Did TNA "do wrong" by their originals?

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

The running joke has been ex wwe wrestler comes in and gets a significant push out the door. Rightfully so for some guys like Jeff Hardy and Kurt angle while others not so much but I digress.

Could they have shown more love to their own originals. Teaming Flair with AJ is a great move but making him Mini Flair is a dumb move. Booby Roodr and Eric Young leave from TNA after being owed money. Abyss is still doing crazy matches(tho I think those are his suggestions).

Samoa Joe, AJ, Roode, EY and a lot of others all left with no fanfare and as AJ stated before Dixie was more interested in people she had saw once upon a time. If things were equal do you think some or majority of the originals would still be there?

[Reflecto]

I remain steadfast the end of the line for TNA was the moment that they gave Kaz that main event push against Angle in 2007 for that exact reason.

Whether or not Kaz was good enough, or a worthy person of elevation against Angle, was not the issue.

The issue there was that Kaz WAS a TNA original, that got the same treatment as TNA originals- left TNA, went to WWE for a super-short cup of coffee, found himself back in TNA...but even a three week Velocity run of no acclaim was enough to make Kaz "worthy" of a main event push.

Even if Kaz was good, that moment made it clear- the very worst WWE performer is better than the very best TNA performer, and if you want to be a top TNA star, quit, go to WWE, then come back and we'll push you.

[r.]

An emphatic, Yes

[Deleted]

Yes. Yes, absolutely, yes.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Sept 8, 2016 0:49:56 GMT -5 Reflecto said:

I remain steadfast the end of the line for TNA was the moment that they gave Kaz that main event push against Angle in 2007 for that exact reason.

Whether or not Kaz was good enough, or a worthy person of elevation against Angle, was not the issue.

The issue there was that Kaz WAS a TNA original, that got the same treatment as TNA originals- left TNA, went to WWE for a super-short cup of coffee, found himself back in TNA...but even a three week Velocity run of no acclaim was enough to make Kaz "worthy" of a main event push.

Even if Kaz was good, that moment made it clear- the very worst WWE performer is better than the very best TNA performer, and if you want to be a top TNA star, quit, go to WWE, then come back and we'll push you.

James Storm says hi. In all seriousness yea that's crazy I forgot about the Kaz mini push. The Abyss rumor of him vs Taker always get brought but think if he was just monster of the month for Taker and came back to TNA, he'd be gold which is 2 notches below Gail Kim rank.

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

Sept 8, 2016 2:15:38 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Sept 8, 2016 0:49:56 GMT -5 Reflecto said:

I remain steadfast the end of the line for TNA was the moment that they gave Kaz that main event push against Angle in 2007 for that exact reason.

Whether or not Kaz was good enough, or a worthy person of elevation against Angle, was not the issue.

The issue there was that Kaz WAS a TNA original, that got the same treatment as TNA originals- left TNA, went to WWE for a super-short cup of coffee, found himself back in TNA...but even a three week Velocity run of no acclaim was enough to make Kaz "worthy" of a main event push.

Even if Kaz was good, that moment made it clear- the very worst WWE performer is better than the very best TNA performer, and if you want to be a top TNA star, quit, go to WWE, then come back and we'll push you.

James Storm says hi.

Chris Harris also says hi.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Sept 8, 2016 2:41:27 GMT -5 CATCH_US IS the Conversation said:

Sept 8, 2016 2:15:38 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

James Storm says hi.

Chris Harris also says hi.

Haaaa!!! That bag of crap

[Oh Cry Me a Screwball]

Ehh, the Kazarian super-push came after what should have been a complete career killer for the guy, being 1/4th of Serotonin, so I think it evens out.

But yeah, TNA did their Originals so badly. Just look at the complete joke that was the TNA Frontline.

