Sasha vs Charlotte Appreciation

[Abdullah]

After saying that this was a great match, easily better than the triple threat at WM 32, and that it could rival some Takeover matches.

I'm also somewhat upset. I have been since that video package of Sasha, Charlotte, and Becky to kick off the new women's title. Intellectually, in a kind of detached way, I understand that WWE is never going to say 'we f***ed up with the women for a long time and now we won't.' But as a fan, as someone who has watched regularly since 2008 and remembers how over a lot of divas were, it is a touch annoying to see the narrative that only the NXT 4 could have done this. They are absolutely talented, they're arguably better than a lot of WWE alumni, but they were just the first group of women who were given an honest chance. They got over, and instead of killing their heat and rather than take their mic away, they gave them more opportunities. That's the difference.

Another key difference comes down to presentation. The Charlotte/Sasha feud has been presented as a legitimate wrestling feud, no frenemy crap and no making fun of someone's weight. Similarly, the time-length. The match doesn't end around the seven-minute mark just as it's getting good. They're allowed to go, they're allowed to wrestle, and commentary respects it. Fans respect it because, besides the fact that these women can go in the ring, it's presented as something you should respect. Since 2008 and up to the July of last year, the division has largely lacked that feeling of respect.

Of course everyone knows this but at the same time, there's an overwhelming recency bias in wrestling. There are those who believe that only the NXT 4 could have gotten the crowd on their feet. Only the NXT 4 could have brought in better days for a women's division in WWE. I don't believe that and I hope that the Sasha, Charlotte, Becky, and Bayley appreciate the fact that they came along at the right time and were offered opportunities their predecessors were denied. Hell, even Summer Rae who was improving at a rapid rate has been erased from Sasha and Charlotte's continuity to tell a neater story.

I think it's important to appreciate that, yes, the Horsewomen are really great and it's a compelling narrative while also recognizing there is an asterisk to the compelling narrative.

[britishbulldog]

I think the reason it was in raw is two fold. First more people saw it this way. If everyone who has the network watched you'd be just over a million. Raw it's always in the three million area. Bigger moment for you star in reality then ppv. Second your ate trying to rebuild a show that used to be can't miss. For years we all could plot raw segment by segment because nothing of nite ever happens. The title change, the biggest in years imo, helps return a little curiosity of what happens next week.

[Deleted]

Jul 27, 2016 13:16:17 GMT -5 Abdullah said:

After saying that this was a great match, easily better than the triple threat at WM 32, and that it could rival some Takeover matches.

I'm also somewhat upset. I have been since that video package of Sasha, Charlotte, and Becky to kick off the new women's title. Intellectually, in a kind of detached way, I understand that WWE is never going to say 'we f***ed up with the women for a long time and now we won't.' But as a fan, as someone who has watched regularly since 2008 and remembers how over a lot of divas were, it is a touch annoying to see the narrative that only the NXT 4 could have done this. They are absolutely talented, they're arguably better than a lot of WWE alumni, but they were just the first group of women who were given an honest chance. They got over, and instead of killing their heat and rather than take their mic away, they gave them more opportunities. That's the difference.

Another key difference comes down to presentation. The Charlotte/Sasha feud has been presented as a legitimate wrestling feud, no frenemy crap and no making fun of someone's weight. Similarly, the time-length. The match doesn't end around the seven-minute mark just as it's getting good. They're allowed to go, they're allowed to wrestle, and commentary respects it. Fans respect it because, besides the fact that these women can go in the ring, it's presented as something you should respect. Since 2008 and up to the July of last year, the division has largely lacked that feeling of respect.

Of course everyone knows this but at the same time, there's an overwhelming recency bias in wrestling. There are those who believe that only the NXT 4 could have gotten the crowd on their feet. Only the NXT 4 could have brought in better days for a women's division in WWE. I don't believe that and I hope that the Sasha, Charlotte, Becky, and Bayley appreciate the fact that they came along at the right time and were offered opportunities their predecessors were denied. Hell, even Summer Rae who was improving at a rapid rate has been erased from Sasha and Charlotte's continuity to tell a neater story.

I think it's important to appreciate that, yes, the Horsewomen are really great and it's a compelling narrative while also recognizing there is an asterisk to the compelling narrative.

