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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 18, 2018 0:53:46 GMT -5
Pirate fans have started a petition asking MLB to force Pirates owner Bob Nutting to sell the team after the team's recent tradings of Gerrit Cole and McCutchen Sadly, they are about to go back to the struggle and L's It wasn't that long ago that they finally broke out the funk to make some noise and now it's broken apart
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Post by sfvega on Jan 18, 2018 5:15:25 GMT -5
Pirate fans have started a petition asking MLB to force Pirates owner Bob Nutting to sell the team after the team's recent tradings of Gerrit Cole and McCutchen Sadly, they are about to go back to the struggle and L's It wasn't that long ago that they finally broke out the funk to make some noise and now it's broken apart I don't really blame them for the rebuild. A lot of things went wrong for them. Cutch fell off, Polanco didn't really maintain his breakout, Glasnow was supposed to be great, Cole fell off and can't even be consistent inning-to-inning, much less start-to-start. These guys were key pieces/prospects to the viability of contending soon and they are all over the place. As a Cards fan, I'm torn. I'm glad they won't be as good as they were projected to be. But I do feel for the fanbase of a team who went from a laughing stock to a team seemingly 2/3rds of the way up the mountain to a title, only to walk it all the way back.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 18, 2018 12:44:34 GMT -5
Sadly, they are about to go back to the struggle and L's It wasn't that long ago that they finally broke out the funk to make some noise and now it's broken apart I don't really blame them for the rebuild. A lot of things went wrong for them. Cutch fell off, Polanco didn't really maintain his breakout, Glasnow was supposed to be great, Cole fell off and can't even be consistent inning-to-inning, much less start-to-start. These guys were key pieces/prospects to the viability of contending soon and they are all over the place. As a Cards fan, I'm torn. I'm glad they won't be as good as they were projected to be. But I do feel for the fanbase of a team who went from a laughing stock to a team seemingly 2/3rds of the way up the mountain to a title, only to walk it all the way back. They had to make that trade and I don't blame them. They botched it imo but you had to get something back for premier pieces. They have some young players coming up in the system but it's time for a rebuild or retooling which is what they seem to be calling it Right now teams feel hurt in that division because of the Cubs having a stronghold so if you are a team like the Pirates, you retool and plan for the next 3-4 years while a team like the Cardinals will continue to compete because they have the culture to keep things moving
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jan 18, 2018 21:52:33 GMT -5
I don't really blame them for the rebuild. A lot of things went wrong for them. Cutch fell off, Polanco didn't really maintain his breakout, Glasnow was supposed to be great, Cole fell off and can't even be consistent inning-to-inning, much less start-to-start. These guys were key pieces/prospects to the viability of contending soon and they are all over the place. As a Cards fan, I'm torn. I'm glad they won't be as good as they were projected to be. But I do feel for the fanbase of a team who went from a laughing stock to a team seemingly 2/3rds of the way up the mountain to a title, only to walk it all the way back. They had to make that trade and I don't blame them. They botched it imo but you had to get something back for premier pieces. They have some young players coming up in the system but it's time for a rebuild or retooling which is what they seem to be calling it Right now teams feel hurt in that division because of the Cubs having a stronghold so if you are a team like the Pirates, you retool and plan for the next 3-4 years while a team like the Cardinals will continue to compete because they have the culture to keep things moving The division right now, if the season started today would be a toss up between the Cardinals and Cubs. The Cubs still don't have a 5th starter and not sure who the closer is for them. Cardinals same issue in the bullpen and while they have 5 starters on paper, nobody knows for sure what they really have but they have movable parts. Now if the Cubs get that 5th starter they have a bigger edge if its someone we know what he will be. The bat side of things, most of the line ups are both really productive. Both teams still can make a move before spring training starts and likely will, Cubs more likely making the bigger move. The Brewers I thought would be up there but they haven't done much to improve and seems to be very quiet.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 18, 2018 21:56:53 GMT -5
