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Post by G✇JI☈A on Dec 19, 2016 2:31:27 GMT -5
I thought the match was great. Great drama, the ladies worked their butts off.
Although it is dumb that the champion Sasha who was 1+ tapped out with two seconds left on the clock. The callers said she had no choice, but come on she was in that hold for nearly 2 minutes at that point..what's an extra 2 seconds?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 2:40:44 GMT -5
I really hate this "What's two more seconds?" talking point.
One second is the difference between having a broken ankle and NOT having a broken ankle. Which was the story they were telling since you had an announcer literally loudly say "Sasha's ankle is about to snap!" and they zoomed the camera in on it being bent backward in the hold Charlotte had her in before that.
I've loved all their matches. I love this rivalry. This is the ending (another point people seem to be missing was them repeatedly saying NO REMATCH CLAUSE and THIS IS THE END OF THE RIVALRY) and it was absolutely wonderful.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 19, 2016 2:54:49 GMT -5
I really hate this "What's two more seconds?" talking point. One second is the difference between having a broken ankle and NOT having a broken ankle. Which was the story they were telling since you had an announcer literally loudly say "Sasha's ankle is about to snap!" and they zoomed the camera in on it being bent backward in the hold Charlotte had her in before that. I've loved all their matches. I love this rivalry. This is the ending (another point people seem to be missing was them repeatedly saying NO REMATCH CLAUSE and THIS IS THE END OF THE RIVALRY) and it was absolutely wonderful. 1. Sasha was in the hold for two minutes and knew she just had to be in the hold two more seconds and tapped, sorry, you can try and spin that any way you like, it was absolutely dumb and it was presented as such.
2. They've said it was the end for two months now and they still find a way to work it back into another match. Sorry if I'm done believing what WWE says when they say this shit is over and done with
If you love the matches and rivalry, feel free, meanwhile I'll call it out for what I think it is, a nepotistic monopolization of a division that ruined two women and a title in the span of a few months, and made two women meaningless champions in a hot potato history forced shamefest that I actually hope is over and never happens again. This was more of a disgrace to womens wrestling in my opinion than anything that could have benefitted it. From near beginning to end. It's a shame because both women are talented, but in the end, WWE killed it, and they may never recover in many fans eyes.
I just hope now it's time for Bayley to get a shot and we never hear about Sasha vs Charlotte ever friggen again. Never thought something would top Cena vs Orton to me in terms of overdone and stale...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 3:00:00 GMT -5
Haven't read the thread outside of the first page so I have no idea if it's been said but the dumbest thing about this booking it made Sasha Banks look like a moron. Like Charlotte f***ed up my knee but if I endure a few seconds I'll retain my title and won't be forced to go into OT where Charlotte will keep f***ing up my f***ed up knee even worse. Like even if it's not that f***ed it's in so much pain I don't stand a f***ing chance.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 3:09:47 GMT -5
So how long before Sasha become number 1 contender again?
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Post by Texas Tornado on Dec 19, 2016 3:14:05 GMT -5
I don't even understand what they're doing with Sasha anymore. I'm indifferent to her and she was my favorite wrestler in the company last year.
This honestly just makes me sad more than anything. The ending of that match was ridiculous and completely crapped on the person that was supposed to be the face in this feud.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 3:20:46 GMT -5
They need a heel as champion to build towards Bayley's WM moment, shame they've made Sasha look incompetent in doing so.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Dec 19, 2016 3:26:48 GMT -5
So Sasha is the "Lex Luger winning the title for a glimmer of hope" to Bayley's "Sting beating the evil heel finally."
Only they stretched the Luger part by 6 months and Sting is squashing Greg Valentine on Saturday Night.