[Powerline]

I think there's a tangled web. On some level, being able to poach some of that talent they got from WWE was a big deal, especially Angle and Christian. But yes, you gotta find a way to use them wisely that doesn't involve pushing your longer-served roster under the rug. There's a balance you gotta strike. And many major wrestling companies seem to have more moments of getting it wrong than right. The WCW pretty much bent at the will of Hogan, especially with the NWO, which in turn allowed Hall and Nash to carve out whatever slice they wanted without anyone telling them no. They ALMOST had it with the Sting/Hogan storyline where the homegrown talent was gonna prevail, but, nope. WWE, on the other hand, is guilty of the other extreme of making aquired talent look like trash before they look like gold. I'm not sure that's ever their philosophy, but MAN did they put Jericho and Booker T through the ringer before they made them look like serious contenders. And those are just two examples that survived. How many people came over from the Invasion angle that never even got remotely close to the position they were in WCW? They are better with it when it comes to TNA/RoH people for the most part, but they're as guilty as anyone.

You can't hire people you've poached from elsewhere and treat them like gods, and you can't just decide "this is as far as we'll let them go, and there's plenty above that line that they'll never ever get to because we gotta make OUR GUYS look good" either. There has to be a balance.

[Mozenrath]

I think some people got a rawer deal than others. Like, for a while (up until they stopped f***ing paying him), Roode had a decent run of things. The problem with TNA is, and while this is true elsewhere, it's especially true for TNA, they are too enamored with new toys. When Christian came to TNA, they lost much interest in doing anything with Monty Brown, who had previously seemed like a sure bet.

Then, they lost a great deal of interest in Christian when Kurt Angle came in, and they certainly lost a lot of their value of Samoa Joe.

Now, is it wrong to push the new guy? Not inherently, no, but it doesn't mean you can't keep a few balls in the air, still.

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

Sept 8, 2016 0:49:56 GMT -5 Reflecto said:

I remain steadfast the end of the line for TNA was the moment that they gave Kaz that main event push against Angle in 2007 for that exact reason.

Whether or not Kaz was good enough, or a worthy person of elevation against Angle, was not the issue.

The issue there was that Kaz WAS a TNA original, that got the same treatment as TNA originals- left TNA, went to WWE for a super-short cup of coffee, found himself back in TNA...but even a three week Velocity run of no acclaim was enough to make Kaz "worthy" of a main event push.

Even if Kaz was good, that moment made it clear- the very worst WWE performer is better than the very best TNA performer, and if you want to be a top TNA star, quit, go to WWE, then come back and we'll push you.

The most pathetic thing was that he even filmed a segment with Karen Jarrett who had a talk show, "Karen's Angle", where he did the usual "wwe held me back" promo and how happy he was to be back in tna where he could be himself.

[chrom]

Yes, they've made it clear that the lowest guy on The WWE Totem Pole is more valuable to them than any original ever will be. Why else do they desperately try to sign worthless scum like Matthews and Sandow, oh excuse me, Aron Rex and others? If they had never been in WWE Ditzy and them wouldn't have thought for a second about signing them.

There's been numerous good talent out there over the year who they screwed over, talent that actually wanted to be there and sign with them all because they weren't on the WWE roster

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Sept 8, 2016 4:36:53 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

I think some people got a rawer deal than others. Like, for a while (up until they stopped f***ing paying him), Roode had a decent run of things. The problem with TNA is, and while this is true elsewhere, it's especially true for TNA, they are too enamored with new toys. When Christian came to TNA, they lost much interest in doing anything with Monty Brown, who had previously seemed like a sure bet.

Then, they lost a great deal of interest in Christian when Kurt Angle came in, and they certainly lost a lot of their value of Samoa Joe.

Now, is it wrong to push the new guy? Not inherently, no, but it doesn't mean you can't keep a few balls in the air, still.

There is supposed to be a happy medium but you are correct in saying that they like their new toys and tend to forget about the previous signing. Hell, they signed Moose and Rex and both of them immediately had a "segment" with Lashley their first night.

[A Platypus Rave]

Yes.

[Push R Truth]

TNA did everybody wrong except for a small handful of lucky people.

["Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik]

Remember when Sean Morley beat Daniels clean? Good times.

[HMARK Center]

Sept 8, 2016 4:36:53 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

I think some people got a rawer deal than others. Like, for a while (up until they stopped f***ing paying him), Roode had a decent run of things. The problem with TNA is, and while this is true elsewhere, it's especially true for TNA, they are too enamored with new toys. When Christian came to TNA, they lost much interest in doing anything with Monty Brown, who had previously seemed like a sure bet.

Then, they lost a great deal of interest in Christian when Kurt Angle came in, and they certainly lost a lot of their value of Samoa Joe.