They had to make that trade and I don't blame them. They botched it imo but you had to get something back for premier pieces. They have some young players coming up in the system but it's time for a rebuild or retooling which is what they seem to be calling it Right now teams feel hurt in that division because of the Cubs having a stronghold so if you are a team like the Pirates, you retool and plan for the next 3-4 years while a team like the Cardinals will continue to compete because they have the culture to keep things moving The division right now, if the season started today would be a toss up between the Cardinals and Cubs. The Cubs still don't have a 5th starter and not sure who the closer is for them. Cardinals same issue in the bullpen and while they have 5 starters on paper, nobody knows for sure what they really have but they have movable parts. Now if the Cubs get that 5th starter they have a bigger edge if its someone we know what he will be. The bat side of things, most of the line ups are both really productive. Both teams still can make a move before spring training starts and likely will, Cubs more likely making the bigger move. The Brewers I thought would be up there but they haven't done much to improve and seems to be very quiet. As I said before Brewers have a chance to make a big jump if they can get Arrieta and Cain but I don't think they are ready to commit to that yet despite the fact Braun is the only big money player on the roster I think you can get Arrieta on a slick 4 year deal with a mutual option for the 5th year and a 4/5year deal on Cain too
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jan 18, 2018 22:18:51 GMT -5
The division right now, if the season started today would be a toss up between the Cardinals and Cubs. The Cubs still don't have a 5th starter and not sure who the closer is for them. Cardinals same issue in the bullpen and while they have 5 starters on paper, nobody knows for sure what they really have but they have movable parts. Now if the Cubs get that 5th starter they have a bigger edge if its someone we know what he will be. The bat side of things, most of the line ups are both really productive. Both teams still can make a move before spring training starts and likely will, Cubs more likely making the bigger move. The Brewers I thought would be up there but they haven't done much to improve and seems to be very quiet. As I said before Brewers have a chance to make a big jump if they can get Arrieta and Cain but I don't think they are ready to commit to that yet despite the fact Braun is the only big money player on the roster I think you can get Arrieta on a slick 4 year deal with a mutual option for the 5th year and a 4/5year deal on Cain too I agree. More and more as we get closer to spring training I see deals like that becoming in, I think this bigger names will sign but for a much more club friendly deal, and for less as the expected because it's going to become a point. I have to sign some time, this is a look at most teams are getting smarter with the long term big contracts based on how they don't work out. Guys like Hosmer should have just taken the seven year deal he was offered because I don't think now he going to get a better offer, not like there is reports of a major bidding war over him to drive the reported offer up anymore. Unless that deal is off the table now, which may be.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 18, 2018 22:23:52 GMT -5
As I said before Brewers have a chance to make a big jump if they can get Arrieta and Cain but I don't think they are ready to commit to that yet despite the fact Braun is the only big money player on the roster I think you can get Arrieta on a slick 4 year deal with a mutual option for the 5th year and a 4/5year deal on Cain too I agree. More and more as we get closer to spring training I see deals like that becoming in, I think this bigger names will sign but for a much more club friendly deal, and for less as the expected because it's going to become a point. I have to sign some time, this is a look at most teams are getting smarter with the long term big contracts based on how they don't work out. Guys like Hosmer should have just taken the seven year deal he was offered because I don't think now he going to get a better offer, not like there is reports of a major bidding war over him to drive the reported offer up anymore. Unless that deal is off the table now, which may be. Problem is you got a lot of dudes reaching for big money that's laughable Someone like Yu Darvish can wait because his only competition is Arietta and they share the same market so of course neither wants to end up on the lower end but I still think Darvish gets $140 million from someone However, dudes like Hosmer and J.D. are hurting their value. Supposedly Martinez got offered over $100 million from Red Sox but he think he's a $160-$200 million dollar player. It has been reported that Hosmer got 7 year deals from Padres and Royals but he's sitting back. I don't expect teams to just jump in and spend money because players are there The only real team who might make a splash in Minnesota and they've been linked to Darvish all off season.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Jan 18, 2018 22:44:04 GMT -5
Gerrit Cole hasn't been good in 3 years and Cutch is going to give you 20-25 HR and bat .275, get rid of them, doesn't hurt.
