lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,766
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Post by lucas_lee on Nov 9, 2016 16:36:25 GMT -5
I'm one of the 46.9% without getting too political I refused to vote for candidates I didn't believe in. I also refuse to vote for a perceived lesser evil, that's not what the USA shouldn't be about and I hope 2020 will have better candidates than this spectacle That's totally cool provided that you're not upset about Trump winning. I respect the right to not vote, but it loses some of it's luster when you then complain. ** I used "you're" and "you" in a general sense. Was not picking a fight with you personally** My main complaint was this election felt more like a preschool argument than a presidential debate. We as a country can do better
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Nov 9, 2016 16:38:23 GMT -5
I will just throw my two cents in by saying that government health insurance in Massachusetts made sure I had insurance as a kid which was very needed and allowed my family to somewhat save money and dig themselves out of poverty. It could also be helpful to have a viable and cheap option for health insurance outside of your employers so that they could spend money on other things (like wages( and people can afford to work for startups and other small companies that do not offer competitive health plans (increasing competition and innovation). I am not saying this solution is perfect (Canada has some issues even though I largely like their system better) and it has not helped skyrocketing costs of healthcare in the United States - but it can do some good. Unfortunately, it is just hard to design a healthcare system without winners and losers. I am sure we all know someone who has faced issues thanks to the ACA. However, it is nice to ensure people have health insurance at a bare minimum which I think increased government access can do. It would likely be cheaper and easier to implement if states has their own health insurance models. If the GOP could say they'd work federally with state governors to aid in the implementation of different plans based on the needs of the states I'd be pretty optimistic... but I have my doubts. Federal government and state government tend to not yield power to one another.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Nov 9, 2016 16:44:34 GMT -5
...I stated use auto insurance as a template, and then went on to explain that people are required by law to have it, but that there's no government option that stifles competition between companies. Therefore you emulate that aspect and apply it to health insurance. Let's look at the ACA (Obamacare) - Everyone's required to have insurance - Only the very poor get a public insurance option - Everyone else has to get insurance from a private company, with only a few also are set up where the government helps pay for it. Basically, what you advocate is more or less what we have right now. This is what Trump wants to ditch. The only thing is that the thing that he wants to ditch actually has things in place that prevents the private companies from completely fleecing their customers the way that they used to. Less things can be denied. There isn't a cap on coverage. There is a cap on profits which requires people being given cash back if more than 20% profits were realized by the companies. This means that you advocate a version of the ACA where the insurance companies can fleece the entire country, not just those who elected to get coverage under them. This means I advocate a style of health insurance coverage that supports competition between companies, forcing them to provide better or cheaper insurance or else risk losing customers to other companies which do provide better or cheaper insurance. Yet another example are cell phone companies. While there isn't a law requiring everyone have one, they have become indisposable to the point of becoming essential. As such, we the consumer win because there is so much competition out there. Yes, many past generation companies have been gobbled up, but now we see new smaller companies emerging, with Tracfone being an obvious successful one. Now I'll sit back and wait for people to misinterpret THAT example and accuse me of wanting everyone turned into cell phones or something.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Nov 9, 2016 16:46:45 GMT -5
I will just throw my two cents in by saying that government health insurance in Massachusetts made sure I had insurance as a kid which was very needed and allowed my family to somewhat save money and dig themselves out of poverty. It could also be helpful to have a viable and cheap option for health insurance outside of your employers so that they could spend money on other things (like wages( and people can afford to work for startups and other small companies that do not offer competitive health plans (increasing competition and innovation). I am not saying this solution is perfect (Canada has some issues even though I largely like their system better) and it has not helped skyrocketing costs of healthcare in the United States - but it can do some good. Unfortunately, it is just hard to design a healthcare system without winners and losers. I am sure we all know someone who has faced issues thanks to the ACA. However, it is nice to ensure people have health insurance at a bare minimum which I think increased government access can do. It would likely be cheaper and easier to implement if states has their own health insurance models. If the GOP could say they'd work federally with state governors to aid in the implementation of different plans based on the needs of the states I'd be pretty optimistic... but I have my doubts. Federal government and state government tend to not yield power to one another. Now this is interesting. We have a couple posters on here from states that have their own insurance. If we could hear from them, what makes their state level government option successful?
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Nov 9, 2016 16:50:11 GMT -5
Well The ACA was based heavily on MassHealth.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Nov 9, 2016 16:53:01 GMT -5
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Post by sternrogers01 on Nov 9, 2016 16:57:39 GMT -5
Can we say "FIRE DUTCH" now on the finish he booked?