So it's nothing like it I guess. Once I called Alicia Fox "Greg Valentine" I couldn't just hit the back button.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Dec 19, 2016 3:26:50 GMT -5
I sighed loudly when Charlotte won.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 3:27:14 GMT -5
I really hate this "What's two more seconds?" talking point. One second is the difference between having a broken ankle and NOT having a broken ankle. Which was the story they were telling since you had an announcer literally loudly say "Sasha's ankle is about to snap!" and they zoomed the camera in on it being bent backward in the hold Charlotte had her in before that. I've loved all their matches. I love this rivalry. This is the ending (another point people seem to be missing was them repeatedly saying NO REMATCH CLAUSE and THIS IS THE END OF THE RIVALRY) and it was absolutely wonderful. 1. Sasha was in the hold for two minutes and knew she just had to be in the hold two more seconds and tapped, sorry, you can try and spin that any way you like, it was absolutely dumb and it was presented as such.
2. They've said it was the end for two months now and they still find a way to work it back into another match. Sorry if I'm done believing what WWE says when they say this shit is over and done with
If you love the matches and rivalry, feel free, meanwhile I'll call it out for what I think it is, a nepotistic monopolization of a division that ruined two women and a title in the span of a few months, and made two women meaningless champions in a hot potato history forced shamefest that I actually hope is over and never happens again. This was more of a disgrace to womens wrestling in my opinion than anything that could have benefitted it. From near beginning to end. It's a shame because both women are talented, but in the end, WWE killed it, and they may never recover in many fans eyes.
I just hope now it's time for Bayley to get a shot and we never hear about Sasha vs Charlotte ever friggen again. Never thought something would top Cena vs Orton to me in terms of overdone and stale... Responses in order. In convenient numbered form! 1. It wasn't "presented" as such. Did you hear a bunch of announcers going "Ha! What an IDIOT!" Was there anything on the show that told you that it was a dumb decision on her part? If you don't like it, okay. I certainly can't argue with your personal opinion but the nature of submission holds are that you're in so much pain you have no choice but to quit. Sasha's a super tough, never say die babyface. That character NEVER wants to tap. Any time they have to, it's because the pain of the figure eight is so much that she has no choice but to tap. Because it's either tap or get hurt. This is also a thing that happens in the real world. UFC 186 had the main event end with 1 second left because when you're caught, you're caught. 2. Okay. You might be right. But I don't recall them repeatedly making the point this was the ending nearly as hard as they did tonight. They even had Cole give the "This is the end of a fantastic, revolutionary rivalry" speech that makes me roll my eyes every time. The rest is...wow. I mean, okay. If that's how you feel that's how you feel. Okay. But man, between this and the Ziggler thread if there's one word we might need to ban from this board it's "disgrace". This is a disgrace to wrestling to you? A bunch of matches where a title got traded back and froth? You would have lost your mind in 99 when the Title basically flipped between the Rock and Triple H over and over again. If you don't like it, okay. But in my opinion you're overreacting. People also need to get this idea out of their head that because they don't like something, the entire fanbase shares their opinion. "They may never recover in many fans eyes"? Both women are doing fine, the division is doing fine. It doesn't need to 'recover'.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 19, 2016 3:28:52 GMT -5
So Sasha is the "Lex Luger winning the title for a glimmer of hope" to Bayley's "Sting beating the evil heel finally." Only they stretched the Luger part by 6 months and Sting is squashing Greg Valentine on Saturday Night. So it's nothing like it I guess. Once I called Alicia Fox "Greg Valentine" I couldn't just hit the back button. Also, the division is comprised only of Hogan, Luger, Sting, Valentine, Mike Enos, Glacier and... I dunno, Bill Kazmaier.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Dec 19, 2016 3:33:11 GMT -5
So Sasha is the "Lex Luger winning the title for a glimmer of hope" to Bayley's "Sting beating the evil heel finally." Only they stretched the Luger part by 6 months and Sting is squashing Greg Valentine on Saturday Night. So it's nothing like it I guess. Once I called Alicia Fox "Greg Valentine" I couldn't just hit the back button. Also, the division is comprised only of Hogan, Luger, Sting, Valentine, Mike Enos, Glacier and... I dunno, Bill Kazmaier. Dana could be Enos or Kazmaier. I vote Enos in hopes that Emmalina ends up just being a girl Bunkhouse Buck.