I agree that it's definitely frustrating that WWE never really takes the onus for a lot of spoiled careers. You can make the argument though that however talented those women of the past were, the NXT 4 were the one who forced WWE's hand to give them a little more. But it's really hard not to think about women like Beth Phoenix, Melina, Michelle McCool and certainly others who I think could definitely hang with the women going today but never really came close to getting to show what they can do. How they act like people started the whole "give Divas a chance" thing out of nowhere, when it was specifically because they booked upwards of 8 women in one match and it only lasted like 20 seconds.

But oh well, we're here now and hopefully it just keeps getting better from here.

[Deleted]

JR explained a reason why this might have happened on Raw rather than ppv. You have over 3 million people watching Raw and only 1-1.5 million watching the Network, definitely not 2 million. As great as it would be for it to happen on the Network, more people saw Sasha get her win here than that on the first episode of the New Era Raw. Makes sense really.

Jul 26, 2016 9:54:10 GMT -5 booman said:

Did anyone else notice Charlotte fighting hard to not smile after the match. You can tell she was happy for Sasha as well.

If you freeze frame when Sasha had her arm held up you can see Charlotte smiling wide in the back before her expression changes. So nice.

[Toilet Paper Roll]

That was my favorite match of 2016 so far.

Before that I thought the run of PPV matches AJ had would all be up top.

[trollrogue]

Jul 27, 2016 13:16:17 GMT -5 Abdullah said:

After saying that this was a great match, easily better than the triple threat at WM 32, and that it could rival some Takeover matches.

I'm also somewhat upset. I have been since that video package of Sasha, Charlotte, and Becky to kick off the new women's title. Intellectually, in a kind of detached way, I understand that WWE is never going to say 'we f***ed up with the women for a long time and now we won't.' But as a fan, as someone who has watched regularly since 2008 and remembers how over a lot of divas were, it is a touch annoying to see the narrative that only the NXT 4 could have done this. They are absolutely talented, they're arguably better than a lot of WWE alumni, but they were just the first group of women who were given an honest chance. They got over, and instead of killing their heat and rather than take their mic away, they gave them more opportunities. That's the difference.

Another key difference comes down to presentation. The Charlotte/Sasha feud has been presented as a legitimate wrestling feud, no frenemy crap and no making fun of someone's weight. Similarly, the time-length. The match doesn't end around the seven-minute mark just as it's getting good. They're allowed to go, they're allowed to wrestle, and commentary respects it. Fans respect it because, besides the fact that these women can go in the ring, it's presented as something you should respect. Since 2008 and up to the July of last year, the division has largely lacked that feeling of respect.

Of course everyone knows this but at the same time, there's an overwhelming recency bias in wrestling. There are those who believe that only the NXT 4 could have gotten the crowd on their feet. Only the NXT 4 could have brought in better days for a women's division in WWE. I don't believe that and I hope that the Sasha, Charlotte, Becky, and Bayley appreciate the fact that they came along at the right time and were offered opportunities their predecessors were denied. Hell, even Summer Rae who was improving at a rapid rate has been erased from Sasha and Charlotte's continuity to tell a neater story.

I think it's important to appreciate that, yes, the Horsewomen are really great and it's a compelling narrative while also recognizing there is an asterisk to the compelling narrative.

I think it's a situation where having new faces lead the Division removes some of the old stink from yesteryears. The NXT women get their callups and before the 'Revolution' ended up like Emma, or in a rut like Paige when they BOTH were at the top of the women's division in NXT.

So for the 4 Horsewomen they all were pushed to the moon fast and repeatedly, resulting in Charlotte/Sasha on the first day of the new brand extension when 'anything can happen'. I think this is a great sign thus far, Smackdown I'm not sure what the women are going to feud over without titles but Becky, Alexa and Carmella from NXT will probably be the 'main event' Women for similar reasons-- because they represent progress.

Unfortunately I think that leaves Alicia Fox and Natalya and the rest of the 'old guard' to eat pins for a bit until they get their 'crazy heel turn' like Foxy did.

[Deleted]

Jul 27, 2016 13:16:17 GMT -5 Abdullah said:

I think it's important to appreciate that, yes, the Horsewomen are really great and it's a compelling narrative while also recognizing there is an asterisk to the compelling narrative.

This whole post is dead-on. WWE very much has a recency bias, as you put it, when it comes to their roster but it's especially noticeable when it comes to their women. From the past year or so of programming, you'd think that Beth Phoenix, Natalya, Gail Kim, Mickie James, or even more recent women like Paige, AJ Lee and Nikki Bella had never even existed, let alone worked their asses off to elevate a division that was so often thought of as a piss break.