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Post by eJm on Aug 13, 2016 1:32:41 GMT -5
That's sort of like saying "humanity is the worst, here's this YouTube comments section on a video about Peppa Pig talking about Nazis and cussing up women". People have a damn bizarre attachment to kayfabe like it's the only way to enjoy wrestling when all WWE has to do is have more faith in its own characters, universe and show concept in general to ACT like the show it wants to be rather than trying to be something it isn't instead of going out of your way to make your workers act like it's real all the time in a shallow way the other 99% can see through. Kayfabe is very much a "if it ain't broke dont fix it" type thing. It worked for decades. Seeing two people who just beat the shit out of eachother in the ring having a laugh on Twitter is very discouraging as an example. Sure times are changing, business is evolving etc. But its happening too fast It can still work too. Zayn and Owens talk trash about each other in the media completely in kayfabe and people love it. Sure, we're "in on it", but its very easy to suspend disbelief if they're putting in a good effort into their characters. /endCornetterant But again, I genuinely don't understand why. We're in on it but we don't need to be in on it every day of our lives when no other form of entertainment (besides sport) expects you to buy into something outside of the show. And if we're going by that argument, kayfabe has been broken for a long time because, outside of a few incidents here and there, it hasn't ever helped bring in extra people, just extra media attention where talking heads laugh at them for being ridiculous. It's a form of entertainment. Choreographed, free flowing, athletic entertainment. Enjoyable, obviously, but let's call a spade a spade here. In WWE's case, it's a show written weekly and shown live. If you are expecting me to expect these guys to try and work me outside of the show, that means you're not doing a good enough job with making me fall to your product in the show itself. You're also expecting me to not hate worked shoots as much as I do and that's not happening. Do you think, for example, everyone believing Hulk Hogan really wanted to beat the crap out of Jay Leno on the Tonight Show made people realise the charm of kayfabe and brought them to watch the WCW PPV he was on? More importantly, did it KEEP them watching long term?
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 74,205
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Post by Chiral on Aug 13, 2016 1:34:14 GMT -5
I have never seen a company so constantly thumb their nose at consumer criticism and complaints. Most will at least pay lip service to them. It's so bizarre. I really can't think of another entertainment company that seems to have such open contempt for a segment of their audience. Also I reaaaaally can't stand the "Have YOU ever run a company???" defense Triple H always goes to.
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Post by eJm on Aug 13, 2016 1:37:27 GMT -5
I have never seen a company so constantly thumb their nose at consumer criticism and complaints. Most will at least pay lip service to them. It's so bizarre. I really can't think of another entertainment company that seems to have such open contempt for a segment of their audience. Also I reaaaaally can't stand the "Have YOU ever run a company???" defense Triple H always goes to. As a side point, if your audience is people who run companies, none of them will watch because they're too busy, you know, running companies.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Aug 13, 2016 2:16:06 GMT -5
It's stuff like this that makes me dread when Vince is gone. I'd love Triple H to prove me wrong but I don't see him as this Saviour that everyone else seems to. Every wrestling fan I've ever known has been driven away by him.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,002
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Aug 13, 2016 3:59:31 GMT -5
For a guy who made his career out of "The Game would never fall for that" as his excuse to never have to do logical story points, that's f***ing rich.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,002
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Aug 13, 2016 4:01:03 GMT -5
It's stuff like this that makes me dread when Vince is gone. I'd love Triple H to prove me wrong but I don't see him as this Saviour that everyone else seems to. Every wrestling fan I've ever known has been driven away by him. In other words, "It's just gonna get taken over by his idiotic daughter and doofus son-in-law and the rest of his stupid family"?
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Aug 13, 2016 7:34:23 GMT -5
Believeablity is so very important. Unless you get to bury fools with your friends and are completely protected. Reminds me of that time he was on Tough Enough threatening to to shoot on people who didn't sell well, meanwhile... www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8KbXThVBFINo embedding of WWE videos from non-official sources, please - EoE
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Post by Mid-Carder on Aug 13, 2016 7:43:27 GMT -5
It's stuff like this that makes me dread when Vince is gone. I'd love Triple H to prove me wrong but I don't see him as this Saviour that everyone else seems to. Every wrestling fan I've ever known has been driven away by him. In other words, "It's just gonna get taken over by his idiotic daughter and doofus son-in-law and the rest of his stupid family"? Wise words spoken by a wise man
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Aug 13, 2016 8:22:25 GMT -5
I don't think he explained much of anything. He was just being pretentious and smug. So a typical HHH promo
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Post by ________ has left the building on Aug 13, 2016 9:07:31 GMT -5
Remember this is the man taking over WWE when Vince steps down. WWE is going to be shaped and molded into what he feels it should be. Hunter's vision is already becoming a reality with his chosen ones getting the spotlight and his booking philosophy becoming the norm. Good or bad thing depending on your opinions on the current product.
