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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2016 22:38:22 GMT -5
So because someone can't do a move right it needs to be stopped? I love dives especially King Cuerno's, his is the best. There's, "Somebody can't do a move right," and then there's, "Someone who routinely used the move as a major part of his moveset just retired for reasons potentially related and multiple people are botching it on a constant basis."
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Derk!
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Post by Derk! on Sept 25, 2016 23:25:45 GMT -5
The way he tucked, I wonder if he wasn't trying for a bit of hilo so his back would crash on the barrier and play that into his past injury and the end of the match. If they were gonna do that type finish, he should have dove over the top rope and give him some more room to flip properly. Still, just an ugly spot altogether...
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Post by Lazy peon on Sept 25, 2016 23:36:30 GMT -5
Enough with the f***ing suicide dives. Not even because they might be dangerous, but because I'm sick of seeing them EVERY. SINGLE. MATCH.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Sept 25, 2016 23:38:53 GMT -5
Some people can do a safe Suicide Dive, but between Cesaro tonight, Big E's Suicide Spear, and Sasha's Dives, if they banned the Suicide Dive altogether, I wouldn't be mad. Though if someone does a Suicide Dive right, Austin Aries, his are awesome as hell.
Honestly the slingshot Plancha feels like a safer move these days...
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Post by Psy on Sept 25, 2016 23:49:23 GMT -5
He doesn't even extend his arms forward for the dive, that's one of the things that makes it a "safe" dive, you can break your fall much more easily with your arms already out.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2016 0:00:12 GMT -5
As I said in the other thread. Why would a guy who is 6'4 with extremely long legs attempt to a somersault dive like Tyson Kidd did on the side of the ring closest to the barricades? Like if you're going to try at least attempt it on the entrance side. I don't think you should ban suicide dives based on guys hurting themselves who shouldn't be doing suicide dives in the first place. A guy like Sami Zayn or Seth Rollins or AJ Styles can do these maneuvers a 1000 times in a row without hurting themselves or others. I do hate how most WWE matches these days are starting to progress into finisher kickout spotfests so they can get the easy "This is Awesome" chant.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Sept 26, 2016 0:36:04 GMT -5
As I said in the other thread. Why would a guy who is 6'4 with extremely long legs attempt to a somersault dive like Tyson Kidd did on the side of the ring closest to the barricades? Like if you're going to try at least attempt it on the entrance side. I don't think you should ban suicide dives based on guys hurting themselves who shouldn't be doing suicide dives in the first place. A guy like Sami Zayn or Seth Rollins or AJ Styles can do these maneuvers a 1000 times in a row without hurting themselves or others. I do hate how most WWE matches these days are starting to progress into finisher kickout spotfests so they can get the easy "This is Awesome" chant. What's crazy is that it works almost every time. The crowd is conditioned at this point to chant that after kickouts or crazy moves, even if it's total silence before and after the chant.
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Post by Ryushinku on Sept 26, 2016 2:56:16 GMT -5
It doesn't have the velocity of the Lita one, and he doesn't do the full scorpion legs-to-the-back-of-the-head kind of deal she did, but that's a lot more weight coming down on his noggin there.
Suicide dives should be banned, just don't need them. Body press dives over the top rope, okay, but head first dives are severaly dumb at this point.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Sept 26, 2016 4:43:05 GMT -5
Watching the gif enough times I also notice that his feet hit the top rope as he is diving between the ropes, which surely factored into how the dive played out. Of course that just points to why he, and other guys with his build, should not be doing these kind of spots.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 26, 2016 4:45:36 GMT -5
Watching the gif enough times I also notice that his feet hit the top rope as he is diving between the ropes, which surely factored into how the dive played out. Of course that just points to why he, and other guys with his build, should not be doing these kind of spots. Harper always seemed to get away with it, but the way he does it, he lands on his feet and I think turns a little to the side. He probably shouldn't do it, either, but in his case, a lot of it is just that it's probably not terribly pleasant to take one from a guy his size.
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Post by feartear on Sept 26, 2016 5:04:51 GMT -5
I long for the moment in which the crowd will start booing any Suicide Dive.
Seriously, it's not even spectacular anymore if each and every wrestler does it.