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,451
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Post by FinalGwen on Nov 9, 2016 16:58:32 GMT -5
My girlfriend is extremely worried right now. With the changes the Republicans are planning on for social security, her grandma will likely not be able to afford the house she lives in. She also has no real avenues for health insurance. Pretty much our only hope is that the Tories over here won't change the immigration rules further and that I'll be able to meet their rather insane marriage visa requirements. But so many people don't have that option for escape.
All I can say is that to those in the most danger from what's to come, whether they're under the LGBT umbrella, Muslim, Mexican or more broadly Latino, disabled, in poverty or on the breadline, stay safe. There are people out there who are worried about you and care for you. Even when the politics ban comes into play again, we'll be here rooting for you. I hope everyone can come together to provide some protections for you.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,375
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Nov 9, 2016 16:59:43 GMT -5
Let's look at the ACA (Obamacare) - Everyone's required to have insurance - Only the very poor get a public insurance option - Everyone else has to get insurance from a private company, with only a few also are set up where the government helps pay for it. Basically, what you advocate is more or less what we have right now. This is what Trump wants to ditch. The only thing is that the thing that he wants to ditch actually has things in place that prevents the private companies from completely fleecing their customers the way that they used to. Less things can be denied. There isn't a cap on coverage. There is a cap on profits which requires people being given cash back if more than 20% profits were realized by the companies. This means that you advocate a version of the ACA where the insurance companies can fleece the entire country, not just those who elected to get coverage under them. This means I advocate a style of health insurance coverage that supports competition between companies, forcing them to provide better or cheaper insurance or else risk losing customers to other companies which do provide better or cheaper insurance. Yet another example are cell phone companies. While there isn't a law requiring everyone have one, they have become indisposable to the point of becoming essential. As such, we the consumer win because there is so much competition out there. Yes, many past generation companies have been gobbled up, but now we see new smaller companies emerging, with Tracfone being an obvious successful one. Now I'll sit back and wait for people to misinterpret THAT example and accuse me of wanting everyone turned into cell phones or something. You are missing the point. That competition between insurance companies exists NOW. It also existed BEFORE the ACA. It isn't a pipedream from an idealist time after the ACA. They just never let the pressure get to them as much because it truly is a vital service. Demand is extremely high, which means that the market dictates that the price can be as high as the market possibly can bear. What happens when you make it mandatory? It increases demand EVEN MORE. To run with your cell phone analogy, however, highlights another problem. Cell phone service is insane when you provide it for a family. My cell phone bill is about $240/month, and that is for a service that, while extremely convenient, is not necessary. Make it a requirement for everyone to have one and the price goes up even more. Lastly, Tracfone can enter into the market by providing a cheap, albeit vastly inferior alternative. What would a cheap, albeit vastly inferior health insurance policy look like? Basically, it is not really much better than not having insurance. What's the point?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 17:03:21 GMT -5
46.9% of eligible voters DIDN'T VOTE?!? I'm one of the 46.9% without getting too political I refused to vote for candidates I didn't believe in. I also refuse to vote for a perceived lesser evil, that's not what the USA shouldn't be about and I hope 2020 will have better candidates than this spectacle I admire your convictions. I wish I could do that, but local/state elections are rather important on my well-being. So I either vote out the guys not doing their job, or vote for the first guy I get a "positive" piece of mail from. Not this flood about "this guy's a dirtbag/this guy's a bigger douchebag" shit.
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Post by fuzzywarble, squat cobbler on Nov 9, 2016 17:03:39 GMT -5
I'm just sad that we're living in a society where Trump supporters like myself are afraid to voice our excitement publicly, for fear of reprisal.
You've seen how Trump supporters are treated by people who hate him.
This is why I likely won't say anything on social media regarding the results - even to offer my liberal friends a heart-felt message of condolence.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Nov 9, 2016 17:07:29 GMT -5
This means I advocate a style of health insurance coverage that supports competition between companies, forcing them to provide better or cheaper insurance or else risk losing customers to other companies which do provide better or cheaper insurance. Yet another example are cell phone companies. While there isn't a law requiring everyone have one, they have become indisposable to the point of becoming essential. As such, we the consumer win because there is so much competition out there. Yes, many past generation companies have been gobbled up, but now we see new smaller companies emerging, with Tracfone being an obvious successful one. Now I'll sit back and wait for people to misinterpret THAT example and accuse me of wanting everyone turned into cell phones or something. You are missing the point. That competition between insurance companies exists NOW. It also existed BEFORE the ACA. It isn't a pipedream from an idealist time after the ACA. They just never let the pressure get to them as much because it truly is a vital service. Demand is extremely high, which means that the market dictates that the price can be as high as the market possibly can bear. What happens when you make it mandatory? It increases demand EVEN MORE. To run with your cell phone analogy, however, highlights another problem. Cell phone service is insane when you provide it for a family. My cell phone bill is about $240/month, and that is for a service that, while extremely convenient, is not necessary. Make it a requirement for everyone to have one and the price goes up even more. Lastly, Tracfone can enter into the market by providing a cheap, albeit vastly inferior alternative. What would a cheap, albeit vastly inferior health insurance policy look like? Basically, it is not really much better than not having insurance. What's the point? And you're missing another component of my idea that has been present from my first post onward, and is farrrrrrrr more contentious than anything else I've said. You need to eliminate the government option. No business can compete with government, with its unlimited budget to draw upon, and limited if any accountability in spending. If my idea is so heinously wrong, why does it seem to work for so many other service oriented areas?
