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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Dec 20, 2016 18:05:54 GMT -5
Is it an all-time great feud? No. Is it the greatest female rivalry in the WWE ever? Quite possibly yes. Lita/Trish is the only other one I can think of but I think this one surpasses that as while Trish and Lita had a few really good matches they spent most of their careers doing other stuff and their actual feud isn't as good or as long as people think it was. I kind of liked that aspect of Lita/Trish. They'd get involved with other people over the years but you knew at some point one of them was going to be like "Oh, THIS bitch again!" I think they even traded roles at some point, with them switching who was the fiery babyface and who was the super catty heel. If I'm not mistaken, one of them may have actually successfully defended the Women's Title against her rival at some point as well! That, to me at least is what, makes a great rivalry; just an undying desire to beat them no matter what the reason or how long ago they feud started..not just having a bunch of matches and trading a title back and forth. By that rationale, Kofi Kingston/Dolph Ziggler is the greatest Intercontinental title feud ever.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 20, 2016 18:37:08 GMT -5
Funny thing is, in Lita and Stratus's last three singles matches against each other, the belt changed hands every time. Lita won it in their RAW main event in late 2004, Stratus won it back at New Year's Revolution (although that might have been on the fly since Lita blew out her knee) and then a year and a half later, after both had switched alignments and Lita had gotten the belt back with Mickie James as the "transitional" champion of sorts, Stratus beat her for it at Unforgiven and retired.
Each only managed one successful title defense and a DQ retention against the other in seven singles title matches over the course of seven years.
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MAGGLE
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Post by MAGGLE on Dec 21, 2016 3:24:56 GMT -5
Funny thing is, in Lita and Stratus's last three singles matches against each other, the belt changed hands every time. Lita won it in their RAW main event in late 2004, Stratus won it back at New Year's Revolution (although that might have been on the fly since Lita blew out her knee) and then a year and a half later, after both had switched alignments and Lita had gotten the belt back with Mickie James as the "transitional" champion of sorts, Stratus beat her for it at Unforgiven and retired. Each only managed one successful title defense and a DQ retention against the other in seven singles title matches over the course of seven years. And dont forget that both of them in ring wise are like khali compared to Banks/Charlotte
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Dec 21, 2016 3:32:36 GMT -5
The greatest women's rivalry is Paige vs. clothes that cover her whole body. Its an epic feud.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 4:01:47 GMT -5
I think it HAS been the greatest women's rivalry of all time.
Trish/Lita and Kaitlyn/AJ don't touch the matches these girls have had. I've seen them all, and Trish/Lita is a perfect example of how people conflate a finish they like or a moment that impressed them with solid matches. I don't think any of their matches were particularly good. But Sasha and Charlotte? I've enjoyed all of them barring Summerslam. Fantastic feud between two evenly matched wrestlers. I'm ready to see them move on too, mind you. The Iron Man match was the appropriate ending because it's always been a feud about WRESTLING and proving superiority. Not just hurting the other person. I wish they would shut up about HISTORY too, but the actual wrestling? Awesome.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Woo on Dec 21, 2016 5:20:58 GMT -5
I think it HAS been the greatest women's rivalry of all time. *WWE womens rivalry of course. If we include other promotions it would feature very low.
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segaz
Samurai Cop
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Post by segaz on Dec 21, 2016 7:40:43 GMT -5
While the matches and promo skills might be ok, the storytelling is not. If you are gonna have a continuous series of matches between competitors then you better tell it right.
The 'rivalry' needs more fire to it and the matches themselves need to keep evolving, and not just with gimmicks. By the third match they should know each other pretty well to be able to counter most of the moves, so why not change it up? Have one of them get tips on brawling from Austin and work similar to his style, bringing a fresh aggressive style that the other can't deal with. Or get tips from Taker and challenge the other to a casket match. In a no dq match, have one of them handcuff the other to get the pin. Been done before, but it demonstrates the lengths one will go to in order to get the win. Use limb specific injuries in order to stop the match and have the other work it all through the match dominating totally from the get go. Or make the match gimmicks interesting. Work them into the story. I'd rather have one of them be afraid of heights and put in a ladder match. That at least would get my attention.
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Post by captainhindsite on Dec 21, 2016 9:18:32 GMT -5
For all the complaints at least it's not one minute nikki bella matches
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 21, 2016 10:29:14 GMT -5
If it is, that's more of a condemnation of the other women's rivalries in the WWE than praise for it.
because the storytelling has just been completely botched.
However, I'd put Becky vs. Sasha (which basically made Becky) or Sasha vs. Bailey in NXT (so still technically the WWE) way above this rivalry.
