"Magic" Mark Hurr
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Here, have some chili dogs
Not related to Phantasmo
Posts: 15,847
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Post by "Magic" Mark Hurr on Sept 29, 2016 2:46:43 GMT -5
WWE comes off as a trend chaser. They also paint themselves into corners of time when they abuse the art of misdirection.
We joke about the shareholders stuff, but when a company of this size does business they have to make good on promises and projections. This leaves little room for the improvisation and character development needed to capture attention like it used to.
What NXT is now was cultivated and groomed to be. Infrastructure had to be established and big names were still out there to reintroduced and utilized through that machine.
Also people's taste has been flakey now for a long time. You have people who like what is prepared for them and you have people who like the unique byproducts that come from a small alteration by how something was prepared when it wasn't the intention. And WWE's idea of course correction is telling it's loyal fans that they don't know what they are talking about. We may not know how to wrestle 5 star matches, but plenty of us are in creative fields of business or are just extremely creative people. We know when a story is good and when it is complete Shit. And we damn sure know when our willingness to be a mark is being taken for granted.
And with how things are done now. The reaction to an event is the star, not the event itself. This also shoots them in the foot be for the race. I look forward to the Mark Remark more than the show itself. But the Mark Remark exist because people do know exactly what they are watching.
WWE prides itself on how many people are fans and routinely tries to redefine who their fans are for outsiders. It's like your significant other having different titles for what you are depending on who they are around at the time.
We're at the point where WWE and their fans have needed couples therapy for a long time. WWE wants this open relationship, but anyone on the outside looking has grown out of that idea, or already WWE's idea of it.
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魔界5号
Hank Scorpio
No. 1 FAN Poster You Want To Hug
Posts: 6,324
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Post by 魔界5号 on Sept 29, 2016 2:52:36 GMT -5
Memes? Dank memes? The kids like that right? "Mauro, he got rocked with that one! I bet he's feeling like pe-pay-pee-pe-, Peepee The Frog right now!" "It's him Corey! It's him! It's dat boi! Waddup!" "We've officially hit hour 3, so you know what that means! Real Maggle hours! If yo ass is up, you better smash dat mf like button on the only official WWE FaceBook page fam"
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Post by Super Duper Dragunov on Sept 29, 2016 2:56:56 GMT -5
Step 1. Listen to your fans, they will guide you Step 2. Stop making uncool shit, and forcing it on everyone. Cool shit happens organically. And when it happens. Run with it. Who cares if he's Too Swiss to you. Step 3. Let people be themselves. Stop scripting promos word for word. Fire your writers, they're horrible.
You have to make wrestling approachable again before it can be cool again.
You have to make people want to stick around, and no one wants to stick around if we're constantly being told "no what you want isn't good enough, here you want this".
NXT is the closest wrestling's come, but they follow the steps.
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mrbananagrabber
King Koopa
Paul Heyman's unofficial joke writer
Posts: 11,823
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Sept 29, 2016 8:43:57 GMT -5
I don't see it ever happening no matter what they do. Biggest movie star there is right now is wholly a product of theirs and still shows up occasionally and it hasn't really helped at all. Occasionally? Dude, Miz is there every week, that qualifies as more than occasionally. Had to read that one twice.
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A damn road sign
Samurai Cop
"What the hell am I? A school crossing?"
Posts: 2,424
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Post by A damn road sign on Sept 29, 2016 8:46:54 GMT -5
Show more of 'the tit.'
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Post by Gremlin on Sept 29, 2016 8:50:29 GMT -5
Do a free-form jazz exploration in front of a festival crowd.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2016 11:52:15 GMT -5
Embrace what they are, and stop chasing mainstream appeal.
I think a simpler production would be better, too. Or at least just a different production. I think a slightly grimier, scaled down production to remind you of the old days of smoke filled halls would give it a different aesthetic, and might attract a more hip and niche market.
Let me put it this way.. imagine WWE with the aesthetic of a Lucha Underground. I don't necessarily mean the wild and zany storylines, but the dirty and sweaty looking venue that's not washed out with bright lights. Smaller crowds, but hot crowds.
