Tony Schiavontay
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Tony Schiavontay on Sept 15, 2016 21:23:54 GMT -5
What the hell were they thinking? Even Mean Gene is thinking "f*** this". Mean Gene is always out to sell whatever you want him to sell but he's not selling the f***ing Renegade. It's just ridiculous that WCW spent so much time promoting that the Ultimate Warrior was coming when they knew full well he wasn't going to be there. Instead they pick a random WCW Saturday Night opening match Powerplant jobber and dress him up in a similar getup, give him a name with no thought put into it and try to pass it off as the real thing. People are going to notice. There's a lot to say about the Ultimate Warrior as a talent in the ring but no matter how sloppy and basic a lot of his work was, he was a star. His offense was all he needed for what his gimmick was and almost enhanced it. He had a unique charisma that made it easy to really believe that he was a complete madman completely on the edge. This guy. Does not. It would be like if Bret had resolved his contract issues with Vince in 97 and WCW dressed Jerry Flynn in pink and black tights and called him The Gunman. Just doesn't work.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 15, 2016 22:10:40 GMT -5
Eric: where the hell is warrior? He wants how much money? FOH, find me a dude who looks 65% like him and we'll just fool the audience for a little until the PPV passes by.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 15, 2016 22:56:33 GMT -5
It'd be like if Fake Diesel and Fake Razor weren't being presented by heel JR. It was still stupid, but they knew it'd go over badly and had a heel taking the heat for it, even if of course the logic of heel JR is questionable.
Renegade is a guy I truly pity from that era. He was put into a no-win situation, probably not paid particularly well for it, and WCW took out on him that it failed.
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Post by Duke Cameron on Sept 15, 2016 23:00:08 GMT -5
Don't be so hard on him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2016 23:21:29 GMT -5
my fondest memory of Renegade is him hitting the worst dropkick I've ever seen at Bash At The Beach against Orndorff. I couldn't find a gif sadly BATB95: Orndorff vs Renegadestarts at about 6 mins into it Schiavone: "Tried a dropkick but actually he just got him in the gut"
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Sept 15, 2016 23:42:37 GMT -5
I feel badly for this cat. I know that he ended up taking his own life later. My understanding is that they had basically talked the whole thing up to him like he was going to be the star that Warrior was, and clearly that wasn't the case. It really wasn't his fault. He never should have been in that position to begin with.
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Tony Schiavontay
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Tony Schiavontay on Sept 16, 2016 2:45:30 GMT -5
I don't want to make it seem like I'm blaming him for it. Not his fault he was picked for a role he was not only not ready for but that even the best wrestler on the planet would have been screwed to try to get over. It's just the idea that a major promotion would get Hogan to hint at getting help from "the Ultimate surprise" and giving them that. The guy never had a chance and it sucks that WCW chose to take it all out on him. Anyone with half a brain could see that this wouldn't ever get over. Sad that he took his own life. Was promised the world and had no idea there was never any intention to make good on it. He was the patsy of a nonsensical bait and switch to pop a PPV buyrate for a month.
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auph10imitated
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Post by auph10imitated on Sept 16, 2016 5:34:57 GMT -5
Since they had Sting in the Hogan/Savage camp I didnt get the need for this, as soon as they knew they couldnt get Warrior it should have been dropped. Silly idea. But tehn again WCW in 1994-1995 was basing the company around replicating 80's WWF, and if they couldn't get the actual person who originally played the role nthey was making thier own. Strange era, but as a kid I kind of loved it as I missed old 80's WWF so I dug it, as an adult, it was horrific.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 16, 2016 5:40:09 GMT -5
my fondest memory of Renegade is him hitting the worst dropkick I've ever seen at Bash At The Beach against Orndorff. I couldn't find a gif sadly BATB95: Orndorff vs Renegadestarts at about 6 mins into it Schiavone: "Tried a dropkick but actually he just got him in the gut" That's bad, but I'd say Erik Watts still had a worse one. That at least could have (and probably should have) been sold by commentary as a single-leg dropkick, Orndorff at least made it look like it had some impact, but he was obviously a veteran. That said, I imagine Tony and the others knew this was pretty doomed, so covering for the guy wasn't high priority.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Sept 16, 2016 6:03:25 GMT -5
They basically hung that poor kid out to dry in a way that's vaguely reminiscent of reality TV popstar shows, they gave him the world because he had the right look, made him seem like a massive deal, but they left him to fend for himself the moment it became clear their stupid idea for him wouldn't work.
I wouldn't at all be surprised if the end game they had in mind for the character was a 'Warrior' heel turn so Hogan can get that win back.