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Jeff Mangum PI
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Dec 21, 2016 12:16:58 GMT -5
Wait, so whining about Sheamus vs Del Rio going on for an eternity is allowed but suddenly Sasha and Charlotte are above criticism? That ain't how it works.
This feud should've ended at WrestleMania. Back in MARCH. But here we are in December with it just now ending. There's just a point where too much is too much no matter how good it is. Bryan and Orton had a great feud in 2013 until they started doing matches and f***-finishes every week on every PPV. You're supposed to leave fans wanting more, not shoving the same match down their throats for over a year.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 21, 2016 12:19:05 GMT -5
Wait, so whining about Sheamus vs Del Rio going on for an eternity is allowed but suddenly Sasha and Charlotte are above criticism? That ain't how it works. This feud should've ended at WrestleMania. Back in MARCH. But here we are in December with it just now ending. There's just a point where too much is too much no matter how good it is. Bryan and Orton had a great feud in 2013 until they started doing matches and f***-finishes every week on every PPV. You're supposed to leave fans wanting more, not shoving the same match down their throats for over a year. I don't think it needed to end in March, but it has been going on for like 10 months at this point.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Dec 21, 2016 12:34:26 GMT -5
The argument " they are equal so makes sense to change hands so often" is bad, really weak.
A lot of things make sense that would still be bad booking. You do the switch one time or two at most.
Sasha sounds like a joke when she can't ever defend the title
Charlotte started the feud champion and ended champion. Nothing even progressed.
Even if you wanna swap the titles. FIND NEW WAYS. They repeated the same story every month.
Given. I stopped watching raw , just sticking to reading spoilers , ao maybe it worked better than it sounds.
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Post by cabbageboy on Dec 21, 2016 12:37:18 GMT -5
WWE just doesn't have enough women to do 2 women's divisions. Having a dozen active wrestlers over two different shows is just not a good idea. In Raw's case the thinness of the roster is everywhere. Think about this. Take away women's segments. Take away cruisers. What exactly IS Raw's actual roster? The main event scene is literally four guys, one of whom isn't a serious threat (Jericho). There is no secondary title division because Reigns is U.S. champ and is main eventing. The tag division has some teams in it but only a couple are over in the least.
Raw's problem really is that the show just leaves the viewer so utterly unhappy at all times. Take the last PPV for instance. You had the heel go over in the women's title match after a ridiculous finish to regulation (tapping with 2 seconds left??), and a screwjob DQ in the main event that allowed the heel to retain. Even the New Day thing lacks a certain perspective since I am unsure if I was supposed to want to see them break the record or not (I didn't for the record).
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Post by Big Bad Kahuna on Dec 21, 2016 13:19:28 GMT -5
The argument " they are equal so makes sense to change hands so often" is bad, really weak. Tell me why. Just saying stuff doesn't make a statement work. Got any fact to back it up? It isn't a story when the title switches hands a few times? How about the oh-so-beloved Attitude Era?
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Post by Big Bad Kahuna on Dec 21, 2016 13:20:39 GMT -5
Given. I stopped watching raw , just sticking to reading spoilers , ao maybe it worked better than it sounds. Huh
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Dec 21, 2016 13:25:08 GMT -5
Given. I stopped watching raw , just sticking to reading spoilers , ao maybe it worked better than it sounds. Huh I thought it was fair to say it , so people can chose to take it seriously or.not. The fair thing to do, I stop wanna say my piece tho
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Dec 21, 2016 13:39:30 GMT -5
I think you need to establish someone as dominant in order to get this division going. I just don't think parity sells. Some may think it isn't analogous but I think it is for showing how women can build themselves into ticket sellers - the UFC Women's Bantamweight Championship was at its height when Ronda was beating every challenger and no one could touch her. The title has been hopping around left and right since and no one is a star because everyone has been beaten. This isn't to say that you can't have title changes. You just need to keep someone looking like a champion (because unlike MMA, you can do non-clean finishes). Austin lost the belt fairly frequently but he always came out looking just fine. This feud has essentially said that each is about even with each other. I do not even buy Charlotte as that much better at the end of the day just because she won the total feud count by a score of 12-11. She has been beaten a ton by Sasha and now a ton by Bayley (who has been beaten by Nia Jax). Protecting no one does not ensure everyone gets over. I think it does quite the opposite.
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zappa
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Post by zappa on Dec 21, 2016 13:42:41 GMT -5
It's all so forced the funny thing is the bra and panties era was actually more authentic than this.
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