Magician under the moonlight
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Always Beaten To The Punchline. Always.
A magician and a thief. That's Badass
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Post by Magician under the moonlight on Dec 4, 2016 14:13:49 GMT -5
I know I will be hated for this but I just wanted to get it out.
So I finally decided to watch The Force awakens and I really did not like it. The effects were good and the action ok, but there were so many things that disappointed me. Most of it are already discussed to death, like it’s a rehash of episode 4, Han Solo getting killed and Mark Hamill only appearing in the end, so I will concentrate on what really grinded my gear.
1) The Starkiller Base in general. Ok! After the failure of the Deathstar, they somehow managed to create a base 10 times bigger and need to absorb energy from the stars to destroy another galaxy? How the hell did they managed that. And not only this, they managed to give it a very similar weakness to the death star, showing that they never learned.
2) Poe Daemon crashes on Jakku with Finn and believed to die only to reappear later with the rebels to save the day. First, what happened with his mission, second how did he get back To the rebel base and third, just like Finn, he has no Injuries, What?
3) These next ones are my main gripe: Rey in genera and I have so much to say about her. This is what ruined it for me. She is exactly a female Luke Skywalker but in a too perfect way. First of all, she knows more about the millennium falcon than Han Solo. Really? Han Solo put his heart and soul into it so only him should know more about it. Not only that, despite never flown a ship before she somehow managed to outrun Tie Fighters with the Millennium Falcon? I am not buying this at all. At least Luke was a well know pilot so if something like this happened to him, it would have made sense. But Rey, I don’t buy this at all.
My next problem is that how she managed to use the force so easily. To me, this was a very big joke. Remember in a New Nope, Obi-Wan was training Luke about becoming a Jedi: how to use the force and how to use a light saber. Even when Luke used the force to destroy the Death Star, Obi wan was guiding him in spirit since he knew he did not master it fully. Rey, however, managed to use mind control and use the light saber with no training what so ever? Come on. I will get back to the light saber part in a moment.
4) Rylo Ren went from being strong to a wuss. I don’t know if there is an opposite of character development, but Kylo Ren fits this perfectly. He managed to use the force to stop a powerful laser shot mid air. That’s was neat and a great way to introduced him. Then he throws teenage tantrums when thing don’t go his way. He then gets shot by Chewbacca easily. (Ok he was not paying attention) and this brings my biggest gripe.
5) The Kylo Ren and Rey saber fight. Now remember when I mentioned that I will get back to the Rey and Light saber part. Well as you guess, this is where it falls. So Kylo Ren, who was trained by Luke Skywalker and the Evil Emperor and had so many years of experience get defeated by a rookie who never had any training? At least in episode 4 Luke and Vader never clashed for a saber fight and even when they did in Episode 5, Vader won the fight since Luke’s training was incomplete and he was not ready for it. But Rey beats Kylo Ren in her first fight? Does she really need training in the force if she managed to defeat an experienced Jedi now? I feel that there was no character development in her at all. She did everything in this episode.
Honestly, what is up with movies and replacing male leads with woman lately? Is the Feminist movement really this strong? They made the women look like they have no flaws at all and men look like they are inferior. I felt the same way when I saw the Ghostbusters movie where the villain and the male secretary were just idiots. In Star Wars, They made Rey the strong, smart independent woman who excels faster than any male in the field. She learned how to be a Jedi with no training, she knows more than freakin Han Solo about the Millennium Falcon and knows how to pilot it on her first try, hell when Finn tries to save her many times, she kept screaming “Let go of my hand”. I don’t want to say this is a feminist ploy, but it does feel like it. Then again, knowing Disney, they have an obsession with strong female characters.
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pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Dec 4, 2016 14:39:21 GMT -5
Yeah, pretty much the shared gripes a lot of us have sans the female argument.
As far as Rey in terms of supposed inexperience, however, I'm not mad about it until Lucas and company do something to shatter the explanation and backstory I have in my head that I've laid out in the main Force Awakens thread. For my own reassurance, I've explained it away and if it plays out close to what I believe, then I'm going to be ok with the supposed inexperience that's not inexperience at all.