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auph10imitated
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Post by auph10imitated on Sept 16, 2016 7:08:30 GMT -5
They basically hung that poor kid out to dry in a way that's vaguely reminiscent of reality TV popstar shows, they gave him the world because he had the right look, made him seem like a massive deal, but they left him to fend for himself the moment it became clear their stupid idea for him wouldn't work. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the end game they had in mind for the character was a 'Warrior' heel turn so Hogan can get that win back. Perfect analogy, and also that is the only reason Hogan/WCW wanted Warrior. Its also the reason they went after Yokozuna during the wars too, so he could get that win back as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2016 7:48:40 GMT -5
It would be like if Bret had resolved his contract issues with Vince in 97 and WCW dressed Jerry Flynn in pink and black tights and called him The Gunman. Just doesn't work. I'm choosing to ignore all your other (good) points and just obsess about an alternate Earth where Jerry Flynn is the Gunman. Thank you for this.
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Squirrel Master
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Squirrel Master on Sept 16, 2016 8:01:13 GMT -5
Since they were throwing shit at the wall to see of it would stick, why didn't they license this as his entrance theme?
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Sept 16, 2016 8:57:58 GMT -5
Didn't Bischoff try to claim that he wasn't trying to rip off the Warrior at one point?
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Sept 16, 2016 10:22:05 GMT -5
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Post by mauled on Sept 16, 2016 15:16:47 GMT -5
They basically hung that poor kid out to dry in a way that's vaguely reminiscent of reality TV popstar shows, they gave him the world because he had the right look, made him seem like a massive deal, but they left him to fend for himself the moment it became clear their stupid idea for him wouldn't work. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the end game they had in mind for the character was a 'Warrior' heel turn so Hogan can get that win back. Perfect analogy, and also that is the only reason Hogan/WCW wanted Warrior. Its also the reason they went after Yokozuna during the wars too, so he could get that win back as well. Iv always been amazed at how a guy can be so insecure about his win/loss record in fake fights. With both Warrior and Yoko it was 8yrs each, in a different company, yet Hogan still needed his wins back !
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Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Sept 16, 2016 16:08:31 GMT -5
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Post by mauled on Sept 16, 2016 16:55:33 GMT -5
What the hell were they thinking? Even Mean Gene is thinking "f*** this". Mean Gene is always out to sell whatever you want him to sell but he's not selling the f***ing Renegade. It's just ridiculous that WCW spent so much time promoting that the Ultimate Warrior was coming when they knew full well he wasn't going to be there. Instead they pick a random WCW Saturday Night opening match Powerplant jobber and dress him up in a similar getup, give him a name with no thought put into it and try to pass it off as the real thing. People are going to notice. There's a lot to say about the Ultimate Warrior as a talent in the ring but no matter how sloppy and basic a lot of his work was, he was a star. His offense was all he needed for what his gimmick was and almost enhanced it. He had a unique charisma that made it easy to really believe that he was a complete madman completely on the edge. This guy. Does not. It would be like if Bret had resolved his contract issues with Vince in 97 and WCW dressed Jerry Flynn in pink and black tights and called him The Gunman. Just doesn't work. Looking at the pictures and he looks less like Jim Hellwig and more like Ed Leslie
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Tony Schiavontay
Dennis Stamp
This is the greatest post in the history of this board!
Posts: 4,083
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Post by Tony Schiavontay on Sept 16, 2016 17:51:49 GMT -5
Perfect analogy, and also that is the only reason Hogan/WCW wanted Warrior. Its also the reason they went after Yokozuna during the wars too, so he could get that win back as well. Iv always been amazed at how a guy can be so insecure about his win/loss record in fake fights. With both Warrior and Yoko it was 8yrs each, in a different company, yet Hogan still needed his wins back ! He also refused to return for a rematch with Lesnar at Survivor Series 2002 because he wouldn't get his win back. I recall hearing that he also refused to return for Wrestlemania 23 when they wanted to celebrate the 20th anniversary of Hogan vs Andre by putting him against Big Show or Khali but didn't want to do a job.
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 17, 2016 16:57:25 GMT -5
What the hell were they thinking? Even Mean Gene is thinking "f*** this". Mean Gene is always out to sell whatever you want him to sell but he's not selling the f***ing Renegade. It's just ridiculous that WCW spent so much time promoting that the Ultimate Warrior was coming when they knew full well he wasn't going to be there. Instead they pick a random WCW Saturday Night opening match Powerplant jobber and dress him up in a similar getup, give him a name with no thought put into it and try to pass it off as the real thing. People are going to notice. There's a lot to say about the Ultimate Warrior as a talent in the ring but no matter how sloppy and basic a lot of his work was, he was a star. His offense was all he needed for what his gimmick was and almost enhanced it. He had a unique charisma that made it easy to really believe that he was a complete madman completely on the edge. This guy. Does not. It would be like if Bret had resolved his contract issues with Vince in 97 and WCW dressed Jerry Flynn in pink and black tights and called him The Gunman. Just doesn't work. Looking at the pictures and he looks less like Jim Hellwig and more like Ed Leslie Crutus "The Carver" Cheesecake was #2 on WCW's list of shitty knock off ideas for this poor guy
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