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Post by sfvega on Jan 19, 2018 3:39:22 GMT -5
Gerrit Cole hasn't been good in 3 years and Cutch is going to give you 20-25 HR and bat .275, get rid of them, doesn't hurt. Not really. Cole was the Pirates leader in wins, innings, WHIP, K/9. He put up very similar numbers to Carlos Martinez last year, who was also a disappointment relative to expectations. But take them away, and their role looms larger than their stats. Maybe Taillon takes the next step, but even if he does you're still talking the staff with/without Cole. I think moving them and starting a rebuild is the right call, but to say it doesn't hurt is kinda crazy. They're obviously worse without those players.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Jan 19, 2018 7:10:42 GMT -5
Gerrit Cole hasn't been good in 3 years and Cutch is going to give you 20-25 HR and bat .275, get rid of them, doesn't hurt. Not really. Cole was the Pirates leader in wins, innings, WHIP, K/9. He put up very similar numbers to Carlos Martinez last year, who was also a disappointment relative to expectations. But take them away, and their role looms larger than their stats. Maybe Taillon takes the next step, but even if he does you're still talking the staff with/without Cole. I think moving them and starting a rebuild is the right call, but to say it doesn't hurt is kinda crazy. They're obviously worse without those players. Yeah he had 12 wins and an ERA of 4.26. Rather pedestrian.
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Post by sfvega on Jan 19, 2018 7:57:50 GMT -5
Not really. Cole was the Pirates leader in wins, innings, WHIP, K/9. He put up very similar numbers to Carlos Martinez last year, who was also a disappointment relative to expectations. But take them away, and their role looms larger than their stats. Maybe Taillon takes the next step, but even if he does you're still talking the staff with/without Cole. I think moving them and starting a rebuild is the right call, but to say it doesn't hurt is kinda crazy. They're obviously worse without those players. Yeah he had 12 wins and an ERA of 4.26. Rather pedestrian. Yeah, as his worst season in the majors. Teams don't lose their ace and lose nothing. This isn't fantasy baseball. Losing Cole hurts their rotation. Especially if it means Glasnow (2 wins, 7+ ERA) takes the open spot in the rotation. You're not replacing him with a league average pitcher. Their rotation was thin before. Cole has a career ERA in the mid-3's, he's in his prime. He eats innings and can bounce back (whether he does or not is a different issue). Their rotation is OBVIOUSLY worse without him. What kind of a talking point is that?
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 19, 2018 13:55:38 GMT -5
Yeah he had 12 wins and an ERA of 4.26. Rather pedestrian. Yeah, as his worst season in the majors. Teams don't lose their ace and lose nothing. This isn't fantasy baseball. Losing Cole hurts their rotation. Especially if it means Glasnow (2 wins, 7+ ERA) takes the open spot in the rotation. You're not replacing him with a league average pitcher. Their rotation was thin before. Cole has a career ERA in the mid-3's, he's in his prime. He eats innings and can bounce back (whether he does or not is a different issue). Their rotation is OBVIOUSLY worse without him. What kind of a talking point is that? They lost stability and their top of the rotation guy No matter how you slice it, that's going to hurt because you have to find two starters to replace him more than likely Nova probably takes Cole spot but then somebody has to fill his spot as well
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Jan 19, 2018 16:59:04 GMT -5
In a move to make more money, the Mets have invited Tebow to spring training.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 19, 2018 18:27:59 GMT -5
In a move to make more money, the Mets have invited Tebow to spring training. Mets fans have to be insulted by how money hungry they are but they won't spend like they should In other news Randall Grichuck has been traded to Blue Jays for RHP Dominic Leone and Connor Greene In a cold off season, Cardinals have made some trades to continue to revamp the team
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jan 19, 2018 20:58:27 GMT -5
In a move to make more money, the Mets have invited Tebow to spring training. Mets fans have to be insulted by how money hungry they are but they won't spend like they should In other news Randall Grichuck has been traded to Blue Jays for RHP Dominic Leone and Connor Greene In a cold off season, Cardinals have made some trades to continue to revamp the team While locals complain about it, I think both came out winners here. Randall didn't want to be a 4th or 5th OFer which in St. Louis he would been because we know Pham, Flower, and Ozuna are the starters, and he, Bader and Martinez would be battling for spots. He will be a starter in Toronto and the Cardinals go a couple good arms. If Leone does what he did last year great addition in the pen which we needed the help in still, and Greene very young and can throw a 100mph, Cardinals have one of the best Minor league staff for pitchers so he could be molded into a good pitcher, I believe he as control issues at the moment.