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Post by Psy on Sept 26, 2016 5:07:55 GMT -5
When I learned to do dives I pretty much always had my arms out, and tried to land on my feet as much as possible. The floor is generally hard as f***, unless you're wrestling in a barn and there's hay, in which case it slightly less hard than f*** but it's scratchy & itchy and you're probably getting an infection.
Where was I? Yeah. I'm tired of these spots being regular happenings. I appreciate the story told in this match, they're both going all out, doing different things trying to surprise their opponent after having multiple matches before this one. The suicide dive makes sense in this match. What doesn't make sense is leaving it to that stage of the match, and doing it in a very unsafe way. I'm not going to pretend that I am or ever was the sort of talent that Cesaro is. I was a terrible spot monkey with little understanding of or appreciation for proper story-telling & psychology. Even so, you wouldn't catch me doing something like that.
I watched a "holy shit" compilation on Youtube today, it was about 90% indie wrestling spots that should never have happened. Things that could easily paralyze or outright kill a person just to pop a crowd of 100 or so. It's not worth it. It's not worth it in the indies, it's not worth it in WWE. We have seen more than enough have careers and even lives cut short. The trick is to make it look real while minimizing the risk. I don't want to be posting in a "RIP Cesaro" thread in 3 years' time. f***ing stop it, please.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Sept 26, 2016 8:54:47 GMT -5
I thought Seth Rollins going headfirst into the barricade was pretty bad too.
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Magnus the Magnificent
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Sept 26, 2016 9:43:52 GMT -5
Sheamus going shoulder first into the barricade, at that speed, can't have been too pleasant either.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Sept 26, 2016 10:06:04 GMT -5
I'll tell you, the only time I've been legit scared watching a spot was when Lita landed on her head doing that dumb spot.
Just stop it already.
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Sept 26, 2016 13:07:13 GMT -5
With this, Big E's and Sasha's recently they either need to be told to slow it up, be safe or just stop them all together.
Everything seems to be 300mph these days and they've been extremely lucky not to have had a serious injury.
I'll be very surprised if Cesaro is fine, I know reports said he's okay but he needs an MRI scan I would have thought. Get checked out and don't do that dumb shit again.
If you can get a massive pop for a stupidly silly move like the Big Swing then why do this? There's a reason why The Rock stuck with the People's Elbow and didn't try a Phoenix Splash.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2016 13:25:37 GMT -5
Aesthetically this move looks idiotic. At least a dive where you look like you're trying to tackle the guy's upper torso, or going to headbutt the other guy on his head but putting your hands out, looks better. Still a risk given how you can land, but there's cushioning and the others can pretty much hold you and let you fall safely with them.
This just looked like he was trying to break his neck. Man's athletic as hell but you should not try to prove that with a move that looks like this, since there really is no damn good way to land when he's got his head angled down like that.
Seriously why the hell was Cesaro aiming his head for Sheamus' stomach?! Sheamus was in no place to protect his fall better, which the move needed.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Sept 26, 2016 14:04:33 GMT -5
Some people can do a safe Suicide Dive, but between Cesaro tonight, Big E's Suicide Spear, and Sasha's Dives, if they banned the Suicide Dive altogether, I wouldn't be mad. Though if someone does a Suicide Dive right, Austin Aries, his are awesome as hell. Honestly the slingshot Plancha feels like a safer move these days... I said it in another thread, but they really need to have an "Evan Bourne bringing back the SSP" situation, have people show that they can do it safely and consistently in order to be allowed to use it, otherwise it's banned.
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Post by progwd on Sept 26, 2016 16:47:29 GMT -5
I saw a longer version of this gif earlier and Sheamus stabilized Cesaro's neck after the dive, as if Sheamus thought Cesaro had a broken freakin' neck. True professional.
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Post by xCompackx on Sept 26, 2016 16:57:37 GMT -5
I honestly believe we're to the point where talent would rather do a risky spot and hurt themselves if it leads to a positive crowd reaction than wrestle a safe match, still get their stuff in, and remain healthy. Why is WWE okay with this shit? Why aren't they telling Cesaro or Big E or Sasha to calm it down with the unnecessary dives to the outside when there's been people who have had to retire due to neck injuries? It makes no sense to me. Even worse, these dives aren't even that impressive a lot of the time since so many people do them so it's barely worth the risk.
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