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Post by xCompackx on Dec 4, 2016 14:54:03 GMT -5
Regarding the Starkiller Base, well, we were never shown exactly how either of the Death Stars were built either so I guess we're supposed to assume that Snoke has massive financial backing of some sort. As far as the weakness goes, I highly doubt they expected the series of events it took to disable the shield to even allow the Resistance to attack it. Plus, judging from Snoke's (relatively) timid reaction, maybe he just didn't care whether it was destroyed. Maybe Kylo Ren's training is more important.
Poe finding his way back to the Resistance could be him just finding a transport back. I mean, he knows where it is.
The Rey complaints are things that I really feel like are intentionally done. She's shown to clearly be pretty powerful and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a big part of Episode VIII.
Kylo Ren and the last lightsaber fight actually made a lot of sense to me. Throughout the whole movie, he's been shown to be a really emotional guy. He wants to be as strong as Darth Vader but still has ties to his father and doesn't want it to turn him the way Vader did at the end of ROTJ. And the lightsaber fight at the end, I mean... Kylo just killed his dad. It's probably enough to throw him off-balance.
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Bo Rida
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Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
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Post by Bo Rida on Dec 4, 2016 14:54:12 GMT -5
It's all part of the force awakening. Back in the old days Jedis trained for years from a young age. Luke was much older but still learned the basics in a few days and the rest in couple of weeks. Now it's even quicker. If there are more Star Wars movies after E9 it'll be instant. I think because in the old days the force had to support loads of jedis, now it can concentrate on a handful of them.
Rey had her problems but I wouldn't say the hand holding thing was just for feminist reasons, it also helped get across the idea she was a loner that wasn't used to working well with others.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Dec 4, 2016 14:57:16 GMT -5
It's all part of the force awakening. You're not getting away with that!
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Sephiroth
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Post by Sephiroth on Dec 4, 2016 14:58:18 GMT -5
One of my first thoughts when I saw it was "The Death Star didn't work twice, what was makingbit bigger supposed to accomplish?"
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Dec 4, 2016 14:58:46 GMT -5
I can't argue with many of your points, but I will say they had 30 years to build this Starkiller Base. Haha. My problem with it was it was the same plot point all over again. It's like doing a Jaws sequel with a much bigger shark. Only you don't need a knockoff of the Death Star to do a new Star Wars movie, but they went there anyway. I also didn't care for how anticlimactic the destruction of the Base was. There was no excitement leading up to it being destroyed at all. No suspense. Nothing. It was flat.
Poe could've wandered off and found a transport somehow. Maybe he was banged up. Idk. Poe's escape really didn't bother me.
Rey picking up on the mind control so quickly bothered me too. Everything did seem to come to easy for her. She is a scavenger and she knows what she's dealing in, so I could buy her having the knowledge about ships, especially an older one like the Falcon.
Kylo's training wasn't complete. Snoke even says he's going to complete his training near the end of the movie, so I expect him to come back stronger. He was way too emotional and we know that will make for an unbalanced fighter, which was the only way I could suspend my disbelief that Rey got the better of him.
It does feel like they're trying to push a female version of Luke and to give her her own trilogy to get more mileage out of the franchise by reaching some new and different demographics. Welcome to Hollywood. It's all about the money. They'll get us again when they release the original versions of IV, V and VI on Blu Ray. Haha.
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agent817
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Post by agent817 on Dec 4, 2016 15:04:15 GMT -5
I will say this, but despite a lot of people praising it, I mostly enjoyed the movie okay but I wouldn't call it great. Then again, I enjoyed Ghostbusters a lot and I know that a lot of people will want to lynch me for hearing that.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 4, 2016 15:10:26 GMT -5
I will say this, but despite a lot of people praising it, I mostly enjoyed the movie okay but I wouldn't call it great. Then again, I enjoyed Ghostbusters a lot and I know that a lot of people will want to lynch me for hearing that. I won't. I thought it was kind of hit or miss overall, some jokes did drag. But there were a number of moments me and the audience was laughing pretty hard. Wasn't perfect but I'm glad I saw it. I don't understand where you're seeing a "feminist agenda" with Rey's character. The male characters around her are generally competent, and she did get captured at one point. Besides,she's the main hero of the new trilogy, you'd hope she would be at least as capable as Luke was.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Dec 4, 2016 15:12:33 GMT -5
Regarding the Starkiller Base, well, we were never shown exactly how either of the Death Stars were built either so I guess we're supposed to assume that Snoke has massive financial backing of some sort. As far as the weakness goes, I highly doubt they expected the series of events it took to disable the shield to even allow the Resistance to attack it. Plus, judging from Snoke's (relatively) timid reaction, maybe he just didn't care whether it was destroyed. Maybe Kylo Ren's training is more important. Now this could be an interesting idea, that actually had been hinted at from the first movie (Episode IV). Vader says that the technological terror of the Death Star is insignificant compared to the Force. What if in the grand scheme of things, if on the battlefield of the light side versus the dark side of the Force, that is true? What if Snoke really doesn't care about the loss of Starkiller because it's ultimately irrelevant? Just something to keep the First Order occupied while Snoke and Ren use their resources?
