BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by BRV on Feb 10, 2017 17:48:29 GMT -5
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Feb 10, 2017 20:16:34 GMT -5
Raiders signed coach Jack Del Rio to a four-year extension.
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Spider2024
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Member is Online
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Post by Spider2024 on Feb 10, 2017 20:22:59 GMT -5
'Bothered' like what? Like his feelings were hurt on a personal level? If so, let's play the smallest violin for him.
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bob
Salacious Crumb
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Post by bob on Feb 11, 2017 11:59:41 GMT -5
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Feb 11, 2017 14:13:34 GMT -5
That is completely wrong. The Niners biggest need isn't QB, it's getting rid of Jed York. Also, Kaepernick played well last season.
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Push R Truth
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Post by Push R Truth on Feb 11, 2017 14:15:28 GMT -5
The AFC's biggest need is Brady's arm falling off
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Post by häšhtå.gdālėÿ on Feb 11, 2017 15:19:27 GMT -5
That is completely wrong. The Niners biggest need isn't QB, it's getting rid of Jed York. Also, Kaepernick played well last season. I'm all for keeping Kap as a stop-gap until the real choice of Shanahan comes along... Though I think Kap wants out of the hell that is SF, and with his opt-out in March (which I assume he'll be using) that leaves the 9ers with exactly 0 QB's on the roster. That makes QB a pretty massive need And if only getting rid of Jed York was easy. But he said it best at the Chip Kelly firing presser, "You can't fire the owner." He's here to stay, at least as long as mom and dad let him keep his shiny toy. (And it's not like Mom and Dad were top of the line owners either)
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Sicho100
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Easily Confused.
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Post by Sicho100 on Feb 11, 2017 16:16:06 GMT -5
That is completely wrong. The Niners biggest need isn't QB, it's getting rid of Jed York. Also, Kaepernick played well last season. Yeah, I'm calling bullshit on those choices. It says the Bears' top need is QB, when everyone knows that their real top need is "Everything."
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Feb 11, 2017 20:38:55 GMT -5
That is completely wrong. The Niners biggest need isn't QB, it's getting rid of Jed York. Also, Kaepernick played well last season. Yeah, I'm calling bullshit on those choices. It says the Bears' top need is QB, when everyone knows that their real top need is "Everything." Actually I would argue that is accurate. They have a tremendous amount of talent on both sides of the ball, both new and seasoned. It just happened this season that they were injured or got injured.
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Post by Hugh Mungus on Feb 12, 2017 2:39:07 GMT -5
The AFC's biggest need is Brady's arm falling off Peyton Manning retiring was step 1, right?
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
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Post by BRV on Feb 12, 2017 12:12:01 GMT -5
The NFL Network over the last two days have been airing every Patriots Super Bowl game in their entirety from the Brady/Belichick era. On Saturday, it was all seven Super Bowl appearances, while today it is all five Super Bowl wins.
Yes, this is basically pornography for me.
But anyway, two quick points that I feel are worth mentioning:
1) Super Bowl XXXVIII is airing at the moment and despite the incredible finish of Super Bowl XLIX and the monumental comeback of Super Bowl LI, I still contend that XXXVIII was the greatest football game I've ever seen. It was physical, hard-hitting, nasty, and it featured two quarters of flawless defense and two quarters of Arena League-style scoring. It sated every football fan's appetite and it concluded with a wild, back-and-forth fourth quarter in which the lead changed four times in the final seven minutes, ultimately ending with a game-winning field goal from Adam Vinatieri in the waning moments.
2) I tried watching the final quarter of Super Bowl XLII - I've never rewatched any portion of the game since it aired in February 2008 - and even though the Patriots have won two Super Bowls since then, it still hurts to think of what could have been with that game. It doesn't hurt as much as it did before Malcolm Butler's interception or James White's walk-off touchdown, but it still stings knowing that they were so close to the perfect season on at least four separate occasions on the Giants' final drive - a one-yard run by Brandon Jacobs on fourth down, the near interception by Asante Samuel, the almost sack and circus catch, and a ball slipping through Brandon Meriweather's arms.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Feb 12, 2017 14:44:39 GMT -5
Ben Volin of the Boston Globe believes the Patriots can expect a second-round pick in return for Jimmy Garoppolo.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Feb 12, 2017 16:50:13 GMT -5
Former Dolphins DE Quentin Moses has passed away in house fire. He was 33 years old.