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Post by Ryushinku on Dec 19, 2016 3:46:52 GMT -5
Shame such a really good match and all that hard work by the women is getting overshadowed by both the title switching yet again and the booking.
But, it is and understandably so. Real shame.
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oneday
Bubba Ho-Tep
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Post by oneday on Dec 19, 2016 3:56:06 GMT -5
I'm not that big of a fan of Sasha, but this feud has made her look like the biggest loser. She seems like a fluke. All her title reigns are less than 30 days, no successful title defenses, and Charlotte keeps proving she is better than her. The feud ended in Charlotte being proven the better wrestler and Sasha being in over her head. In this feud we've had Charlotte almost 'ending' Sasha's career, beating her in a Hell in a Cell that Main Evented (a first for women), and now a Iron man match. While all Sasha has gotten is seemingly fluke wins on Raw.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 19, 2016 4:06:41 GMT -5
I'm not that big of a fan of Sasha, but this feud has made her look like the biggest loser. She seems like a fluke. All her title reigns are less than 30 days, no successful title defenses, and Charlotte keeps proving she is better than her. The feud ended in Charlotte being proven the better wrestler and Sasha being in over her head. In this feud we've had Charlotte almost 'ending' Sasha's career, beating her in a Hell in a Cell that Main Evented (a first for women), and now a Iron man match. While all Sasha has gotten is seemingly fluke wins on Raw. What makes Charlotte's wins any less fluky than Sasha's, though? The fact they happened on PPVs is merely coincidence. Charlotte has only managed one successful defense and a double countout draw the whole time this feud has been going. Her title reign lengths aren't much better, only boosted by the one she had coming in from WrestleMania. All I know is, the wider fanbase won't consider Banks ANYWHERE NEAR AS DONE as many of us seem to want to believe.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Posts: 235,164
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 19, 2016 4:18:52 GMT -5
1. Sasha was in the hold for two minutes and knew she just had to be in the hold two more seconds and tapped, sorry, you can try and spin that any way you like, it was absolutely dumb and it was presented as such.
2. They've said it was the end for two months now and they still find a way to work it back into another match. Sorry if I'm done believing what WWE says when they say this shit is over and done with
If you love the matches and rivalry, feel free, meanwhile I'll call it out for what I think it is, a nepotistic monopolization of a division that ruined two women and a title in the span of a few months, and made two women meaningless champions in a hot potato history forced shamefest that I actually hope is over and never happens again. This was more of a disgrace to womens wrestling in my opinion than anything that could have benefitted it. From near beginning to end. It's a shame because both women are talented, but in the end, WWE killed it, and they may never recover in many fans eyes.