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Fade on Dec 4, 2016 15:16:41 GMT -5
I know I will be hated for this but I just wanted to get it out. So I finally decided to watch The Force awakens and I really did not like it. The effects were good and the action ok, but there were so many things that disappointed me. Most of it are already discussed to death, like it’s a rehash of episode 4, Han Solo getting killed and Mark Hamill only appearing in the end, so I will concentrate on what really grinded my gear. 1) The Starkiller Base in general. Ok! After the failure of the Deathstar, they somehow managed to create a base 10 times bigger and need to absorb energy from the stars to destroy another galaxy? How the hell did they managed that. And not only this, they managed to give it a very similar weakness to the death star, showing that they never learned. 2) Poe Daemon crashes on Jakku with Finn and believed to die only to reappear later with the rebels to save the day. First, what happened with his mission, second how did he get back To the rebel base and third, just like Finn, he has no Injuries, What? 3) These next ones are my main gripe: Rey in genera and I have so much to say about her. This is what ruined it for me. She is exactly a female Luke Skywalker but in a too perfect way. First of all, she knows more about the millennium falcon than Han Solo. Really? Han Solo put his heart and soul into it so only him should know more about it. Not only that, despite never flown a ship before she somehow managed to outrun Tie Fighters with the Millennium Falcon? I am not buying this at all. At least Luke was a well know pilot so if something like this happened to him, it would have made sense. But Rey, I don’t buy this at all. My next problem is that how she managed to use the force so easily. To me, this was a very big joke. Remember in a New Nope, Obi-Wan was training Luke about becoming a Jedi: how to use the force and how to use a light saber. Even when Luke used the force to destroy the Death Star, Obi wan was guiding him in spirit since he knew he did not master it fully. Rey, however, managed to use mind control and use the light saber with no training what so ever? Come on. I will get back to the light saber part in a moment. 4) Rylo Ren went from being strong to a wuss. I don’t know if there is an opposite of character development, but Kylo Ren fits this perfectly. He managed to use the force to stop a powerful laser shot mid air. That’s was neat and a great way to introduced him. Then he throws teenage tantrums when thing don’t go his way. He then gets shot by Chewbacca easily. (Ok he was not paying attention) and this brings my biggest gripe. 5) The Kylo Ren and Rey saber fight. Now remember when I mentioned that I will get back to the Rey and Light saber part. Well as you guess, this is where it falls. So Kylo Ren, who was trained by Luke Skywalker and the Evil Emperor and had so many years of experience get defeated by a rookie who never had any training? At least in episode 4 Luke and Vader never clashed for a saber fight and even when they did in Episode 5, Vader won the fight since Luke’s training was incomplete and he was not ready for it. But Rey beats Kylo Ren in her first fight? Does she really need training in the force if she managed to defeat an experienced Jedi now? I feel that there was no character development in her at all. She did everything in this episode. Honestly, what is up with movies and replacing male leads with woman lately? Is the Feminist movement really this strong? They made the women look like they have no flaws at all and men look like they are inferior. I felt the same way when I saw the Ghostbusters movie where the villain and the male secretary were just idiots. In Star Wars, They made Rey the strong, smart independent woman who excels faster than any male in the field. She learned how to be a Jedi with no training, she knows more than freakin Han Solo about the Millennium Falcon and knows how to pilot it on her first try, hell when Finn tries to save her many times, she kept screaming “Let go of my hand”. I don’t want to say this is a feminist ploy, but it does feel like it. Then again, knowing Disney, they have an obsession with strong female characters. Huge SW mark, here. I'll address these points and TFA: 1.) Yeah. They could has been more creative here. And yeah..it's like the same flaw. As for the science, Abrams admitted they took liberties. Which I'm ok with, science was always more of a Star Trek thing. 