Now, is it wrong to push the new guy? Not inherently, no, but it doesn't mean you can't keep a few balls in the air, still.

And I think that circles back to Dixie's proclivity for constantly changing around the booking team and what have you.

Dusty Rhodes wasn't exactly booking up a storm when he ran the script in TNA, but he at least built to AJ winning the World Title from Jarrett in a definitive victory...but then we switched to Scott D'Amore, who did a pretty awesome job, but suddenly getting on Spike meant they wanted him to change things around, and next thing you know he wasn't a booker anymore, then they went through Dutch, and Cornette, and Russo, and Hogan, and Bischoff, and on, and on, and on...

Kurt Angle could survive rotating booking teams because, well, he's Kurt Angle; he was already a firmly established main event level talent, as were guys like Booker T, Sting, Nash, et. al. Even Christian, who wasn't a WWE main eventer, was at least an established name with an established character. But when a company is trying to find its national footing, its in-house talent needs to be firmly established early on, and you can't do that when you constantly change who's holding the book and each of them have a different idea of how a guy like AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Alex Shelley, Bobby Roode, or Chris Daniels should be used, written, and presented. Those guys didn't have the benefit of coming out of WWF or WCW with firmly entrenched personas and histories, which would've allowed them to largely survive booking team changes, so next thing you'd know AJ wouldn't be main eventing anymore, or Joe would flip face or heel too easily, or Shelley would go from doing a leather jacket rocker look to something completely different, or Daniels would emphasize or deemphasize the Fallen Angel gimmick to certain degrees, etc. etc.

If somebody backstage at TNA had ever had the guts and/or ability to put their foot down and say "we can have more voices in the room, but THIS is the overall creative direction of this company", that could've been avoided. On the surface, TNA did fine by a number of their talent, seeing as how guys from AJ to Eric Young got to hold the World Title, often for decent runs and on multiple occasions, but the lack of a creative direction meant the guys never got their own personal brands as over and established as they should have been.

[Magic knows Black Lives Matter]

Sept 8, 2016 0:49:56 GMT -5 Reflecto said:

I remain steadfast the end of the line for TNA was the moment that they gave Kaz that main event push against Angle in 2007 for that exact reason.

Whether or not Kaz was good enough, or a worthy person of elevation against Angle, was not the issue.

The issue there was that Kaz WAS a TNA original, that got the same treatment as TNA originals- left TNA, went to WWE for a super-short cup of coffee, found himself back in TNA...but even a three week Velocity run of no acclaim was enough to make Kaz "worthy" of a main event push.

Even if Kaz was good, that moment made it clear- the very worst WWE performer is better than the very best TNA performer, and if you want to be a top TNA star, quit, go to WWE, then come back and we'll push you.

But dude was an undercard geek for several months before they saw something in him and decided to push him. I mean, you can make that argument for a LOT of people but Kaz really isn't one of them. Especially since they treated him like one of their originals by just giving up on his push half-way through and bringing him back as Suicide because they had a shitty video game to promote.

[cabbageboy]

On the micro level one could point to TNA throwing a bone to a lot of guys. Jay Lethal beat Angle at one point, Kaz got a push for a while, etc. But the problem is that Dixie Carter never really believed in any of her own guys and no one really sustained momentum. One of the fascinating things about watching WWE and NXT is seeing guys like Styles, Joe, Roode, Aries etc. be seriously over. TNA's booking and promoting was always a joke, but the talent in the ring wasn't.

As far as doing wrong by the Originals, of course they did in the long run. Some guys like Storm and Abyss can't even seem to get away from TNA. I should also think for years WWE did wrong by these guys since for the most part they weren't interested in any of these guys until they were past their absolute peak. But really the whole Hogan/Bischoff regime was the beginning of the end. It was the sign that TNA was never going to take the homegrown guys seriously. I suppose some guys like Roode and Aries went a long while before the bottom fell out, but eventually it fell out.

[Sephiroth]

AJ and Roode above all others. AJ gave close to half his life to TNA, was with them from day one, was one of their most decorated performers, and was the one guy so many fans associated with the brand more than any other-and HE'S the one they ask to take a pay cut for the good of the promotion? Especially after all the money they had blown on the Hogan/Bischoff fiasco!