I just hope now it's time for Bayley to get a shot and we never hear about Sasha vs Charlotte ever friggen again. Never thought something would top Cena vs Orton to me in terms of overdone and stale... Responses in order. In convenient numbered form! 1. It wasn't "presented" as such. Did you hear a bunch of announcers going "Ha! What an IDIOT!" Was there anything on the show that told you that it was a dumb decision on her part? If you don't like it, okay. I certainly can't argue with your personal opinion but the nature of submission holds are that you're in so much pain you have no choice but to quit. Sasha's a super tough, never say die babyface. That character NEVER wants to tap. Any time they have to, it's because the pain of the figure eight is so much that she has no choice but to tap. Because it's either tap or get hurt. This is also a thing that happens in the real world. UFC 186 had the main event end with 1 second left because when you're caught, you're caught. 2. Okay. You might be right. But I don't recall them repeatedly making the point this was the ending nearly as hard as they did tonight. They even had Cole give the "This is the end of a fantastic, revolutionary rivalry" speech that makes me roll my eyes every time. The rest is...wow. I mean, okay. If that's how you feel that's how you feel. Okay. But man, between this and the Ziggler thread if there's one word we might need to ban from this board it's "disgrace". This is a disgrace to wrestling to you? A bunch of matches where a title got traded back and froth? You would have lost your mind in 99 when the Title basically flipped between the Rock and Triple H over and over again. If you don't like it, okay. But in my opinion you're overreacting. People also need to get this idea out of their head that because they don't like something, the entire fanbase shares their opinion. "They may never recover in many fans eyes"? Both women are doing fine, the division is doing fine. It doesn't need to 'recover'. I get the nature of a hold, and I get that it could make sense as to it being if youre caught youre caught. But TWO SECONDS LEFT? No, that was horrible. The announcers aren't going to say it's horrible, they can't ruin their product, that's why people who watch it, can freely say it, and it was HORRIBLE. If Sasha had tapped with 20 seconds left, we wouldn't be having this conversation, her tapping with two seconds is legitimately one of the stupidest things I've seen in wrestling at LEAST this year after being in the hold for Two Minutes Prior.
People really take offense to the Ziggler Disgrace comment, I wasn't really as serious as people think I was with it, and I wasn't the only person who called him that or WORSE that day but sure, single me out. And in terms of back and forthing a title, it's all about one, the prestige of a belt, two, the people in the feud, and three, the story and overall consequence of it. The way I meant disgrace in this case is not the women themselves but the overall presentation and meaning that inevitably came out of this entire feud, from what people really wanted and or expected coming into this year into going out of it, it was pretty disgraceful especially Post-Mania. I'll explain why I think so.
The title isn't even a half a year old. It has had a total of FOUR WOMEN fight for it. Charlotte, Sasha, Natalya, and Bayley (Once in a Triple Threat where she ate the pin). Aside from that, it has been Sasha, and Charlotte, and the only two women who have, aside from Bayley once, from about June to December, has been Sasha and Charlotte. Any animosity thrown out the window for HISTORY MAKING EVENTS. Look they're fighting in a Cage, look they're having a Street Fight, look they're having an Iron Woman Match. IT'S SO HISTORIC!!
Special Shoutout to Nia Jax coming out that one RAW during a Charlotte and Sasha segment, and saying she wasn't there for Charlotte, who is the Champion, and in the Womens Division that is your title and your Number One Main Goal. Yeah she's a heel, I get it, but that made her come off really dumb. Nia is a Monster, and a destroyer, she should have been out there for both Sasha and Charlotte in that RAW segment, she is their BRAUN equivalent who shouldn't give a shit about who they destroy, and she really hasn't been seen since due to again, everyone else in this division back seating it so hard. Did I mention that the division itself is tired of this feuds booking?? Summer Rae, Nia Jax, and Emma have all taken Twitter shots at it, I can't blame them...
The title and women are devalued because what is gained when the women who fight over a new belt back and forth it every month? What is gained for Sasha banks gaining a title three times and going 0-3 in title defenses? What is gained for Charlotte by becoming a meaningless FOUR TIME Champion in the span of short months while also losing the belt three times to do it? Especially for two women who are just beginning their own careers to have this sort of thing happen to them? What is the point of the HISTORY MATCHES if in the end, your title is just thrown around like a piece of meat and the women involved look f***ing stupid in the process? In the end you get the means to have a great rivalry, substance, and advancement of Womens Wrestling, and you beat it into the ground for your own nepotism and putting YOURSELVES over the division and the women themselves, and that is what WWE did for RAW.
You want a place that seems to treat Women and their title right? Smackdown's doing it right now. All the women feel important, all the feuds feel like they have a basis behind them, and they aren't hiding behind match stipulations to DRIVE the feud. Becky and Bliss had a tables match, did they flaunt how it was a Tables Match? No, because they had such a great feud Dynamic as it was they didn't need to. How about the undercard, are they just in meaningless matches? No there's a storyline going on wit Carmella, Nikki, and Natalya all at once even if they don't have the belt, they have something to do, and RAW simply does not have that.