2.) I believe they explained how he got back in some book or some commentary but I'm not sure. For all we know he could have been injured, made his way back, gotten into a Bacta tank and been all better. Poe was supposed to die here, so I'm just happy he survived. 3.) They needed a strong protagonist off the bat. Maybe her backstory will add credibility to her prowess? Also keep in mind Anakin was technically stronger in the force than Yoda during Episode 1. As for the Han thing, Hans always kinda sucked with the Falcon despite his attachment to it. Look at ESB. I feel like Chewie keeps the ship afloat more than anyone. 4.) This is what I love about Kylo Ren and what surprised me most didn't get. Yes, Kylo is strong in the force. He also is an Emo Little Bitch. He subscribes to the dark side. He's supposed to be impulsive, emotional, fearful, insecure, whiny, angry, selfish, etc etc. You're not supposed to like him or think he's badass. The only difference between Anakin and Kylo is Hayden couldn't act, and Driver can. 5.) Couple things here: First, I feel his confidence is shot even before the duel. Rey humiliates him by pointing out his insecurity and escaping. Snoke is pissed. Then, he kills Han. Which affects him negatively the second he does it. The script even reads he regrets it almost immediately and his power is actually lessened by it. Then he gets shot by the Bowcaster which is built up the whole movie. So take all that and add in that Rey is f***ing PISSED over Han dying and Finn possibly killed and yeah I buy she beats him. Feminist Movement: Yeah. Basically. This is a cultural thing and some "progressive" movement which is stupid, irrational, annoying and counter productive to creativity. Hell its happening in Rogue One. The writers communicated to each other that the story was about "a group of diverse minorities led by an Independent Woman" against a "white supremacist evil (human) empire". Barf. It's sickening and its in play right now and hopefully it all goes away soon cause it worked so well for Ghostbusters didn't it? That said I like Rey's character (Daisy was sorta the weak link Acting-wise) and the rest of the cast is really strong. As for TFA, I loved it when it came out. It's hard not to recognize the more you watch it how much of a rehash it is. And it's kinda shallow. But it's still directed very well as far as pacing goes, acting shops, story's okay to "set the scene" and it's not the prequels. I repeat, it's not the prequels. I think that's why initially it got so much love. We were fed three steamy pieces of shit for years so then we get a Star Wars movie that is technically sound and harkens back to the films we loved and it's a huge refreshing change of pace. Regardless...I feel Episode 8 is going to blow us all away. Rians a genius director and the script is supposedly the shit.
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BorneAgain
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Post by BorneAgain on Dec 4, 2016 15:18:50 GMT -5
I think Rey was a little underwritten, especially compared to the deeper character stuff Finn got, but her skill with the Force didn't bother me too much, especially given that Ren was presented as a guy very much as someone cosplaying as a Dark Lord rather than embodying the role.
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agent817
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Post by agent817 on Dec 4, 2016 15:20:03 GMT -5
I will say this, but despite a lot of people praising it, I mostly enjoyed the movie okay but I wouldn't call it great. Then again, I enjoyed Ghostbusters a lot and I know that a lot of people will want to lynch me for hearing that. I won't. I thought it was kind of hit or miss overall, some jokes did drag. But there were a number of moments me and the audience was laughing pretty hard. Wasn't perfect but I'm glad I saw it. I don't understand where you're seeing a "feminist agenda" with Rey's character. The male characters around her are generally competent, and she did get captured at one point. Besides,she's the main hero of the new trilogy, you'd hope she would be at least as capable as Luke was. And I respect your opinion. It's just that a lot of people on the internet don't. Anyway, I might need to re-watch this film to see how Rey is perfectly skilled over other people. It's been almost a year as I watched it in theaters.
