuff going back to Capitol, but getting stuff that old up is just not a priority.
Finally, time. We are begging for Heat, Saturday Night, Prime Time, Shotgun, Superstars, Wrestling Challenge, ECW, WCCW... it just hard to prioritize what needs to be done and who will watch what. We can only hope.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 19:16:10 GMT -5
I remember being one of those small people that's age was rather low in the mid 90's watching the Golden age of wrestling on ESPN Classic on weekends which I believe went back to the 50's.That was a memory.
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Post by johnnyk9 on Jul 24, 2016 14:36:48 GMT -5
We do need more old school
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2016 20:21:48 GMT -5
You'll see some brief clips of really old footage, and maybe a full match if you're lucky. Barely any full shows exist from many territories before the late 70s. Hell, even late 70s and early 80s full shows are hard to come by. They just didn't save/preserve the footage.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2016 20:26:36 GMT -5
I totally agree it's just hard to get used to the slow pace of action and everything else.When classics ondemand aired 70's Stampede and and 80-82 awa and late 70's wwwf championship wrestling there was some great stuff and way more dull boring stuff.Its weird I like it for the history and to see how its evolved is very interesting and I wish they'd bring back some stuff from back in the day with a few tweaks.I think they should promote the older stuff on tv to possible drive viewers to check it out because the average network subscriber is not flocking to this content. It was a whole different world back then too. What fascinated me watching the old shows from the 60s was how much of a bigger deal the house shows were back then. They were the historical equivalent of modern-day PPVs. The taped TV shows were there solely to build up the unrecorded live events at MSG, Boston Garden and the like. It's surreal to see nowadays, where house shows are non-canon and the only things that matter are what we see on TV. They could learn a thing or two from that era. Not that the non-televised events now should be presented as more important than Network specials, but they could certainly be emphasized as something important. They should absolutely be pushing each week's live events on Raw and Smackdown all the time (and I mean more than just a lower third graphic with the cities). After all, they are a source of revenue. If you push them, you sell more tickets. |
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Post by wingedeagle on Aug 10, 2016 0:48:22 GMT -5
You'll be lucky if they uploaded anything before 1970.
A.) WWE doesn't care about older fans
B.) A lot of wrestling promoters didn't think to preserve tapes back then since it was cheaper to record over the footage.
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Post by Doogie Bowser, MD on Aug 11, 2016 21:40:46 GMT -5
A lot of people seem to believe that the WWE still has most if not all the footage from their DuMont Network days (late 40's to early 50's) sitting in the vaults. I question this claim since I don't think the WWE has ever made any of it public on any of their media platforms. If they did, it would be on kinescope film, since videotape didn't exist as an option during DuMont's existence. The earlier "Honeymooners" episodes that started running in syndication in the mid-80s were mastered from kinescopes of Jackie Gleason's DuMont varety show, which should give you an idea of what the wrestling shows would look like if they existed. If Capitol Wrestling didn't save anything, the wrestling ended up being dumped into the East River in the 1970s with most of the rest of DuMont's archives, or stripped for silver content. All we have left of what aired on that network is from private collections. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 11, 2016 22:43:48 GMT -5
A lot of people seem to believe that the WWE still has most if not all the footage from their DuMont Network days (late 40's to early 50's) sitting in the vaults. I question this claim since I don't think the WWE has ever made any of it public on any of their media platforms. If they did, it would be on kinescope film, since videotape didn't exist as an option during DuMont's existence. The earlier "Honeymooners" episodes that started running in syndication in the mid-80s were mastered from kinescopes of Jackie Gleason's DuMont varety show, which should give you an idea of what the wrestling shows would look like if they existed. If Capitol Wrestling didn't save anything, the wrestling ended up being dumped into the East River in the 1970s with most of the rest of DuMont's archives, or stripped for silver content. All we have left of what aired on that network is from private collections. Yeah, if they have it it's undoubtedly not been converted to digital because that is massively time consuming. How time consuming? last time I checked digital conversion has to be done in real time. So if they have literal years of footage on tape it will take years to convert... and I don't see that kinda stuff being a priority when they still have stuff the majority of wrestling fans are going to be looking for on the network. |
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Post by corndog on Aug 14, 2016 11:29:17 GMT -5
It was a whole different world back then too. What fascinated me watching the old shows from the 60s was how much of a bigger deal the house shows were back then. They were the historical equivalent of modern-day PPVs. The taped TV shows were there solely to build up the unrecorded live events at MSG, Boston Garden and the like. It's surreal to see nowadays, where house shows are non-canon and the only things that matter are what we see on TV. They could learn a thing or two from that era. Not that the non-televised events now should be presented as more important than Network specials, but they could certainly be emphasized as something important. They should absolutely be pushing each week's live events on Raw and Smackdown all the time (and I mean more than just a lower third graphic with the cities). After all, they are a source of revenue. If you push them, you sell more tickets. That is actually more of a WWE thing than just time. Every since Vince went national and starting doing two to three different tours at a time, the house show quality declined greatly. If you were getting a B or C show, it was basically equivalent to an episode of Prime Time Wrestling from the 80s. The only time it seemed like they tried with house shows was in the 90s when they were struggling. Unlike most of the territories, which would have their hottest fueds in almost every show. |
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mattperiolat
King Koopa
Thank you, Brodie... for everything.
Posts: 11,445
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Post by mattperiolat on Aug 14, 2016 15:45:41 GMT -5
A lot of people seem to believe that the WWE still has most if not all the footage from their DuMont Network days (late 40's to early 50's) sitting in the vaults. I question this claim since I don't think the WWE has ever made any of it public on any of their media platforms. If they did, it would be on kinescope film, since videotape didn't exist as an option during DuMont's existence. The earlier "Honeymooners" episodes that started running in syndication in the mid-80s were mastered from kinescopes of Jackie Gleason's DuMont varety show, which should give you an idea of what the wrestling shows would look like if they existed. If Capitol Wrestling didn't save anything, the wrestling ended up being dumped into the East River in the 1970s with most of the rest of DuMont's archives, or stripped for silver content. All we have left of what aired on that network is from private collections. I've done some research into this and from the DuMont era, three television archives survive - Gleason, Archbishop Sheen and Capitol. All kinescope, but they remain largely intact. It's just up to WWE to preserve and determine if it's worth putting up on the network. As stated, the amount of time needed to digitize is considerable, to say nothing of the audience. That being said, what they have for some of the names - Gorgeous George, Argentina Rocca, Freddie Blassie - really should be digitized and up in profile collections. You have to start somewhere, after all. Rhodes, Flair and Graham goi inspiration from these guys, it's not a terrible idea to reflect. |
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