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Post by sfvega on Jan 19, 2018 21:26:03 GMT -5
I'll miss Grichuk and his streaky as hell power. But yeah, we've got too many outfielders as it is. Hope he's good in Toronto, that should be an ok fit for him. Very weird off-season, dealing Piscotty, Grichuk, and Diaz who at one point were the future at their positions.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jan 19, 2018 21:34:10 GMT -5
I'll miss Grichuk and his streaky as hell power. But yeah, we've got too many outfielders as it is. Hope he's good in Toronto, that should be an ok fit for him. Very weird off-season, dealing Piscotty, Grichuk, and Diaz who at one point were the future at their positions. Well been weird year period. Last years opening day line up. How many of those guys are on the team now and how many of them where starters by the All star break.
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Post by sfvega on Jan 19, 2018 21:53:14 GMT -5
I'll miss Grichuk and his streaky as hell power. But yeah, we've got too many outfielders as it is. Hope he's good in Toronto, that should be an ok fit for him. Very weird off-season, dealing Piscotty, Grichuk, and Diaz who at one point were the future at their positions. Well been weird year period. Last years opening day line up. How many of those guys are on the team now and how many of them where starters by the All star break. Weird as hell. If you would have told me in 2014 that Piscotty, Grichuk, Adams, and Craig would be dealt, Oscar Taveras would die, and roster fodder Tommy Pham would be a top of the line-up starter, I would have immediately called bullshit. A lot more turnover than the franchise is used to, which I guess is them acknowledging that the team last year was built very poorly.
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Perd
Patti Mayonnaise
Leslie needs to butt out for fear of receiving The Bunghole Buster
Posts: 31,966
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Post by Perd on Jan 19, 2018 21:58:48 GMT -5
Not sad to see Grichuk go to the AL. That guy kills the Cubs.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jan 20, 2018 10:50:42 GMT -5
Well been weird year period. Last years opening day line up. How many of those guys are on the team now and how many of them where starters by the All star break. Weird as hell. If you would have told me in 2014 that Piscotty, Grichuk, Adams, and Craig would be dealt, Oscar Taveras would die, and roster fodder Tommy Pham would be a top of the line-up starter, I would have immediately called bullshit. A lot more turnover than the franchise is used to, which I guess is them acknowledging that the team last year was built very poorly. Going into the season last year I knew it was. They didn't have a legit middle order guy. They didn't do anything to fix the defense from the season before. Diaz was only there because how he was hitting in 2016 and once that went away, he wasn't that good at SS, which he more second basemen anyway. They expected Matt Carpenter to be that guy based on his Lead off success as a hitter. Piscotty issues was more off field and that why he was dealt. Craig was slumping big time. Taveras set the team back more than anybody because he was supposed to be the new face or big bat for the team in house guy. The team didn't do anything to replace that hole really until now with Ozuna. Dejong came out nowhere and had the much better range to be a SS. Gryoko came in and showed he can be a good 3rd basemen defensively and his over all batting stats says signing Moose would make no sense because outside of last season, stats are close to the same. In this free agent class the only two players now, (They missed the boat on closers) that they could sign to upgrade what that have is one of the top starters, and well Hosmer at first base (Better defense that Carpenter and a good bat to put with Ozuna on the power side) but unless you can make that trade somewhere. They may as well just wait until next off season when Donaldson and Manny it the market and go out of there box to sign them which I believe is a long shot unless we make the playoffs some way this year which is do able.
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