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Post by hossfan on Dec 4, 2016 15:23:51 GMT -5
I thought the movie was horrible, with the only part that worked was Kylo Ren fighting Finn and Rey in the woods. That scene felt epic. The rest of it was as silly and contrived as the prequels.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Fade on Dec 4, 2016 15:24:31 GMT -5
Regarding the Starkiller Base, well, we were never shown exactly how either of the Death Stars were built either so I guess we're supposed to assume that Snoke has massive financial backing of some sort. As far as the weakness goes, I highly doubt they expected the series of events it took to disable the shield to even allow the Resistance to attack it. Plus, judging from Snoke's (relatively) timid reaction, maybe he just didn't care whether it was destroyed. Maybe Kylo Ren's training is more important. Now this could be an interesting idea, that actually had been hinted at from the first movie (Episode IV). Vader says that the technological terror of the Death Star is insignificant compared to the Force. What if in the grand scheme of things, if on the battlefield of the light side versus the dark side of the Force, that is true? What if Snoke really doesn't care about the loss of Starkiller because it's ultimately irrelevant? Just something to keep the First Order occupied while Snoke and Ren use their resources? If ya think about it, it really doesn't matter. They f***ing killed off the New Republic. It's martial law throughout the Galaxy. First Orders the big boss again and the Resistance is weakened. It's almost the same status quo as before a New Hope. Which is why Snoke wants to kill off Luke so much. That's the biggest threat, the return of the Jedi.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 4, 2016 15:24:46 GMT -5
One of my first thoughts when I saw it was "The Death Star didn't work twice, what was makingbit bigger supposed to accomplish?" In the Expanded universe "let's do the Death Star again" is pretty much the Empire's only plan.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 4, 2016 15:29:16 GMT -5
Feminist Movement: Yeah. Basically. This is a culture all thing and some "progressive" movement which is stupid, irrational, annoying and counter productive to creativity. Hell its happening in Rogue One. The writers communicated to each other that the story was about "a group of diverse minorities led by an Independent Woman" against a "white supremacist evil (human) empire". Barf. It's sickening and its in play right now and hopefully it all goes away soon cause it worked so well for Ghostbusters didn't it? That said I like Rey's character (Daisy was sorta the weak link Acting-wise) and the rest of the cast is really strong.. This way of thinking doesn't make any sense to me at all. For one thing, there's a lot of value and positive impact when different kinds of people are represented in a variety of roles in fiction. Secondly, homogenity in media is just boring. Even if you don't consider yourself a fierce ally for social justice, why would anyone really want the vast majority of protagonists to be white males anyway? And I say that as a black dude who favorite superhero is Captain America, and he's as white as you get. Thirdly, it works from a financial standpoint. Were I the head of a major studio, why would I push for casting decisions that would result in less money?
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Magician under the moonlight
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Always Beaten To The Punchline. Always.
A magician and a thief. That's Badass
Posts: 15,727
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Post by Magician under the moonlight on Dec 4, 2016 15:33:56 GMT -5
It's all part of the force awakening. Back in the old days Jedis trained for years from a young age. Luke was much older but still learned the basics in a few days and the rest in couple of weeks. Now it's even quicker. If there are more Star Wars movies after E9 it'll be instant. I think because in the old days the force had to support loads of jedis, now it can concentrate on a handful of them. Rey had her problems but I wouldn't say the hand holding thing was just for feminist reasons, it also helped get across the idea she was a loner that wasn't used to working well with others. Like I said though, Luke at least had some training and guidance from >Obi wan, Rey did not have any training. And honestly, Rey was maybe as old as Luke when she first heard of force so I don't see how see can use it just like that.
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Post by sternrogers01 on Dec 4, 2016 15:41:35 GMT -5
It's Star Wars by commitie and a blatant toy ad...but it does the job of reintroducing the themes and motives to a fresh audience and that's all I can really ask for.
The women leads can all go cook me something though.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Dec 4, 2016 15:41:47 GMT -5
Now this could be an interesting idea, that actually had been hinted at from the first movie (Episode IV). Vader says that the technological terror of the Death Star is insignificant compared to the Force. What if in the grand scheme of things, if on the battlefield of the light side versus the dark side of the Force, that is true? What if Snoke really doesn't care about the loss of Starkiller because it's ultimately irrelevant? Just something to keep the First Order occupied while Snoke and Ren use their resources? If ya think about it, it really doesn't matter. They f***ing killed off the New Republic. It's martial law throughout the Galaxy. First Orders the big boss again and the Resistance is weakened. It's almost the same status quo as before a New Hope. Which is why Snoke wants to kill off Luke so much. That's the biggest threat, the return of the Jedi. That's oversimplifying things just a bit. One planet, albeit the capitol, in the New Republic was lost. The First Order isn't anywhere close to the strength of the Empire pre New Hope. And if anything, the actions of the First Order should galvanize everyone to join the Resistance and crush them. They've shown themselves to be a clear threat, and they just lost their most powerful weapon.
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