You site that it happened in 99 and you act like I would like any instance where a title is Hot Potatoed that isn't this one, and rarely I do not see it work for any one or feuds for that matter in terms of building people up and establishing a rivalry in a good manner. Now say The Champ Loses, and then the Challenger who wins the belt loses at the next PPV because of their arrogance and getting ahead of themselves, and The Champ becomes the Champ again and they have a means to settle it? I can buy that because that's a basis for a story, getting cocky and dropping the ball. But Sasha and Charlotte did it MORE THAN EIGHT TIMES. After awhile, it's more like these two women just suck rather than either being established as a champion and the title being given prestige. Right now, the Womens Title has about as much standing as a pile of nothing to me, a meaningless paperweight thrown back and forth between two girls who are talented and have plenty of skill, but were basically thrown into WWE's egotistical machine to drive selling points and buys in an endless torrent of matches that basically had everything crash down around it and gave all the other girls nothing to do.
I hope, we are past it, I HOPE we are, and maybe, just maybe, the Womens Title will mean something, because frankly, it has meant jack shit, just like to me, Sasha/Charlotte and their HISTORY Matches have as a whole as well...
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Post by Snaptastic on Dec 19, 2016 4:27:37 GMT -5
Hold up I didn't watch last night, but they hot potato'd it AGAIN?
I give up.
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Post by vincecornette on Dec 19, 2016 4:33:38 GMT -5
WWE have finally did it. They took womens wrestling from being a piss break, made it interesting and competitive, then with terrible booking turned it back into a piss break. Well done.
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oneday
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 642
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Post by oneday on Dec 19, 2016 4:33:55 GMT -5
I'm not that big of a fan of Sasha, but this feud has made her look like the biggest loser. She seems like a fluke. All her title reigns are less than 30 days, no successful title defenses, and Charlotte keeps proving she is better than her. The feud ended in Charlotte being proven the better wrestler and Sasha being in over her head. In this feud we've had Charlotte almost 'ending' Sasha's career, beating her in a Hell in a Cell that Main Evented (a first for women), and now a Iron man match. While all Sasha has gotten is seemingly fluke wins on Raw. What makes Charlotte's wins any less fluky than Sasha's, though? The fact they happened on PPVs is merely coincidence. Charlotte has only managed one successful defense and a double countout draw the whole time this feud has been going. Her title reign lengths aren't much better, only boosted by the one she had coming in from WrestleMania. All I know is, the wider fanbase won't consider Banks ANYWHERE NEAR AS DONE as many of us seem to want to believe. Charlotte held the divas title/women's title for about a year. She already proved herself to be able to hold onto it and defend it unlike Sasha. Sasha spent most of her first year not doing much between small pushes and disappearing for months. Then, when she finally got something consistent, the WWE kept repeating the same story. "Such a feel good moment for Sasha accomplishing her childhood Dream" and then Charlotte crashes Sasha back into reality a few weeks later. They repeated this 3 times and now it seems Charlotte finally won with the no-rematch clause. Maybe Sasha isn't a fluke, but she certainly looked inferior to Charlotte for the last couple of months. Anyways, I don't think it'll hurt Sasha with the audience in the long run, but I still think she came out looking really bad. Not just because of the potato booking, but a combination of bad segments and a dull to nonexistent storyline. Charlotte didn't benefit from the feud either, but at least she had a year long push before this.
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Dec 19, 2016 5:04:23 GMT -5
At this stage I just lol. I want Charlotte and Sasha to continue this pattern for ever now. It's almost becoming a self-parody of wrestling. Move all the other women over to SD's division and make that the actual women's division and let Charlotte & Sasha just trade this title back and forth twice a month until the end of their careers, it'd be a great laugh.
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