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Posts: 17,015
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Post by BRV on Feb 12, 2017 17:10:34 GMT -5
Ben Volin of the Boston Globe believes the Patriots can expect a second-round pick in return for Jimmy Garoppolo. If that's all they're being offered, I'd hold on to Garoppolo. I've got to imagine there's a team out there that's willing to part with a first-round pick to have him under center. I'd be very uneasy if the Patriots dealt away a 25-year-old potential franchise quarterback and all they got was a second-round pick in return, especially considering Tom Brady will be 40 years old when the 2017 season starts. Brady's the greatest quarterback to ever play the game and he is still the best quarterback in the league right now, but he's turning 40. At some point, he's going to stop being incredible and there has to be a contingency plan in place and I don't know how comfortable I'd be if that contingency plan is Jacoby Brissett and a second-round pick.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Feb 12, 2017 19:55:51 GMT -5
Ben Volin of the Boston Globe believes the Patriots can expect a second-round pick in return for Jimmy Garoppolo. If that's all they're being offered, I'd hold on to Garoppolo. I've got to imagine there's a team out there that's willing to part with a first-round pick to have him under center. I'd be very uneasy if the Patriots dealt away a 25-year-old potential franchise quarterback and all they got was a second-round pick in return, especially considering Tom Brady will be 40 years old when the 2017 season starts. Brady's the greatest quarterback to ever play the game and he is still the best quarterback in the league right now, but he's turning 40. At some point, he's going to stop being incredible and there has to be a contingency plan in place and I don't know how comfortable I'd be if that contingency plan is Jacoby Brissett and a second-round pick. I fundamentally disagree entirely with that assessment. To me there are two distinct trains of thought regarding Garoppolo and neither matches with trading a first round pick for him. 1) He isn't really worth a 1st rd pick for the team that acquires him. or 2) He is the quarterback of the future, in which case the team might be more willing to part with Brady than Garoppolo. I know, #2 is an outrageous statement, but I'll address that later at the end of this post. The odds are very good that the answer is #1. Say what you want about Brady, Belichick, or the Patriots, but there is a reason I don't think Brady is the GOAT (don't get me wrong, he belongs in the HoF, but he isn't the best). That reason is that Belichick runs a system that is very, very, very QB friendly. Bledsoe did well in it towards the end of his tenure, Brady gets mentioned in discussions regarding who is the GOAT due to his mastery of the system, and a slew of Brady backups drew far more interest than their post-Patriots performances proved were warranted. What's more, Belichick did a great job getting more for those backups than they were worth. What does that mean? Well, odds are that if Belichick says that he expects a 2nd rd pick for a backup QB, then you best not offer more than a 4th at best. If you lose out on the player and someone else outbids you for him, odds are he overpaid significantly. You might ask, "What about his performances?" Well, what about them? He does not have enough of a history for any GM who is worth a damn to invest heavily into. One or two good games do not provide enough of an incentive to go for him. Matt Flynn had one of the best games any QB has ever had filling in for Aaron Rodgers and it caused Seattle to massively overpay him. Brock Osweiler had a more significant set of game tapes to draw from (including a pretty good win over the Patriots) and it was still stupid for the Texans to give him that deal. At least the Chiefs had a whole season's worth of regular season performances to be sold on Matt Cassel and even then only gave up a 2nd for him (though to be fair it was practically a 1st at the #34 spot). Long story short, there is nothing at this point to suggest that he is worth so much as a 2nd rd pick, to be honest. Let's consider the second option, that being he actually can be the true successor to Brady. Well, this is not unheard of. The thing is, if he is a true successor then history suggests that they need to act like it and act like it now. Teams can handle trading away a HoF level QB if they have a true franchise QB waiting in the wings. The Niners did it. The Packers did it. The Colts sort of did it (Manning was simply cut rather than traded). At this point, the Patriots need to decide whether Garoppolo is the heir apparent or just another benchwarmer behind Brady. If he is the heir apparent, it is in their best interest to see what they can get for Brady (for instance, the Texans would give up a Hershel Walker-style trade package for Brady and a chance at a couple of real playoff runs) and let Garapollo take the reins. They won't do him any more favors having him stew behind Brady in the rotation and only getting 2nd team reps. They also won't get as much for Brady a year from now. The time, if he is the next QB for the team, is now. The thing is, Belichick knows this. He is as shrewd a judge of talent as there is. The fact that they still talk about what they can get for Garapollo rather than floating the notion that they might trade Brady should tell you exactly what they think of him. They don't see him as anything more than a stopgap that makes decent trade bait. They are going to ride the Brady train until his wheels fall off. Truth be told, that is a fine enough option and I don't blame them. At the same time, if I am a GM I am also not about to give up a high draft pick for someone that Belichick keeps dangling out there like a fishing lure. He won't be worth it.