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zappa
Trap-Jaw
Posts: 311
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Post by zappa on Sept 29, 2016 11:55:00 GMT -5
Make it less about the fake wrestling match.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Sept 29, 2016 11:56:00 GMT -5
All Wrestlers wear leather jackets and sunglasses at all times.
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schizo
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,575
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Post by schizo on Sept 29, 2016 12:24:14 GMT -5
Have Bob Backland manage it
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Sept 29, 2016 12:38:17 GMT -5
Nothing. I don't think it's something that WWE can control. Entertainment is becoming more niche as a whole. The business has reverted to a mean.
I don't think wrestling is going to gain a mass increase of viewers anytime soon regardless of how good the quality is at this point. There's not going to be any booms equivalent to what we saw in the 1980s for a while. Pop culture is just different now.
This is just how things are going to be for a while.
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Post by abjordans on Sept 29, 2016 12:47:45 GMT -5
They need.to fully embrace their very strong foothold in the internet/hipster/,niche market. That is their future and that demo supports with their wallet.
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Post by Big Bad Kahuna on Sept 29, 2016 13:02:46 GMT -5
First thing that popped into my mind funnily enough Well Bayley & Naomi in hotpants facing Alexa & Emma in wet t-shirts wouldn't be the worst thing I could imagine
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ssdrivin
ALF
Claims to be squishy, has yet to be proven.
Posts: 1,042
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Post by ssdrivin on Sept 29, 2016 13:06:23 GMT -5
I'm not sure it's possible, at least not by WWE alone. The Attitude Era hit lucky, there was the general zeitgeist of the late 90s, the competition to inspire them to take risks, a more consolidated entertainment industry and social attitudes towards it, and a lot less competition from other media types and channels or the internet. How do you compete with that much media? You have to be must-see TV, that requires gripping, engaging, unmissable storylines, identifiable characters you can get behind and see (eventually) win out. As discussed in some of the "why do you hate RAW?" threads, there are so many other things people can go and do, the product must give people something they can't bear to miss. Unpredictability, storylines that actually go places, less forcing talent into spots, less aborted plans, less hammering things into the ground until they're bland paste. Maybe there needs to be an off-season, distance makes the heart grow fonder, cliffhangers are annoying, but if you get the timing right you can have people begging to see the product again, at least until they give up and forget you existed. Oh, and don't try to be cool, it's obvious, it's painful, and it comes across like a guy in a suit trying to figure out what "the hip kids are digging these days" because "we need to hit those demographics".
(Edit: I'd add that I'm not sure going back to the Attitude Era would help either, because it's probably not that shocking to a lot of people any more. A lot of edgy media isn't that edgy any more, and even if it was I don't think the WWE could pull off that stuff any more, societal sensibilities and sensitivities are different now. Unless your sole aim is to get in the news for being the shittiest, most insensitive, racist, homophobic, sexist, tone-deaf, ignorant, sleazy and most disgusting media company ever to be allowed to broadcast, well, I think trying to take that route in the present day would be a mistake. But I do think that safe violence and mild language is important in a wrestling promotion, it enhances and helps strengthen the suspension of disbelief. You wouldn't write a movie about a guy who's trying to kill another guy, and then only show them slapping people or yelling childish insults at each other, it just doesn't illustrate the narrative.)
I also think that it's the style of this era (generally, not WWE era) which dictates that all media needs to be sparkly, clean, bright, highly lit, sharp, ultra HD because the technology means that's the new standard. WWE have embraced that whole-heartedly, but I think that's made it feel too sterile and corporate, where's the dirt, the grunge, the atmosphere? The presentation has lost its personality, especially for the extended periods of uninteresting or samey stage design, just the same old LED boards in the same old configuration. Where's the Smackdown fist? The old industrial looking stage trusses? The Backlash swinging hooks? Even the stupid Cyber Sunday phone/computer-looking stages? I don't know if it's possible to fix some of this, nobody's going to tune into VHS-quality wrestling, but maybe it doesn't have to be as pristine as it is right now, and maybe it needs more variety, something interesting to change things up a bit visually.