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Post by horseface on Aug 13, 2016 12:36:41 GMT -5
I'd like to ask him if he thinks he'd have done as well if he'd lost about half his matches overall. He'd probably say yes but I think he knows the real answer.
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Post by Crow Dust on Aug 13, 2016 13:27:06 GMT -5
God damn whats the point of pulling the curtain back like this? Theres people out there that are still worked by the product, and they WANT to be worked. They WANT to suspend their disbelief. They ENJOY suspending their disbelief. Cater to them instead of the "smarks". What in the f*** are they doing to our beloved wrestling? I see no problem with this. Kayfabe is dead, no one in this world buys wrestling as real. Pulling the curtain back is a behind the scenes look, just like TV Shows and Movies do. There is an exceptionally dumb segment of the wrestling viewing world that very much believes it's real.
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Aug 13, 2016 13:37:32 GMT -5
In other words, "It's just gonna get taken over by his idiotic daughter and doofus son-in-law and the rest of his stupid family"? Wise words spoken by a wise man No not really. Hunter's just doing politics, Vince is the major reason for the 50-50 booking. As we've seen with NXT and now Smackdown, the future looks much brighter behind Hunter. Not to mention that Punk said then was also scripted.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Aug 13, 2016 14:07:38 GMT -5
Wise words spoken by a wise man No not really. Hunter's just doing politics, Vince is the major reason for the 50-50 booking. As we've seen with NXT and now Smackdown, the future looks much brighter behind Hunter. Not to mention that Punk said then was also scripted. Hunter didn't book NXT and doesn't book Smackdown, thank Ryan Ward for that, and he was on the WWE creative team prior to Hunter gaining control of developmental.
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Aug 13, 2016 14:15:22 GMT -5
No not really. Hunter's just doing politics, Vince is the major reason for the 50-50 booking. As we've seen with NXT and now Smackdown, the future looks much brighter behind Hunter. Not to mention that Punk said then was also scripted. Hunter didn't book NXT and doesn't book Smackdown, thank Ryan Ward for that, and he was on the WWE creative team prior to Hunter gaining control of developmental. He's one of Hunter's men.
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Post by Stone Cold Eleanor Shellstrop on Aug 13, 2016 17:57:57 GMT -5
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Aug 13, 2016 18:53:56 GMT -5
I see no problem with this. Kayfabe is dead, no one in this world buys wrestling as real. Pulling the curtain back is a behind the scenes look, just like TV Shows and Movies do. There is an exceptionally dumb segment of the wrestling viewing world that very much believes it's real. Oh yeah, the IWC.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 13, 2016 19:27:03 GMT -5
Without kayfabe, wrestling is meaningless. It's not like films and TV shows where the audience separates the actor from the character. Wrestling is very different, almost unique in a way. That's a big part of the appeal. On social media, wrestlers should generally stay in character. I don't need to see a wrestler feuding with another wrestler on TV only to have them sharing pictures of their kids on Facebook and talking about how they are having a BBQ that weekend. Hell, you could do things in a witty semi-kayfabe way like having the wrestler saying "I will set aside my desire to kick your ass at (next PPV) but only because you make nice hot dogs" or some shit like that, but I've seen some stupid things on social media like superface John Cena congratulating uber bitch heel Nikki Bella on being women's champion, which makes no sense in either kayfabe or non-kayfabe.
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Post by eJm on Aug 13, 2016 19:50:06 GMT -5
Without kayfabe, wrestling is meaningless. It's not like films and TV shows where the audience separates the actor from the character. Wrestling is very different, almost unique in a way. That's a big part of the appeal. That would have worked when the only thing we could follow of the characters, mostly, was what we saw on TV unless you were lucky enough to be in a territory where, say, Hacksaw Jim Duggan was the biggest star going before Vince offered him a dumpster truck to be in the WWF's midcard. Now, we have more access to these people and they're free to give us more access and, to be honest, it's great because it makes them more human and we care about how much they improve in the ring and want to bond with the characters they put out which is partially the business' doing in the Attitude Era and partially how everything has gone, not just wrestling with information coming out all the time from every form of entertainment giving the fans a better sense about how stuff works. Whether it's a good or bad thing is almost besides the point because it was always going to happen whether the business wanted it or not. As I said before, kayfabe is pretty much Wrestling's version of lore and world building and it should be treated more in that sense then the "fool the world into thinking Wrestling's real when everyone knows it isn't" sense.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Aug 13, 2016 20:14:25 GMT -5
Without kayfabe, wrestling is meaningless. It's not like films and TV shows where the audience separates the actor from the character. Wrestling is very different, almost unique in a way. It's not just different because it's different. It's different because the WWE can't let go of the idea of working people, and the fans can't get over feeling smart because they're not getting worked. It used to be "Wrestler X deserved to win that match because he's the better fighter!" Now it's "Wrestler X deserved to get pushed because he's the better entertainer!" Same schtick, new era, and it's all stupid. Saying "wrestling is different!" is just saying "wrestling fans refuse to suspend their disbelief," and that's just something we gotta get past.
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