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Posts: 17,015
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Post by BRV on Feb 12, 2017 20:31:20 GMT -5
The odds are very good that the answer is #1. Say what you want about Brady, Belichick, or the Patriots, but there is a reason I don't think Brady is the GOAT (don't get me wrong, he belongs in the HoF, but he isn't the best). That reason is that Belichick runs a system that is very, very, very QB friendly. Bledsoe did well in it towards the end of his tenure, Brady gets mentioned in discussions regarding who is the GOAT due to his mastery of the system, and a slew of Brady backups drew far more interest than their post-Patriots performances proved were warranted. What's more, Belichick did a great job getting more for those backups than they were worth. What does that mean? Well, odds are that if Belichick says that he expects a 2nd rd pick for a backup QB, then you best not offer more than a 4th at best. If you lose out on the player and someone else outbids you for him, odds are he overpaid significantly. You might ask, "What about his performances?" Well, what about them? He does not have enough of a history for any GM who is worth a damn to invest heavily into. One or two good games do not provide enough of an incentive to go for him. Matt Flynn had one of the best games any QB has ever had filling in for Aaron Rodgers and it caused Seattle to massively overpay him. Brock Osweiler had a more significant set of game tapes to draw from (including a pretty good win over the Patriots) and it was still stupid for the Texans to give him that deal. At least the Chiefs had a whole season's worth of regular season performances to be sold on Matt Cassel and even then only gave up a 2nd for him (though to be fair it was practically a 1st at the #34 spot). Long story short, there is nothing at this point to suggest that he is worth so much as a 2nd rd pick, to be honest. I don't expect the Patriots to pull the kind of offer that the Rams dealt away to land the no. 1 overall pick or what the Eagles gave up to acquire the second overall pick but those trades last year should be indicators that there are owners and general managers who are desperate for quarterbacks and are willing to overpay if they believe the talent is there. And in the cup of coffee that he had earlier this season, I believe Garoppolo proved that he has it. On the road in prime time against a team everyone expected to be an NFC Championship contender (Arizona) and at home against a team that actually did end up in the playoffs (Miami), Garoppolo was 42-for-60 for 498 yards, four touchdowns, and a 117.2 rating. On third down specifically, he was 14-17 for 197 yards, two touchdowns, and a 154.2 rating. That's the kind of poise you can't teach. And your references to Matt Flynn and Brock Osweiler bolster my argument and prove that Garoppolo is worth more than just a second-round pick. It proves that there were general managers out there who saw potential in those quarterbacks and understood that to win in today's NFL, above all else, you need a talented quarterback. The lone exception is the 2015 Broncos, but they had a historically-good defense. All it takes is one desperate general manager or one foolhardy owner to make a desperate, 11th-hour phone call to the Patriots to facilitate a deal. This also gets to the point that the Patriots don't need to trade Garoppolo. He's under contract until the end of the 2017 season. They could just give him another year on the sideline holding the clipboard if no offers come along this off-season. Maybe next season there will be a team that's around .500 and thinks they're a quarterback away from being a playoff contender. Maybe the Patriots franchise Garoppolo next off-season and decide on their future at that point. But if someone comes along with a call and says, "Look, we're your only suitor, it's a fourth-rounder or nothing," I'd expect the Patriots to hang up the phone. Bill Belichick has proven in the past that he's as ruthless and bloodless as they come when it comes to trading away aging superstar talent but after the entire deflated football scandal, the notion that the Patriots would trade Tom Brady away kind of went out the window. He'll be a Patriot for life, unless he has some sort of dramatic, Brett Favre in 2010 style meltdown and after the way he's performed over the last three seasons, I have some serious reservations about that happening in the immediate future. Yes, obviously the Patriots could get a king's ransom for Tom Brady but they'd also be dealing away their best player and their best chance at another Super Bowl ring. Jimmy Garoppolo couldn't lead a team back from a 28-3 deficit in the Super Bowl. Jacoby Brissett couldn't score 16 points in the final two drives of the Super Bowl. Trading Tom Brady might have seemed feasible back in 2013 when his numbers had dipped over four consecutive seasons, but he's on a whole different level than any other quarterback right now. Obviously age is a factor, as he's 15 years older than Garoppolo, but at this point Tom Brady will decide when Tom Brady stops being a Patriot. As long as he's winning Super Bowls and putting up MVP caliber numbers, he'll be starting for the Patriots.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Feb 12, 2017 21:41:37 GMT -5
Again, I have no problem with the Patriots sticking with Brady, but it will mean that Garapollo won't be the answer moving on. They are clearly trying to get someone to overpay for him. Someone might be dumb enough to do so, but truth be told teams that are that desperate are that way for a reason. Garoppolo won't be the cure for what ails those teams.