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Spider2024
Patti Mayonnaise
Dedicated 6,666th post to Irontyger
I believe in Joe Hendry.
Posts: 39,365
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Post by Spider2024 on Nov 9, 2016 17:08:41 GMT -5
I've heard a lot about how costs for a lot of things will go up. Did Trump say anything about how he would put more money in our pockets? I think he said he would lower taxes, I know one of his attacks was that Clinton would raise taxes, so is he going to lower them?
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Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
Had one once
Everybody's Favorite Arizonian.
Posts: 31,082
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Nov 9, 2016 17:11:25 GMT -5
I'm just sad that we're living in a society where Trump supporters like myself are afraid to voice our excitement publicly, for fear of reprisal. You've seen how Trump supporters are treated by people who hate him. This is why I likely won't say anything on social media regarding the results - even to offer my liberal friends a heart-felt message of condolence. I'm sure they'll appreciate that as their rights are slowly stripped away these next four years.
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Nov 9, 2016 17:11:55 GMT -5
I've heard a lot about how costs for a lot of things will go up. Did Trump say anything about how he would put more money in our pockets? I think he said he would lower taxes, I know one of his attacks was that Clinton would raise taxes, so is he going to lower them? He'll lower them for the rich.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,161
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Nov 9, 2016 17:13:37 GMT -5
I've heard a lot about how costs for a lot of things will go up. Did Trump say anything about how he would put more money in our pockets? I think he said he would lower taxes, I know one of his attacks was that Clinton would raise taxes, so is he going to lower them? He'll lower them for the rich. Trickle down, it's been working SO well the last 35 years.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 17:13:43 GMT -5
Trump just makes statements but I don't even know if he explains how he'll do it and if he can do it in general. Fact is, we're all scared and we're all scrambling. I'm living paycheck to paycheck in an apartment of my own so hearing all of this makes me wonder what'll happen to me. I just don't know. I don't feel safe but with that said I'm not giving up hope. I've got an avenue, I work hard and I've got talent in what I do in life. I'll make a way if I don't see a way regardless of who's running this country. For everyone else, you all have what it takes too. We just have to do what we can as one.
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,766
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Post by lucas_lee on Nov 9, 2016 17:18:48 GMT -5
I'm one of the 46.9% without getting too political I refused to vote for candidates I didn't believe in. I also refuse to vote for a perceived lesser evil, that's not what the USA shouldn't be about and I hope 2020 will have better candidates than this spectacle I admire your convictions. I wish I could do that, but local/state elections are rather important on my well-being. So I either vote out the guys not doing their job, or vote for the first guy I get a "positive" piece of mail from. Not this flood about "this guy's a dirtbag/this guy's a bigger douchebag" shit. Thats the biggest problem I have with this election. We'really not here to elect the candidate whose the nicest personality but whose fit to run the country. Neither to me felt worthy of running America as both were trying to trump the other of who can prove the other is the bigger douchebag
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Nov 9, 2016 17:19:00 GMT -5
I've heard a lot about how costs for a lot of things will go up. Did Trump say anything about how he would put more money in our pockets? I think he said he would lower taxes, I know one of his attacks was that Clinton would raise taxes, so is he going to lower them? None of his plans have ever been fleshed out in any serious detail, and he has taken opposite positions on so many things that if you could harness the energy of him spinning you could power a major metropolitan area. So who knows?
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Shai
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,507
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Post by Shai on Nov 9, 2016 17:26:37 GMT -5
I'm just sad that we're living in a society where Trump supporters like myself are afraid to voice our excitement publicly, for fear of reprisal. You've seen how Trump supporters are treated by people who hate him. This is why I likely won't say anything on social media regarding the results - even to offer my liberal friends a heart-felt message of condolence. I hope you get everything you want and need from Trump being President. But you have to respect that him and Pence's track records frighten a lot of people. Pence in pictular scares my LGBTQ friends something kinda terrible. So excuse us who can't watch people celebrate what might be the end of life as we know it.
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