That's only my personal view, obviously, and I don't know whether doing those things would enhance the appeal to others as well as myself, maybe it's just never going to be "cool" ever again and it just got lucky a few times in the 80s and 90s, but I don't think their current style of "quit complaining, look at all these crazy athletic wrestlers!" is quite cutting it. If athleticism was all I wanted from wrestling, I'd watch the Olympics or, I dunno, actual combat sports, or field sports, or running, or... well, you get the idea. That's not why I watch wrestling, and maybe it's not why some other people watch it either.
tl;dr - Aggression, grunge, stories worth chewing on, stop making everything look so clean, give the brand some personality again, and don't try to be cool because it doesn't work that way.
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Sicho100
Hank Scorpio
Easily Confused.
Posts: 5,965
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Post by Sicho100 on Sept 29, 2016 13:46:22 GMT -5
They need the big money draw. They need their Rock or Austin. Their Conor McGregor or Ronda Rousey. That star will make wrestling cool again.
Now, there's obviously a lot of luck there - you can't exactly grow Hulk Hogans on trees. But they also need to create an environment that allows those talents to succeed.
That means enough with the mindset that they can't allow someone to be bigger than the brand - it just places a ceiling on the guys. It means crafting stories that are clear, that have meaningful progressions, and lead to a satisfying conclusion. It means giving guys time to get their personalities over in interviews and vignettes. It means taking the show seriously - enough with the "Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, we know this isn't real." mindset. It means making the superstars the actual starts of the show - enough with the show just being the authority figure's toy box. And it means being willing to listen to the crowd - if something's getting over, run with it; if it isn't (cough cough Roman cough) work to fix it.
Then, when that top talent comes along, they will bring in new fans and make it cool again.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Sept 29, 2016 13:47:40 GMT -5
Sign me to a deal.
Telling you right now. Give me 4 months to hype up a match with that lame Finn Balor and we'll sell out the Garden.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2016 13:59:51 GMT -5
Be more real.
No, not the in ring stuff, but the characters. Look at the most genuinely over babyfaces they've had over the last 7 or 8 years. Off the top of my head; Jeff Hardy, CM Punk, and Daniel Bryan. They all had one thing in common, and that was being real. Jeff is a weirdly charismatic, laid back guy in real life. That's what we saw on TV. It was authentic. He wasn't trying to make jokes. He was basically Jeff. Punk is a douchebag who is great on the mic. Same deal. If you push more authentic characters, then live crowds will react better, and maybe if you get lucky one of them hits mainstream levels of acceptance. With their current model, forget it.
They also need to act more PG and less G. As Kevin Nash said in a shoot, kids in the 4th grade say more intimidating things than the WWE stars do. I understand they have sponsors and all to think about but don't insult people's intelligence with the overly scripted mic work. It comes off incredibly lame, and the casual fan will laugh at it (in a bad way).
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Post by thetower52 on Sept 29, 2016 14:02:45 GMT -5
Less corporate buzz words would be a nice step
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Sept 29, 2016 14:05:31 GMT -5
Here's what I think can help it.
When the CM Punk Pipebomb happened and when he returned they should've ran with him. He brought the WWE a lot of mainstream attention with his promo, showing up at promotions with the belt, and when he returned he had a lot of people talking about the product. Even non-fans were interested too.
It seems whenever they have something cool, exciting, and unique that could potentially bring them money they panic and downplay it. Stop getting so angry, vindictive, and petty when fans aren't into the product that you're presenting. Vince takes the response of the fans so personally when they weren't receptive to Cena, Reigns, and even a face New Day that he attempts to force the act down the fans throats until they accept it. That's not how you conduct business. You listen to your customers, change what they don't like, and go with it instead of just giving them the finger and going with the direction anyways.
Make it clear on who is a good and bad. The faces act like heels and the heels don't act heelish at all. Have the titles mean something, bring back kayfabe, stop this twitter/social media obsession and do it old school again.
Stop trying to present the WWE like a cinematic event. It's professional wrestling, it will always be professional wrestling. Deal with it and stop being afraid of what you really are.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Sept 29, 2016 14:06:34 GMT -5
Stop insulting your viewers intelligence. Hell, stop insulting your viewers directly.
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