My point was that if I were a GM I would like to think that know fool's gold when I see it. Garapollo had two good games, leading the eventual champs to a couple of decent outings, but that's it. Again, Matt Flynn is my warning signal. He led the defending champs to a victory over a playoff team, throwing for 480 yds, 6 TDs, and connecting on 70% of his passes. Great, great game that in no way indicated what he was actually capable of.
Again, the point is that the cup of coffee that he played isn't enough to convince me that he is worth a high pick. There are just too many examples of other players doing well with limited exposure. It just isn't unheard of for young backups to come in and do a respectable job in a couple of games, particularly since there isn't decent game footage on them to plan against. Hell, even Tim Tebow's first two starts (600 combined yds, 4 TD, and a respectable QB rating of roughly 95) showed some promise. Tell me he would have been worth a 2nd rd pick. The Jets basically traded a 4th for him and probably felt cheated.
Look, I'm not saying that he might not be decent, but I'm not looking at him through the same rose-tinted glasses you are. There just isn't enough evidence for me to say that he is worth that. Granted, the same could have been said of Aaron Rodgers when the Packers sent Favre packing, but at least the team had the benefit of watching him in practice every week to know that they could take that chance, but no one else would have.
For that matter, the choice to move on from Favre at the time that they did had more to do with Rodgers' development than any decline on Favre's part. They knew that Favre gave them a better chance to win at the time, but forcing Rodgers to sit behind Favre for two more years without getting first team reps would have seriously stunted his long term development, the same way sitting for another season or two behind Brady will hurt Garoppolo. If he isn't the next franchise QB, then that is perfectly fine. If he is, however, you will possibly be sacrificing his development and as a result the next 10-15 years for another season or two with Brady. Again, if Garoppolo isn't the long-term answer then that is perfectly fine and reasonable. If he is, however, why risk your future?
Again, my viewpoint is that Belichick does not view Garoppolo as the future. I have plenty of reasons to suspect that, not the least of which is that they are still discussing being open to trading him. Perhaps some Packers fans can help me out, but didn't the Packers vehemently shoot down any questions about trading Rodgers? I'm certain the Niners quickly killed any trade rumors regarding Young. The Giants never discussed whether or not Manning was their future while Kurt Warner was playing fairly well as their starter. The Cowboys are openly discussing trading Romo but never once discussed trading Prescott while the market was richest for him. You simply do not do that with your future.
The fact that they are doing that with Garoppolo tells me that they don't view him as their future. That rings more true to me than those two good games do.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Feb 12, 2017 22:26:34 GMT -5
I don't see why a team like the Browns would flinch at trading the #12 pick for a potential franchise QB wile still being able to have the first pick in the draft.
I'd hate to damn anyone a life in Cleveland but Garoppolo has as many Super Bowl rings as he does starts and maybe he can make Cleveland into something.
Part of me still feels New England would take less to send him to the NFC
Pats draft another QB round 3/4 this year
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Post by Ganon83 on Feb 13, 2017 1:01:54 GMT -5
Prediction:
Garoppolo gets dealt for a first rounder to Washington as Cousins ends up reuniting with his old OC in San Fran.
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Post by Hugh Mungus on Feb 13, 2017 1:04:31 GMT -5
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